79 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

o0Marduk0o, on 11 April 2015 - 11:37 PM, said:

Firemoth has barely any weapon load. It wouldn't be a good choice.

bad arcade kitty, on 13 April 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

>Firemoth has barely any weapon load.

"A simple harasser and guerrilla warfare specialist, the Fire Moth D simply utilizes five ER Medium Lasers..."

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dasher

really barely any weapon load :3

5 tons of pod space, 6 E hardpoints available, 4 if you take a Jesus Box.

It has more TrueDubs than the Myth Lynx since it has a 200 engine, but no JJs.

4 ERMLs and ECM would be hot, but potentially acceptable. 6 ERSLs would be adequate, competing with the Locusts (albeit considerably more fragile leg wise, with a cXL)

[Widowmaker1981]

Nightshade24, on 14 April 2015 - 03:45 PM, said:

Yes but you here's the few key points the Firemoth surpases the locust.

1) it goes the same speed without speed tweak as a locust with max engine with speed tweak, then throw in the MASC and you got something that makes a locust jelly.

2) Clan lasers have extra range over a normal IS laser (minus stupid quirks that are over 35%). In a locust to run 6 small lasers you need to get close to be effective while in the clan mech not so much. even then you can get close much faster so that if you put 2 and 2 together it can be already behind you when you saw that flash of red light at the mid distance a split second ago. (True these lasers have additional heat, but the firemoth hits the sweet spot on not over doing it with ghost heat at 7+ and also it has the tonnage and DHS to keep it cool unlike some certain other clanners)

Also Locust can't do certain builds using machine guns that the firemoth can do.

3) when the locust does some of the builds above, it rather A) lacks the ammo, or B.) reduced armour.

Both are 20 ton mechs performing a similar role, of course there will be some simularities! just look at the Hellbringer and Warhammer for eg or the Mad Dog and Catapult!

However there are some clear characteristics of the firemoth that is bette rover the locust and another one is the very high weapon mounts on the firemoth, potentially it can only reveal 3% of it's mech over a ridge to attack an enemy mech and for the enemy to relaliate they have to shoot at 2 little arms that from there angle is the same as trying to get a head shot. now if your moving evne slightly back and forward with the insane acceleration they will be better of dumb firing LRM's on another mech then trying to focus you down.

Also keep in mind that in this circumstance, we are compairing max armour firemoth vs mid armour locust. If we cut the armour down on the locust a LOT more fun can be had. for eg 4 medium pulse, 2 SRM 6's. etc.

We cant have the Firemoth because the speed limit in this game for HSR is ~170kph and it completely smashes that limit into tiny pieces.

The Fire Moth will never be added to this game, forget about it.

You cant have 2 Dires in CW, sorry. Closest you'll be able to do is wait until the Turkina is released and take 2 of those with 2 Mist Lynx.

[Nightshade24]

Widowmaker1981, on 15 April 2015 - 01:25 AM, said:

We cant have the Firemoth because the speed limit in this game for HSR is ~170kph and it completely smashes that limit into tiny pieces.

The Fire Moth will never be added to this game, forget about it.

You cant have 2 Dires in CW, sorry. Closest you'll be able to do is wait until the Turkina is released and take 2 of those with 2 Mist Lynx.

This is just theory talk if it will get in game. The topic is that it doesn't have enough firepower and isn't worth it and I proved otherwise. Game limitations isn't in equation here.

It's like theory crafting on the habatility of say kepler 186f, the first most earth-like planet discovered. In this instance, we are discussing about if it's possible to live on this planet. We are not trying to answer the question or face the problem that is distance between it. Simply saying "We will never get to it, it's quite a few light years away and we'll never even be able to send a probe there, just forget it" doesn't really aid much in the particular topic.

Again, this is mainly about the firepower, speed, and armour of the Firemoth, not it coming into game. We all know it'll not happen any time soon because of speed limit, same with flea.

(post speed tweak)
Commando IIC (106.7 kph)
Locust IIC (142.5 kph)
Jenner IIC (166.1 kph)
Urbanmech IIC (59.5 kph)
Wolfhound IIC. (107 kph NOTE: this thing is famous for the high armour of weight class for both IS and Clan. Armour quirks here is as logical as having a PPC quirk for the vindicator)

4 lights I would be interested in and keep in mind these are BATTLEMECHS, they can change engine and stuff...

