51 replies to this topic

[bobobobobiy]

Pjwned, on 12 April 2015 - 05:27 PM, said:

LB cannons need a crit system that isn't complete ass so they can have enhanced crit modifiers that actually contribute something.



That's not how the probability works by the way, that would only be true if 1 pellet critting relied on the previous pellet critting, which isn't the case.

Well, he isn't really too wrong about his first point. To get full crit damage, each pellet does rely on every other pellet critting.
But he made the mistake of saying .06*10^10%. It's .06^10*100%, which still isn't a lot. And it's not 6% of doing 1 damage, it's 42% of doing at least 1 damage per pellet.

It actually turns out to be .004/1 or .4% chance of an LBX 10 not doing any crit damage whatsoever to an unarmored component.

All in all, he's an idiot. But he's right on one point out of the 5 or so he's made.
The LBX does have an increased chance of dealing any crit damage at all, though

Edited by bobobobobiy, 12 April 2015 - 05:50 PM.

[Naduk]

didnt the LBX do 1-2 damage per pellet at some point (as in variable per shot)
why not just do that again , i remember them being alot more powerful then their current state

[Mcgral18]

bobobobobiy, on 12 April 2015 - 05:44 PM, said:

Well, he isn't really too wrong about his first point. To get full crit damage, each pellet does rely on every other pellet critting.
But he made the mistake of saying .06*10^10%. It's .06^10*100%, which still isn't a lot. And it's not 6% of doing 1 damage, it's 42% of doing at least 1 damage per pellet.

It actually turns out to be .004/1 or .4% chance of an LBX 10 not doing any crit damage whatsoever to an unarmored component.

All in all, he's an idiot. But he's right on one point out of the 5 or so he's made.
The LBX does have an increased chance of dealing any crit damage at all, though

You want to double check your own math?

Not sure you understand how the crit system works either...If you try to correct someone, try to be correct.




It has a 67% chance of critting something.

It has a 6% chance of critting 3 times (the maximum amount of crits, at 2 damage each).


15% of crit damage is transferred to the IS.


Now, tell me exactly what was wrong and correct it, or stop being a *******.

Edited by Mcgral18, 12 April 2015 - 06:31 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Pjwned, on 12 April 2015 - 05:27 PM, said:

That's not how the probability works by the way, that would only be true if 1 pellet critting relied on the previous pellet critting, which isn't the case.

It's exactly how it works if you want to find the maximum potential...

[bobobobobiy]

Mcgral18, on 12 April 2015 - 06:22 PM, said:

You want to double check your own math?

Not sure you understand how the crit system works either...If you try to correct someone, try to be correct.




It has a 67% chance of critting something.

It has a 6% chance of critting 3 times (the maximum amount of crits, at 2 damage each).


15% of crit damage is transferred to the IS.


Now, tell me exactly what was wrong and correct it, or stop being a *******.

I was wrong on base values. Stop getting your panties in a bunch.
Regular weapons have a 42% to do any crit damage. LBX pellets have a 66% chance.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, the average damage values come in.
An LBX 10 with the stats 39, 22, 6 will do on average, 20.1 or so damage total.
An AC/10 with the stats 25, 14, 3 will do on average, 16.2 or so damage total.

So we see LBX still has an advantage vs unarmored components.

[Mcgral18]

bobobobobiy, on 12 April 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

I was wrong on base values. Stop getting your panties in a bunch.
Regular weapons have a 42% to do any crit damage. LBX pellets have a 66% chance.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, the average damage values come in.
An LBX 10 with the stats 39, 22, 6 will do on average, 20.1 or so damage total.
An AC/10 with the stats 25, 14, 3 will do on average, 16.2 or so damage total.

So we see LBX still has an advantage vs unarmored components.

No, you're still being so very ignorant.

That's critical damage, not weapon damage. Critical damage only damages components such as weapons or heatsinks, while 15% of that critical damage transfers into the Internal Structure (real damage).

So, the AC10 has a 42% chance to deal at least 11.5 damage, while the LB10x has a 67% chance to deal 1.15 damage per pellet.

The AC10 WILL destroy an item when it crits (barring the AC20 at 18 HP) while the LB10x might not.

The AC10 has a 3% chance to deal 14.5 damage, while the LB10x has the 6^-13% chance to deal 19. (double the potential, but so rare it's pointless)


You're going about throwing insults while you don't even understand the game mechanics? That's what's upsetting. So much ignorance and arrogance.

[Ragtag soldier]

the fix will be when they figure out how to handle multiple munition loads so it can handle the hole punching it needs.

that's gonna take them a good long while.

[bobobobobiy]

Mcgral18, on 12 April 2015 - 07:55 PM, said:

No, you're still being so very ignorant.

That's critical damage, not weapon damage. Critical damage only damages components such as weapons or heatsinks, while 15% of that critical damage transfers into the Internal Structure (real damage).

So, the AC10 has a 42% chance to deal at least 11.5 damage, while the LB10x has a 67% chance to deal 1.15 damage per pellet.

The AC10 WILL destroy an item when it crits (barring the AC20 at 18 HP) while the LB10x might not.

The AC10 has a 3% chance to deal 14.5 damage, while the LB10x has the 6^-13% chance to deal 19. (double the potential, but so rare it's pointless)


You're going about throwing insults while you don't even understand the game mechanics? That's what's upsetting. So much ignorance and arrogance.

