186 replies to this topic

[Burktross]

Nayru, on 11 April 2015 - 11:53 AM, said:

Why no endo? Use the 3 tons to upgrade the AC/10 to a Gauss with 40 shots, or add 2 tons AC/10 ammo + DHS.

And is it me or are you missing two points of armor?

Build flexibility really. I don't have the spacebucks to constantly change endo for different configs.

[Jacobei]

Terciel1976, on 11 April 2015 - 09:40 AM, said:

If you don't view the FS9 (and especially the FS9-S) as one of the very best lights right now, I have a great deal of trouble taking you seriously as a light pilot.

I don't, I found it overheated and is weapon cool down took it out of combat before I could do any damage. I found limited uses for it. It failed mostly vs other lights.

Edited by Jacobei, 11 April 2015 - 12:26 PM.

[MilesTeg1982]

Jacobei, on 11 April 2015 - 09:17 AM, said:

I would like to see:

1. Alpha strike combat suppressed - more,faster negative overheating effects

2. Another class of lights that cost 7-15million and are more combat then support. - I believe this would bring Mediums back in as they are the best to combat lights (without alpha). I also believe this would make Heavies and Assaults fit to combat smaller faster targets and be more in tune with the MW experience. I know some with the "alpha win button" setup would complain but in the end it would diversify the game a bit more instead of directing people to pilot heavier and heavier mechs that smash one button at each other.

I'm a bit curious - how many matches in total (just look into your stats) have you played in total? And have you ever played a heavy or assault mech? Don't take this wrong, but from what you wrote I am under the impression that you 1. don't have much experience in generall and very low experience (if any) in heavies/assaults.

1. lights are also able to do high alpha strikes - espeacially the firestarter. Also keep in mind - in MWO you should never(!) stand still - no matter which mech you pilot and espeacially not in a lightmech.

2. there are hit registration issues in the game which do favour fast mechs, espeacially the really fast IS-lights. That goes to the point where people hit spiders and firestarters with multiple rounds of gauss, ppcs, lasers, srm and doing virtually no or very low damage. You don't believe that? try running through an enemie group in a spider and then do the same with a medium/heavie/assault - guess which survives the longest - and no that is not because people can't aim.

3. Seriously I can not understand why you consider the firestarter to hot and then say you do use the kiffox (which is a clanmech and much hotter than any IS-mech)

imho: your request is biased

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Jacobei, on 11 April 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

I don't, I found it overheated and is weapon cool down took it out of combat before I could do any damage. I found limited uses for it. It failed mostly vs other lights.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Burktross, on 11 April 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

<jackie chan meme pic.

I've long since accepted the fact that this Abisha character has no idea what they are talking about, or is a decent subtlety troll.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Jacobei, on 11 April 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

I don't, I found it overheated and is weapon cool down took it out of combat before I could do any damage. I found limited uses for it. It failed mostly vs other lights.

The Space Pope would like to know what combination and quantity of drugs you have partaken in to come to the conclusion that the Firestarter fails against other light mechs...

Honestly, the only reason to use any other light is for
A. Flavor/fun
B. You need ECM
C. You wish to snipe with Large Lasers/PPC

And even then you are probably going to be able to do much more damage just going with a FS.

The Space Pope understands that the people can have differing views, but he really can't see in what situation anyone would bet against a Firestarter when it is fighting another light mech (unless you are examining to pilots of marked skill difference).

-------------

On the flip side, it would be nice for lights to have something of importance to do other than kill stuff, but that is a map/game problem and not necessarily one related to light mechs in particular. Look at the medium mechs who end up in a similarly bad position due to the limited focus of this game.

Secondly, it would be interesting if there was some benefit with rolling with lower tonnage mechs (i.e. you get more of them).

Edited by The True Space Pope, 11 April 2015 - 12:48 PM.

[TercieI]

Jacobei, on 11 April 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

I don't, I found it overheated and is weapon cool down took it out of combat before I could do any damage. I found limited uses for it. It failed mostly vs other lights.

Then I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this, but you're not a good light pilot. Every top light pilot in this game drives Firestarters as their primary now. Since the Quirkenings, even the most ardent Jenner drivers have converted. Firestarters are all you see at top levels of play. The RVN-2X and the SRM heroes have places but they're different animals. For a mainstay light, it's only Firestarters.

[Telmasa]

FupDup, on 11 April 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

Long story short, MWO inherits the Battletech situation of higher mech tonnage = better.

You used lights (or mediums) in BT when you didn't have enough spacebucks to maintain a heavy or assault. If you did have that money, you didn't really use lights or mediums, because they were less effective (assuming equal tech/optimization/etc).

Also, because you commanded a small force instead of a single unit, you could simply outnumber the enemy fatties. A Zergling might not beat a Zealot in 1 on 1, but you could have a lot more Zerglings than your enemy could have Zealots.

This doesn't apply in MWO because you only get 12 mechs at a time, so we need to make Zerglings actually as viable as Zealots. So far PGI has made more attempts at this than previous MW games, but still hasn't fully succeeded at it.