(Note: PGI is working on IIC's and practically all IIC's are outside of timeline so I am hoping for a conjoined exp pool with normal counterparts... for eg.

Jenner exp tree:
Jenner F, Jenner D, Jenner K, Jenner IIC 1, Jenner IIC 2, etc. )


These guys would take the crown for most effective clan lights most likely. I am hyped for the IIC jenner and locust a bit.

[NUJRSYDEVIL]

I'm all for the Firemoth, it was a very fun mech in MW2. I could see how 2ERML/SRM-6 could be attractive while running at 180+kph

[dragnier1]

I'm thinking if you have run cicadas you should be able to do well in the ice ferret as well. They seem pretty similar (can't be certain since i don't own cicadas)

[Shadey99]

Nightshade24, on 14 April 2015 - 03:45 PM, said:

Yes but you here's the few key points the Firemoth surpases the locust.

1) it goes the same speed without speed tweak as a locust with max engine with speed tweak, then throw in the MASC and you got something that makes a locust jelly.

2) Clan lasers have extra range over a normal IS laser (minus stupid quirks that are over 35%). In a locust to run 6 small lasers you need to get close to be effective while in the clan mech not so much. even then you can get close much faster so that if you put 2 and 2 together it can be already behind you when you saw that flash of red light at the mid distance a split second ago. (True these lasers have additional heat, but the firemoth hits the sweet spot on not over doing it with ghost heat at 7+ and also it has the tonnage and DHS to keep it cool unlike some certain other clanners)

Also Locust can't do certain builds using machine guns that the firemoth can do.

3) when the locust does some of the builds above, it rather A) lacks the ammo, or B.) reduced armour.

Both are 20 ton mechs performing a similar role, of course there will be some simularities! just look at the Hellbringer and Warhammer for eg or the Mad Dog and Catapult!

However there are some clear characteristics of the firemoth that is bette rover the locust and another one is the very high weapon mounts on the firemoth, potentially it can only reveal 3% of it's mech over a ridge to attack an enemy mech and for the enemy to relaliate they have to shoot at 2 little arms that from there angle is the same as trying to get a head shot. now if your moving evne slightly back and forward with the insane acceleration they will be better of dumb firing LRM's on another mech then trying to focus you down.

Also keep in mind that in this circumstance, we are compairing max armour firemoth vs mid armour locust. If we cut the armour down on the locust a LOT more fun can be had. for eg 4 medium pulse, 2 SRM 6's. etc.

Actually if MASC is added then Locust variants can gain MASC as well (It would also give us the Flea since MASC and that high speed is the only thing holding it back), so the only speed edge to the Firemoth would be from having a 200XL rather than a 190XL. While there is a range edge to all clan weapons, it's not big an edge for our Firemoth (At least if we max it's armor). The only reason the stock firemoth can mount 6.75 tons of weapons is the lack of armor and for MWO it would need to max itself out (Glancing shots from lasers would wear it down otherwise).

Looking at the mechs from a pure rules standpoint they are both 20 ton mechs with Endo, FF, and DHS giving them both the maximum of tonnage to use for other systems. However the 200 XL is a half ton heavier (heatsinks factored in). Also the Firemoth has to have MASC which is another 1 ton, so by default it's got 1.5 tons less weapons. So it's not hard for a Locust 1E to run 6 ML, but the Firemoth may have to stick to ER SLs to mount as many lasers. The ML still out ranges the ER SL and does more damage, so the slight speed edge the Dasher can get is limited by it's weapons load. The only advantage the clan mech would have is the cheap weight of the clan SRMs and LRMS compared to IS ones, so Locusts like the 3S have to devout more weight to SRMS/LRMS than the Firemoth would.

Oh and the Locust has high mounted weapons as well with the weapons being at cockpit level. The Firemoths may be over it's head, but the difference for most players is going to be low.

[Shadey99]

dragnier1, on 15 April 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:

I'm thinking if you have run cicadas you should be able to do well in the ice ferret as well. They seem pretty similar (can't be certain since i don't own cicadas)

As crazy as it sounds, the Stormcrow plays a lot like the Cicada. The Cicada may be faster, but weapons wise they feel very much alike and the Storm crow feels like a fast medium as it can break 100 kph (with speed tweak). The big difference between the two is that the Cicada can hill hump and the low slung weapons on the Storm Crow are better suited to poking around hills than humping them.