Okay, I admit. I didn't read much on game mechanics, and I frankly don't care. I mean, after taking into account weapon sizes and weapon hp, there's just too many variables to really quantify how well an LBX will destroy something vs an AC/10. It's doable, but I'm not willing to waste another 5 minutes.
And I never used any insults. I was simply amused by your response.

[InspectorG]

Wanna make LBX strong?

Each pellet does 10 DAMAGE to an open component. LBX2 causes fear to a naked component. Cut the RoF a bit and let spread at range balance the damage.

Too extreme?

Change the crit system. Spread/velocity/etc can be quirked but make each pellet have a flat 20% to AUTO DESTROY equipment.
Like BT, open component gets hit, good chance you lose something.

All in all, bad vs armor, good vs open components.

[Mcgral18]

bobobobobiy, on 12 April 2015 - 08:07 PM, said:

Okay, I admit. I didn't read much on game mechanics, and I frankly don't care. I mean, after taking into account weapon sizes and weapon hp, there's just too many variables to really quantify how well an LBX will destroy something vs an AC/10. It's doable, but I'm not willing to waste another 5 minutes.
And I never used any insults. I was simply amused by your response.

So you're just going to spew ********?

Ah, the forums full of idiots. (Apparently not an insult)

[Lightfoot]

Well I know the LB-20X was nerfed back in like August. Before the nerf it was a real good Crit-Seeker gun but terrible if the mech still had armor. Now its just terrible. It seems to get no crit chance buff over an AC20, but the AC20 does high armor damage while the LB-20X is weak on armor damage.

[bobobobobiy]

Mcgral18, on 12 April 2015 - 08:25 PM, said:

So you're just going to spew ********?

Ah, the forums full of idiots. (Apparently not an insult)

Quite honestly, I was bored on a Sunday night and I wanted to shitpost.

[Sandersson Jankins]

bobobobobiy, on 12 April 2015 - 09:04 PM, said:

Quite honestly, I was bored on a Sunday night and I wanted to shitpost.

I can drink to this.

You didn't put enough into the shitposting though. Next time take a barely-feasible outlandish opinion and defend it to the death.

Be sure to mention likely unfavorable IRL characteristics (skinny, fat, neckbeard, poor hygiene, etc), poor amount of skill in-game, mock their faction choice, and above all, never admit a modicum of error.

Now THIS is shitposting.

[bobobobobiy]

Okay, sweetie, you actually got me a bit interested in this. I did a little more reading and maths.

Weapon hps may not be correct.
An AC/10 has 7 crit slots and 10 hp. An LBX will do, on average, 5.8 damage to an AC/10 when unarmored. So you'll expect to take one out in two direct hits, with only an average of 11.5 damage to actual internals.

A clan UAC/10 uses 4 slots and whatever hp. An LBX will do 3.3 damage.
Just for giggles, any one slot weapon will take .84 damage.

Now, let's look at the AC/10.
An AC/10 will take 3.6 damage, with 10.9 damage to internals.
A clan UAC/10 will take 2.0 damage.
A one slot item will take .5 damage.

Happy now? You've lost me like 20 minutes of sleep.

[627]

• More damage per pellet (1.2-1.4 for start)
  
• Mode switch for cluster/slug ammo
  
• Cooldown for Slug mode has to be higher than the AC10, I'd say start with a second more
  
• Slugs do the same damage as the AC10

That should do the trick. No need for those lulz quirks with tighter spread. You get a long range option with higher cooldown, and if you get in range you can blast away with the auto shotty.



The last point is written that way if the AC10 ever gets its damage number changed. Imho the AC10 still needs some love, too.

Edited by 627, 12 April 2015 - 10:35 PM.

[mogs01gt]

Two things:
Crit mechanics need to be more clear and better explained within the game client.
LBX needs fixed, 1.2 or 1.4 damage per pellet.

Edited by mogs01gt, 13 April 2015 - 05:48 AM.

[TheStrider]

Honestly, I was really starting to like the LBX10 (IS) before they reduced the cockpit shake. What it lacked in damage, it gained in mental stress. Not that I overly like alot of effects that shake the cockpit, but it could be a unique thing for the LBX.

[QuantumButler]

So basically exactly like Mechwariror 4, where LBXes were shotguns that did like 50% more damage than regular ACs at the cost of range and accuracy.

AKA: exactly what everyone has told PGI to do with them since they first implemented the weapon system in Beta because making different ammo types you can swap to is impossible and a deep rooted cry engine issue never mind the fact that Crysis has had different ammo types since forever..

Edited by QuantumButler, 13 April 2015 - 06:24 AM.

[Pjwned]

Mcgral18, on 12 April 2015 - 06:26 PM, said:

It's exactly how it works if you want to find the maximum potential...

The crit chance for the 2nd pellet doesn't drop to (0.06)^2 though, it stays at 6% and so does the 3rd pellet and so on.

[Mcgral18]

Pjwned, on 13 April 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

The crit chance for the 2nd pellet doesn't drop to (0.06)^2 though, it stays at 6% and so does the 3rd pellet and so on.

Then tell me the chance for all 10 pellets to get the 6% crit.