186 replies to this topic

[Impossible Wasabi]

ArchSight, on 11 April 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

Just wait tell the Arctic Cheatah comes out. Your list will grow. It has a possible 7 energy hardpoints or missile/ballistic hardpoints. It can mount ECM. That ECM opens up a specific tactic that can save your teammates. Has jump jets. It can boat energy weapons that do more damage than IS firestarter weapons. Streak 6's to help with light killing. It can be heat efficient by using shorter ranged clan weapons because of it's speed. Plus, the shorter range clan weapons are light on tonnage.

Defiantly a whole new monster that's going to be a pain to keep a fair playing field with. It might become the only light mech worth using. PGI not nerfing the damage the clans do in some way is going to hurt when this mech comes out.

Before anyone sites the mist lynx remember it can't mount as much energy weapons as the arctic cheetah nor run as fast and have the same hit points. The clan energy weapons damage is the main reason why it wont be fair. Speed to reliable get close enough to do the maximum damage that is possible with it's available tonnage and hard points. It's going to hurt when it arrives.

Maybe it will create a imbalance in public matchmaker where they'll be more light pilots than heavy and assault pilots.

That and an XL Engines that won't kill you with the loss of a side torso (unless you lose both torsos of course).

With that being said, the Space Pope doubts it will change the queues by all that much, because it will still be a light mech and subject to the inherent squishiness of this class of mechs.

Edited by The True Space Pope, 11 April 2015 - 03:53 PM.

[Jacobei]

The True Space Pope, on 11 April 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

How are they not wrecking you as you try to circle strafe them? Are you not dropping against good players or good groups?

Generally if a Spider tries to do anything but play "poke wars", then the Space Pope pretty much has a guaranteed kill in a couple of shots (arms alone would be more than enough) or perhaps one good alpha to a leg. Nor does it really result in much damage being suffered.

That doesn't even require a particularly deep amount of tactics or skill, just "charge Spider, shoot spider 2-3 times, watch Spider fall apart".

IDK, the Space Pope is just confused by your experiences, pretty much his own experiences indicate that even an average pilot in a FS will absolutely pummel a good Spider pilot, unless the FS pilot commits some major mistakes (i.e. stands still and tries to turret or doesn't pay attention can gets his/her armor opened up before engaging).

The Space Pope isn't even trying to insult you, but he doesn't understand what ELO you are in where a FS pilot finds hitting a Spider to be difficult, especially in a "circle strafe" duel.

To date most try and alpha strike my legs and once they overheat I core them.

Like I said, I will field the FS9 again and try it out. But I don't think its the stand alone monster that it is made out to be.

FupDup, on 11 April 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

Long story short, MWO inherits the Battletech situation of higher mech tonnage = better.

You used lights (or mediums) in BT when you didn't have enough spacebucks to maintain a heavy or assault. If you did have that money, you didn't really use lights or mediums, because they were less effective (assuming equal tech/optimization/etc).

Also, because you commanded a small force instead of a single unit, you could simply outnumber the enemy fatties. A Zergling might not beat a Zealot in 1 on 1, but you could have a lot more Zerglings than your enemy could have Zealots.


This doesn't apply in MWO because you only get 12 mechs at a time, so we need to make Zerglings actually as viable as Zealots. So far PGI has made more attempts at this than previous MW games, but still hasn't fully succeeded at it.

They should revisit this again.. Thanks for the post.

[bad arcade kitty]

InspectorG, on 11 April 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

Nah, just burn the main laser arm off the urbie, who cares if it can spin round.

but urbie r63 can have large lasers in the left torso

[Jacobei]

Terciel1976, on 11 April 2015 - 09:40 AM, said:

If you don't view the FS9 (and especially the FS9-S) as one of the very best lights right now, I have a great deal of trouble taking you seriously as a light pilot.

The FS9-S not the FS9-A? It thought the FS9-A was the best one?

[Impossible Wasabi]

FS9-S is better for comp or when facing good teams, due to the extra range of the MPL.

FS9-A is more of a pub all-star mech, not to say it can't be used in serious matches, but the all SPL loadout means it has to operate pretty close.

Edited by The True Space Pope, 11 April 2015 - 06:40 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

btw, does anybody know when arctic cheetah is released? clans desperately need a fast light

[TercieI]

Jacobei, on 11 April 2015 - 06:38 PM, said:

The FS9-S not the FS9-A? It thought the FS9-A was the best one?

OK, I'll answer.

The S is far more versatile and better in more situations. The A, while incredibly deadly up close, has to get up close. That's not always doable against good pilots working together. The S's MPLs reach out to almost 250 optimal range, so they're still effective at 300, where the A's SPLs are doing literally no damage. For a fire support deck, the H with MLs can become preferable to the S, but that's exactly the point: The A and H are both more situational while the S can be good in any situation. I think GMan's competitive tier list for lights is spot on.

bad arcade kitty, on 11 April 2015 - 06:42 PM, said:

btw, does anybody know when arctic cheetah is released? clans desperately need a fast light

July. For the first time, the heavy and assault come in June, the light and medium in July.