[InspectorG]

dragnier1, on 15 April 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:

I'm thinking if you have run cicadas you should be able to do well in the ice ferret as well. They seem pretty similar (can't be certain since i don't own cicadas)

I dont think they are very similar.

The benefit of the Cicadais the speed and Stlkaer-like hardpoints. It can peek like a boss. ferret doesnt seem to be able to.

[Nightshade24]

Shadey99, on 15 April 2015 - 04:20 AM, said:

Actually if MASC is added then Locust variants can gain MASC as well (It would also give us the Flea since MASC and that high speed is the only thing holding it back), so the only speed edge to the Firemoth would be from having a 200XL rather than a 190XL. While there is a range edge to all clan weapons, it's not big an edge for our Firemoth (At least if we max it's armor). The only reason the stock firemoth can mount 6.75 tons of weapons is the lack of armor and for MWO it would need to max itself out (Glancing shots from lasers would wear it down otherwise).

Looking at the mechs from a pure rules standpoint they are both 20 ton mechs with Endo, FF, and DHS giving them both the maximum of tonnage to use for other systems. However the 200 XL is a half ton heavier (heatsinks factored in). Also the Firemoth has to have MASC which is another 1 ton, so by default it's got 1.5 tons less weapons. So it's not hard for a Locust 1E to run 6 ML, but the Firemoth may have to stick to ER SLs to mount as many lasers. The ML still out ranges the ER SL and does more damage, so the slight speed edge the Dasher can get is limited by it's weapons load. The only advantage the clan mech would have is the cheap weight of the clan SRMs and LRMS compared to IS ones, so Locusts like the 3S have to devout more weight to SRMS/LRMS than the Firemoth would.

Oh and the Locust has high mounted weapons as well with the weapons being at cockpit level. The Firemoths may be over it's head, but the difference for most players is going to be low.

We are not sure if MASC will be added the same way ECM is added or the same way as Double AMS.
I think it's limited t o certain mechs because the Flea is not gonna be added due to the MASC speed reason and since the MASC is coming to game I doubt the Locust magically ignored that rule now.
However comparing the Flea to the Firemoth the Firemoth will still be faster then the Flea if hte flea is restricted to a similar engine cap.

Also 6 medium lasers on a locust were never a good idea before or after quirks. I will doubt someone would run that after the firemoth introduction.

[RabidAaron]

Perhaps a Solitaire would have been a better choice.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Solitaire

[Shadey99]

Nightshade24, on 15 April 2015 - 03:21 PM, said:

Also 6 medium lasers on a locust were never a good idea before or after quirks. I will doubt someone would run that after the firemoth introduction.

I do great in a 6xML Locust 1E. I mastered my 1E from nothing using just that build. Then again I used a 5xML build on my 3M when I mastered it on the Locust release and if anything the all arm mounted lasers make the 1E much stronger at both hill humping and side peeking than the 3M.

As for ML vs SPL/SL... Well I've found the ability to project at least minimal damage out to ~500m can be a great help. Say the closest you can safely get to a target is ~400m away from it where there is a ridge. Well with SL or SPL you have to sprint through that open area and get much closer. With MLs you don't need to. They might not hit for full damage at 400m, but they do hit and do some damage and leaves you with full cover. It's hilarious to see them turn around to see what hit them in the back, but I'm safely behind a hill and they see nothing.

[Banditman]

The biggest problem Clan mechs have right now is that their best Light is the Ice Ferret. Yes, the Ice Ferret. That's the mech currently capable of filling the role that MWO says a Light mech should occupy.

If you haven't tried playing the IF as a Light yet, you will probably be pleasantly surprised at how good it is in the role. The reason I believe you don't see it more is because in a typical Clan drop deck you don't need those tons. If you simply wanted to have a wave of Light type mechs in a Clan deck you would probably go something like Timber, Hellbringer, Stormcrow, Ice Ferret as opposed to the usual Timber, Stormcrow x3.

[bad arcade kitty]

isn't ice ferret too big for that role though
it's fast enough, yeah

[Repasy Cooper]

bad arcade kitty, on 16 April 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

isn't ice ferret too big for that role though
it's fast enough, yeah

Man, a while ago I dropped with CWI and our whole first wave was Ice Ferrets. On paper that seems like a bad move, but we wrecked the **** out of the enemy, first wave all gens down. If the 1st wave didn't finish the job so well, there were three more mixed waves of Timber Wolves, Hellbringers, and Stormcrows.