Yeah, cause right now certain kinds of Zerglings have been given free god-mode Quirk powers and can easily overwhelm the Zealots...not to mention the maps & light-speed-hit-registration-lag-thing generally allow the Zerglings to rush for the HQ with impunity.

So you're right, but not because light mechs are too weak.

Terciel1976, on 11 April 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

Then I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this, but you're not a good light pilot. Every top light pilot in this game drives Firestarters as their primary now. Since the Quirkenings, even the most ardent Jenner drivers have converted. Firestarters are all you see at top levels of play. The RVN-2X and the SRM heroes have places but they're different animals. For a mainstay light, it's only Firestarters.

Ooooor he simply doesn't subscribe to the quirkening/metacheese bandwagon like everyone else.

And I see plenty Jenners & non-3L Ravens running around still; they still have the speed, after all.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Telmasa, on 11 April 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

Ooooor he simply doesn't subscribe to the quirkening/metacheese bandwagon like everyone else.

And I see plenty Jenners & non-3L Ravens running around still; they still have the speed, after all.

You do know that you can quite easily play non-meta builds or mechs, without having to pretend they are superior or as good?

The Space Pope still pilots his Jenner F, but he isn't going to suggest that it is the better choice compared to the FS.

Edited by The True Space Pope, 11 April 2015 - 01:11 PM.

[TercieI]

Telmasa, on 11 April 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

Ooooor he simply doesn't subscribe to the quirkening/metacheese bandwagon like everyone else.

And I see plenty Jenners &amp; non-3L Ravens running around still; they still have the speed, after all.

He stated that he didn't think the FS9 was as good... It's not about preference (I still prefer the Jenner)

And the RVN-3L is the third best Raven now. That may be why you see the others now.

Edited by Terciel1976, 11 April 2015 - 08:17 PM.

[Ghogiel]

Jacobei, on 11 April 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

It failed mostly vs other lights.

No. You failed mostly.

[Jacobei]

Terciel1976, on 11 April 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

He stated that he didn't think the FS9 was as good... It's not about prefeeence (I still prefer the Jenner)

And the RVN-3L is the third best Raven now. That may be why you see the others now.

No I just found in my own experience with it and fighting it. The discussion about it is part of the reason I made this thread.

Ghogiel, on 11 April 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

No. You failed mostly.

No I continually bet them in my spider or kitfox

[TercieI]

Jacobei, on 11 April 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

No I just found in my own experience with it and fighting it. The discussion about it is part of the reason I made this thread.



No I continually bet them in my spider or kitfox

Then, and this will be my last post because I don't want to be mean, but I'm having trouble avoiding it, you're playing against low skill players. Equal skill, the FS9-S should beat any other light 1 on 1.

Edited by Terciel1976, 11 April 2015 - 01:25 PM.

[Satan n stuff]

Terciel1976, on 11 April 2015 - 01:25 PM, said:

Then, and this will be my last post because I don't want to be mean, but I'm having trouble avoiding it, you're playing against low skill players. Equal skill, the FS9-S should beat any other light 1 on 1.

Strangely enough, Urbies have a bit of an edge against them due to their torso twist, you can more easily keep your distance while shooting at them, but unless you can place your damage well enough to kill them quickly they'll just chase you down and kill you.
Fortunately I'm pretty good at placing damage where I want it and 2-3 solid sidetorso hits will do the job.

[InspectorG]

Satan n stuff, on 11 April 2015 - 01:32 PM, said:

Strangely enough, Urbies have a bit of an edge against them due to their torso twist, you can more easily keep your distance while shooting at them, but unless you can place your damage well enough to kill them quickly they'll just chase you down and kill you.
Fortunately I'm pretty good at placing damage where I want it and 2-3 solid sidetorso hits will do the job.

Nah, just burn the main laser arm off the urbie, who cares if it can spin round.

If they are running stock engine+ Big AC they likely wont be able to turn fast enough.

[Burktross]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 11 April 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

I've long since accepted the fact that this Abisha character has no idea what they are talking about, or is a decent subtlety troll.

I figured as much, but the Resistance badge provides good cover.

[Jacobei]

Terciel1976, on 11 April 2015 - 01:25 PM, said:

Then, and this will be my last post because I don't want to be mean, but I'm having trouble avoiding it, you're playing against low skill players. Equal skill, the FS9-S should beat any other light 1 on 1.

I will try the FS9-S again...

I am being honest. My spider chases them down with speed, and I can circle them limiting their chest weapons. They can't keep the fight on, they mostly over heat trying to get a light alpha on me. FS9 pilots that do take me down do so by crippling themselves. The MG allow me to keep the fight on and I have 0 overheat issues. Where are all of these top tier light FS9 pilots hiding?

[Impossible Wasabi]

How are they not wrecking you as you try to circle strafe them? Are you not dropping against good players or good groups?

Generally if a Spider tries to do anything but play "poke wars", then the Space Pope pretty much has a guaranteed kill in a couple of shots (arms alone would be more than enough) or perhaps one good alpha to a leg. Nor does it really result in much damage being suffered.