The True Space Pope, on 11 April 2015 - 06:40 PM, said:

FS9-S is better for comp or when facing good teams, due to the extra range of the MPL.

FS9-A is more of a pub all-star mech, not to say it can't be used in serious matches, but the all SPL loadout means it has to operate pretty close.

I think it depends on your plan. If you plan to press a brawl, the A is preferable.

[Sandersson Jankins]

To those talking about the FS9-A and FS9-S, it depends on the beast you wish to slay.

If I'm dropping repeated no-brainer 300ish damage normal drops, I use the FS9-A. 8SPL work well; but there are fewer situations in which you can get within 120m of an enemy without taking massive damage in CW.

So for me, if I'm dropping CW, I'll take the FS9-S with 5MPL. If I'm dropping regular games, I'll take the FS9-A with 8SPL.

[stjobe]

Mycrus, on 11 April 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

You arent a light pilot unless

A.) You actually like the commando

B.) Mastered 3 locusts.

A.) I love my Commandos. Mastered all five of them, and have run them regularly since 2012. I love playing my TDK or dual-LL 1B, getting 2-4 kills and 500+ damage in PUGs is not unusual in any way.

B.) I guess I'm not a light pilot then, since I gave up on trying to master the LCTs before they got quirks. Perhaps I should revisit them now that they've been quirked so I can be a light pilot like all the cool kids

As for the OP; well. Being a light 'mech aficionado (as I apparently have too little LCT experience to call myself a light pilot), I just have to disagree with your assessment of what light 'mechs are good and which are bad. In PUGlandia, you can get by with just about anything if you're good, experienced, and comfortable with your 'mech. I have no issues taking out just about any other light even in my Commandos - but I ascribe that to a difference in pilot skill, not that my Commando is better than their Raven, Spider, or even Firestarter.

And yes, the Firestarter is top dog among lights, no question about it. It's fast, it packs a punch, it's heavily armoured for a light, and it has great hitboxes. I only have the Ember, so I haven't been able to more than basic mine, but even so it's readily apparent that it's a great little 'mech - better than my beloved Commandos in just about every aspect.

However - I don't do as well in my Ember as I do in my 'mandos. Partly, of course, that's because the Ember is just basic'd whereas the 'mandos are all long since mastered (back in open beta for most of 'em), but also it's because I haven't dropped 1,000+ times in the Ember, and haven't spent ages getting the feel for the chassis.

So in PUGlandia, sometimes pilot preference and skill can overshadow which 'mech is actually better, but I seriously doubt anyone would take a 'mando other than the 2D into a comp play situation. If I was a comp pilot and not a PUGgie, I'd have to invest in a few more Firestarters to master the chassis, because it's the best light chassis the IS has at the moment.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"Every top light pilot in this game drives Firestarters as their primary now. Since the Quirkenings, even the most ardent Jenner drivers have converted. Firestarters are all you see at top levels of play."

And this is why I think Firestarters will be getting the nerf bat. In any game, when the player base all gravitates toward one build/class/weapon style, its a sign that something is out of balance.

My problem with Firestarters is that they don't register damage properly. Its so bad that in my lights, I avoid 1vs1 battles unless they are already crit, because I know that half my damage won't affect them. And my ping is 40...

They are buggy as hell and need to fixed.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 12 April 2015 - 12:41 AM.

[STEF_]

Koniving, on 11 April 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

What it lacks is the Battletech situation of Lower Mech value = More Mechs brought to the field.

And damn does it lack this badly.

and it would be so easy to solve this, imo...

Instead of filling 12 spots with 3/3/3/3, let players filling blue and red team with tonnage and remove any OP quirks.

But I don't know how much PGI would like this, because matches would not involve 24 players.

[Weeny Machine]

I love light mechs but often they are iften not fun to play. Reasons for that are:

1. Laser spam
People complain about skillless LRMs...but lasers range on the same level. I mean they hit a light because there is not velocity involved and aim can be adjusted. Sure, they don't hit for the full damage and it gets spread but they hit nevertheless

2. Huge alphas
Now add to no.1 the alpha potential and you know what the problem is

However, I think mediums are even in a worse state. They lack the speed of the lights and the firepower of the heavies. Whereas the heavies easily rival speed and nimbleness of the mediums. Totally out of whack

[STEF_]

stjobe, on 11 April 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

B.) I guess I'm not a light pilot then, since I gave up on trying to master the LCTs before they got quirks. Perhaps I should revisit them now that they've been quirked so I can be a light pilot like all the cool kids

Trust me, I've already post a lot of "Locusts are OP" posts around the forum.
They were Uber quirked, and it's been quite easy to master them.
Lil example: E1 with 6spl, 24dmg every 2,25....BUT
with these quirks: Torso Yaw: 120 ° ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LL): 16.00 ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RL): 16.00 ARMOR STRENGTH (LA): 50.00 % ARMOR STRENGTH (RA): 50.00 % ENERGY RANGE: 25.00 % ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -25.00 % LASER DURATION: -25.00 % ACCELERATION RATE (HIGH SPEED): 25.00 % ACCELERATION RATE (LOW SPEED): 25.00 % ACCELERATION RATE (MED SPEED): 25.00 % DECELERATION RATE (HIGH SPEED): 50.00 % DECELERATION RATE (LOW SPEED): 50.00 % DECELERATION RATE (MED SPEED): 50.00 %
AND with spl cooldown + spl range modules n°5... you can troll like a demon

[Telmasa]

Terciel1976, on 11 April 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

He stated that he didn't think the FS9 was as good... It's not about preference (I still prefer the Jenner)

And the RVN-3L is the third best Raven now. That may be why you see the others now.