[Nightshade24]

Shadey99, on 16 April 2015 - 03:30 AM, said:

I do great in a 6xML Locust 1E. I mastered my 1E from nothing using just that build. Then again I used a 5xML build on my 3M when I mastered it on the Locust release and if anything the all arm mounted lasers make the 1E much stronger at both hill humping and side peeking than the 3M.

As for ML vs SPL/SL... Well I've found the ability to project at least minimal damage out to ~500m can be a great help. Say the closest you can safely get to a target is ~400m away from it where there is a ridge. Well with SL or SPL you have to sprint through that open area and get much closer. With MLs you don't need to. They might not hit for full damage at 400m, but they do hit and do some damage and leaves you with full cover. It's hilarious to see them turn around to see what hit them in the back, but I'm safely behind a hill and they see nothing.

usually why I got 1-2 medium lasers and a few small lasers or small pulse.

[Nightshade24]

RabidAaron, on 16 April 2015 - 02:10 AM, said:

Perhaps a Solitaire would have been a better choice.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Solitaire

timeline issues ;n;

[bad arcade kitty]

it even uses a heavy large laser which doesn't exist yet too

[Richard Hazen]

Pariah Devalis, on 13 April 2015 - 05:51 AM, said:

The adder is no joke.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8ea8b2352c898d0

If you see this mech up close, do not ignore it. Of course, people always do. However, it is bringing a whole new world of pain. A veritable cornucopia of misery. Obviously range limited, but in its range bracket it absolutely demolishes enemy mechs. Only due to Hit Detection is it weak against faster, smaller light mechs. However, against anything larger? Not only will you be ignored if you come with friends, but you will be pumping out damage like no tomorrow.

On the flip side, if you want to stay at range, I love this configuration:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e1257861d3da834

Again, if you stick with allies you will almost be guaranteed to be ignored. Even if you are not, this thing can, has, and will put down IS mediums in a shootout. You can shift the head/left arm armor around a bit, but that left arm is a shield arm. With this configuration it is essentially a 15 ton lighter Yen-Lo-Wang with a much smaller profile and superior hill humping capabilities. If you are a good shot with a gauss rifle, you can even defend yourself pretty adequately against enemy light mechs. 15 PPFLD makes firestarters cry every time.

I'm new to the game and the first mech I got was an adder, I think I'll try this builds out (Just found how to get artemis)

Edited by Deimos Alpha, 02 May 2015 - 02:26 AM.

[Nightshade24]

Nightshade24, on 09 April 2015 - 06:17 PM, said:

Clan lights peform kinda like an urbanmech, panther, and the wolfhound if that guy is ever released.

They all need T5 quirks but PGI sure hates clan mechs and go extra super dupper cautious.

meanwhile ER PPC thunderbolt monstrosities and chain-gun LRM's are apparently a-okay in the PGI HQ. I have no idea how those guys slipped by.

I know they are working hard and love the game but it's already known all of them love IS and they just see the clans from the buisness end so to say.

When you always look at said guys from the gun barrel pointing to your face you do not really have the same opinion when you are there helping him limp back to the infirmary or watch it get smashed on the side walk.

juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust copy pasting this because Wolfhound now coming in game ^^ I knew this lil fella will be in game. now lets hope the playstyle of the previous games of being a heavily armoured light mech will be in game...

[bad arcade kitty]

Deimos Alpha, on 02 May 2015 - 02:21 AM, said:

I'm new to the game and the first mech I got was an adder, I think I'll try this builds out (Just found how to get artemis)

try streaks (s-srm) instead of srm (with artemis too), easier to use (but the damage is more smeared, still 4 * 6 (cap + 3 tonnes of ammo, rather low on ammo) or 3*6 + 1*4 (cap + 4 tonnes of ammo) streak boat it's a serious threat, streak crows have 5 * 6 and people constantly call them op and ask to 'balance')
you will need to pick an active probe (cap) then though because streaks need lock to be fired and ecm will ruin your day without it
or tag... but streak adder doesn't have a hardpoint for it, if you could throw away that flamer... (:

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 02 May 2015 - 05:16 AM.