That doesn't even require a particularly deep amount of tactics or skill, just "charge Spider, shoot spider 2-3 times, watch Spider fall apart".

IDK, the Space Pope is just confused by your experiences, pretty much his own experiences indicate that even an average pilot in a FS will absolutely pummel a good Spider pilot, unless the FS pilot commits some major mistakes (i.e. stands still and tries to turret or doesn't pay attention can gets his/her armor opened up before engaging).

The Space Pope isn't even trying to insult you, but he doesn't understand what ELO you are in where a FS pilot finds hitting a Spider to be difficult, especially in a "circle strafe" duel.

Edited by The True Space Pope, 11 April 2015 - 03:03 PM.

[ArchSight]

Just wait tell the Arctic Cheatah comes out. Your list will grow. It has a possible 7 energy hardpoints or missile/ballistic hardpoints. It can mount ECM. That ECM opens up a specific tactic that can save your teammates. Has jump jets. It can boat energy weapons that do more damage than IS firestarter weapons. Streak 6's to help with light killing. It can be heat efficient by using shorter ranged clan weapons because of it's speed. Plus, the shorter range clan weapons are light on tonnage.

Defiantly a whole new monster that's going to be a pain to keep a fair playing field with. It might become the only light mech worth using. PGI not nerfing the damage the clans do in some way is going to hurt when this mech comes out.

Before anyone sites the mist lynx remember it can't mount as much energy weapons as the arctic cheetah nor run as fast and have the same hit points. The clan energy weapons damage is the main reason why it wont be fair. Speed to reliable get close enough to do the maximum damage that is possible with it's available tonnage and hard points. It's going to hurt when it arrives.

Maybe it will create a imbalance in public matchmaker where they'll be more light pilots than heavy and assault pilots.

Edited by ArchSight, 11 April 2015 - 03:44 PM.

[Mycrus]

Jacobei, on 11 April 2015 - 09:17 AM, said:

This is a call to all &quot;light&quot; pilots. To those who would claim themselves a light pilot overall and the extremist that focus 90-100% of their game play around piloting light mechs (me for example).

Summary:
1. Light pilot pub chat
2. Protest info

#1 PUB. I have tried many flavor of the month light builds. My honest opinion

Spider
Kitfox
Raven

Continue to be the most 'playable' light mechs when fitted correctly. I know the Firestarter is flavor of the month right now. But it fails with over heating and weapon cool down periods.

Now in theory (on paper) many fits are better, but in practice this is just not true for combat.

“In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.”
― Albert Einstein

#2 PROTEST: Light pilots specialists and forum support

Protest info: Ligh pilot specialists lets protest to open more specialised roles on the CW battle field. Who hates fielding a heavy or assault poorly just to field your lights.

A. Make drop weight by group not player.
OR
B. Lower the weight minimum limit for CW to allow lighter pilots to specialise. I would also allow meds.

We make MWO all about heavies and assaults alpha striking. The true MWO world was way more focused around lights and mediums (as many here know).

The other issue is &quot;NERF LIGHTS&quot; threads in forums. We need to actively work together to stomp this out. Their is no over use of light mechs because they are OP... These threads are mostly made by heavy pilots that fit to alpha strike others and get upset when lights absorb this. Here is some lore in-game reasons lights absorb damage.

1. It is an easy game code to simulate the true strength of lights SPEED and SIZE. Your alpha strike was dodged because your trying to hit a target with a very small signature radius. Your PPC did not slam into 6x6 flat sheet of a heavy mech, the armor design and signature radius of the light made your large weapon less effective. *in other mech games you could not just alpha everything you needed a smaller faster cool down weapon to take out lights and tanks and jets. (Their is game lore to support it. )

2. The other factor here is speed (mentioned above). You fire an alpha at a light moving 130km and expect the same DPS effect of your weapons like when you hit a huge target that is motionless or moving 30km. Even the slightest Light movement would decrease your weapons effect - targeting ability. I shift a bit hitting 50km moving 5M to the right within the time you fire your weapon and you would not hit me with 100% damage.

Damage migration can be expected when speed, size, armor angling play a part. MWO is not coding all these individual effects but it works out in the end.

Again their is no swarm of OP lights plaguing this game. Heavier pilots with skill can easily kill a light pilot with equal skill in 1-2 alphas in MWO. Due to the nature of how MWO makes money - Heavier mechs cost more, you can expect lights to be cannon fodder.

I would like to see:

1. Alpha strike combat suppressed - more,faster negative overheating effects

2. Another class of lights that cost 7-15million and are more combat then support. - I believe this would bring Mediums back in as they are the best to combat lights (without alpha). I also believe this would make Heavies and Assaults fit to combat smaller faster targets and be more in tune with the MW experience. I know some with the &quot;alpha win button&quot; setup would complain but in the end it would diversify the game a bit more instead of directing people to pilot heavier and heavier mechs that smash one button at each other.

Too many words...

You arent a light pilot unless

A.) You actually like the commando

B.) Mastered 3 locusts.

ps. Lights are fine... l2p