Meh. If Angel ECM was changed to Guardian ECM and DPS/HPS quirks were altered to ones not affecting DPS/HPS, I'd be willing to bet you'd see all three ravens equally often. Same goes for all other mechs, tbh.

Fixing hit registration (HSR? server framerate? who knows how far the mystery goes) would help too. Though that goes both ways:
Earlier today my Urbie died because a Grasshopper rounded a corner on me, I twisted away to shield my cored side torso - yet somehow just a couple ML passed through my entire upper mech and still hit the cored torso to kill me. Nothing else on the paper doll so much as flashed before I died.
#upsetramblingrant now over

[Telmasa]

Stefka Kerensky, on 12 April 2015 - 01:18 AM, said:

Trust me, I've already post a lot of "Locusts are OP" posts around the forum.
They were Uber quirked, and it's been quite easy to master them.
Lil example: E1 with 6spl, 24dmg every 2,25....BUT
with these quirks: Torso Yaw: 120 ° ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LL): 16.00 ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RL): 16.00 ARMOR STRENGTH (LA): 50.00 % ARMOR STRENGTH (RA): 50.00 % ENERGY RANGE: 25.00 % ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -25.00 % LASER DURATION: -25.00 % ACCELERATION RATE (HIGH SPEED): 25.00 % ACCELERATION RATE (LOW SPEED): 25.00 % ACCELERATION RATE (MED SPEED): 25.00 % DECELERATION RATE (HIGH SPEED): 50.00 % DECELERATION RATE (LOW SPEED): 50.00 % DECELERATION RATE (MED SPEED): 50.00 %
AND with spl cooldown + spl range modules n°5... you can troll like a demon

Idk, the single-ERLL locust is a real pain to break 200 damage with, at least without any MGs.

Though that's honestly about as much as one ought to possibly expect out of a locust....

It'd be better if the heat/cooldown quirks weren't involved, though - then you don't get your SPL locust who can punch like a 55 tonner.

[STEF_]

Telmasa, on 12 April 2015 - 03:13 AM, said:

It'd be better if the heat/cooldown quirks weren't involved, though - then you don't get your SPL locust who can punch like a 55 tonner.

That's why I keep writing that locusts are op: those quirks are insane.

[TercieI]

Fenrisulvyn, on 12 April 2015 - 12:40 AM, said:

"Every top light pilot in this game drives Firestarters as their primary now. Since the Quirkenings, even the most ardent Jenner drivers have converted. Firestarters are all you see at top levels of play."

And this is why I think Firestarters will be getting the nerf bat. In any game, when the player base all gravitates toward one build/class/weapon style, its a sign that something is out of balance.

My problem with Firestarters is that they don't register damage properly. Its so bad that in my lights, I avoid 1vs1 battles unless they are already crit, because I know that half my damage won't affect them. And my ping is 40...

They are buggy as hell and need to fixed.

The Jenners are underquirked vs the FS9s. As for registering damage, I have less problem with that than others seem to (I feel they register damage about the same as any other mech) but part of that is that I don't shoot their torsos, which do feel a bit wonky sometimes. Their legs take damage just fine and are really the only place you should shoot them.

[Ghogiel]

Terciel1976, on 12 April 2015 - 04:27 AM, said:

Their legs take damage just fine and are really the only place you should shoot them.

If shooting the mech doesn't work out that well, and it doesn't for a lot of people, my protip is shoot a little bit ahead because latancy is a *****.

[Escef]

Burktross, on 11 April 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

Are you serious?

That mech is kinda' assy. Add 1 point of armor to each leg, swap to endo steel, and up your engine to a 300XL. Your cooling is reasonable, but you have too much AC ammo, you could easily pull a ton of it for another heat sink, maybe even 2.

[Yokaiko]

Fenrisulvyn, on 12 April 2015 - 12:40 AM, said:

"Every top light pilot in this game drives Firestarters as their primary now. Since the Quirkenings, even the most ardent Jenner drivers have converted. Firestarters are all you see at top levels of play."

And this is why I think Firestarters will be getting the nerf bat. In any game, when the player base all gravitates toward one build/class/weapon style, its a sign that something is out of balance.

My problem with Firestarters is that they don't register damage properly. Its so bad that in my lights, I avoid 1vs1 battles unless they are already crit, because I know that half my damage won't affect them. And my ping is 40...

They are buggy as hell and need to fixed.

You take FS9s because the Jenner has frankly crap hitboxes, EVERYTHING hits the CT, so it isn't nearly as durable, otherwise it would be much much closer between the pair.