159 replies to this topic

[Aresye]

Triordinant, on 14 April 2015 - 06:59 PM, said:

The answer to Question #16 here.

Thanks. So in other words, there was no percentage said.

You DO REALIZE there is a difference between claiming this was said:

Quote

According to Russ Bullock in the last Town Hall meeting, 86.5% of all MWO players have decided CW is not for them.

When what was really said, is this:

Quote

A16: Doesn't share the community concern that the CW population is low. They are at a level PGI is happy with and they are very consistent. They do have the info and they use it to affect reward changes. CW population is slowly growing... no drop off that they have seen.
.
6 or 7 times the number of players in public queue vs. CW queue

And even that's not what was really said, as the person who typed up the Town Hall notes had to paraphrase many of the answers. Here's what Russ really said himself:

Quote

Uh, I don't know, I don't know how to answer that question. Currently I don't share the concerns. The numbers in Community Warfare from my perspective are good, and they're consistent, and I don't have, right now, the breakdown on a day to day, hourly basis, of how many players from every single faction is participating.
...
...
But it's consistent, and it's pretty high. It's been consistently, pretty much the same, and even slightly growing since the beginning, so I haven't seen some kind of major dropoff. Obviously when the feature first went out there was a lot of people...every solo player was hitting those queues before we had the queue information, so it was probably a little bit higher right in the first two weeks of community warfare coming out, but otherwise, it's been very consistent.
...
...
It's definitely a more hardcore mode, and that could change with introduction of more and more missions in Community Warfare.
...
...
Right now it's mostly about 12v12 units, and we certainly have a majority of our players playing in the public queue. Probably could be 6-7 times as many people in the public queue than there is in Community Warfare, and I'm not overly concerned about that at the moment. Again, it's very consistent in Community Warfare. We know who those players are. They're unit players, they're social players. They like playing in big units, they like playing in 12-man units, and competing...they're competitors.

So even though he said there's about 6-7 times as many people in the public queue than there is in Community Warfare, some of those players may still play CW, but simply play the public queue more. All that it really says is that at any given moment, public queue has more activity than CW queue. It absolutely does not correlate in any way, shape, or form, as to which amount of players don't play CW at all.

So your percentage is correct, but your assumption is wrong. For example, what if during the time Russ pulled those statistics I was in a public match? I would be adding to the number of players in the public queue, despite the fact I play CW fairly often. Saying 86.5% of players play ONLY the public queue and don't touch CW is pure, biased speculation, and impossible to determine with the statistics given.

[mekabuser]

sycocys, on 15 April 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

In almost 100% of the matches I've been in where certain players had 2 mechs left when their team was racking perma's it was because that player was not taking his share of the damage spread. Hiding and not drawing the necessary aggro to extend your teams dps effectively makes the player with the extra drops the weakest link in the chain. Doesn't matter if you are sniping and muster 2k damage - you didn't perform part of your role in this mode and the rest of your team vastly under performs because of that.

So in addition to just quitting the match, you aren't taking the time to actually learn what needs to be done to be an effective teammate in this mode.

i am a very aggressive player.i can survive and deal tons of damage in my first drop jenner most every time. why a jen, even on d? to be where i need to be, fast.

idk who this "you' is but, I know whats what

[Romeo Deluxe]

Choose one...

[mekabuser]

Triordinant, on 14 April 2015 - 08:11 PM, said:

LOL, that sounds like the vast majority of the players in the solo-only queue. However, I have to say the few times that I type out a plan before the match start countdown ends AND my teammates go with it, it's like magic.

such ego.
oh but no.. it just must be you are awesome bec u r grup! member/. the mysteries of combat are laid bare at ur feet!

[Triordinant]

Aresye Kerensky, on 15 April 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

So your percentage is correct, but your assumption is wrong. For example, what if during the time Russ pulled those statistics I was in a public match? I would be adding to the number of players in the public queue, despite the fact I play CW fairly often. Saying 86.5% of players play ONLY the public queue and don't touch CW is pure, biased speculation, and impossible to determine with the statistics given.

When did I say ONLY? Whether some players play in the public queue 86.5% of the time and CW the rest of the time, OR some others play exclusively in the public queue or exclusively in CW, it doesn't matter. The bottom line is at any given moment 86.5% of the activity in MWO is taking place in the public queue. If there were two identical 24-hour movie theaters sitting side by side and the average size of the audience in the first theater at any given time averages 6 or 7 times the size of the audience of the other, it's fair to say the people prefer the movie in the first theater over the other movie by a WIDE margin, right?

mekabuser, on 15 April 2015 - 12:36 PM, said:

such ego.
oh but no.. it just must be you are awesome bec u r grup! member/. the mysteries of combat are laid bare at ur feet!

LOL, I've never been part of any group, unit or clan in MWO or any other online game. When I play MWO, I play solo exclusively.

[StUffz]

Well, maybe you should consider about your last words, because that's the main reason why bad Teams or bad pug Groups fail in all facets of MWO.

[Vxheous]

Adamski, on 14 April 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

Nope, seems like PuGs can do just fine in CW, its a matter of playing to your potential. SoloQ is for learning your mechs, earning C-Bills, and getting yourself ready. CW is where you take it to the next level.

The biggest difference between SoloQ and CW is that the matchmaker isnt going to stack your team with high Elo players if you keep losing.

Can you PM me this picture uneditted. I need to know which 5 of my members did 500 or less damage because that is really bad. Thanks

[Romeo Deluxe]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 15 April 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

Can you PM me this picture uneditted. I need to know which 5 of my members did 500 or less damage because that is really bad. Thanks

(at you of course)

[Vxheous]

Romeo Deluxe, on 15 April 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

(at you of course)

We have a bunch of new members learning (which is fine), but we have noticed lately that we have had some veteran members that have simply refused to listen to improve, etc, and I am simply seeking some additional info.

[Maxwell Albritten]

Avengar, on 13 April 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

if CW is for premades than why can you Pug it? since you can then it means it's not just for premades if that is what they want remove the ability to pug it

In Liao we have many PUGs. People who do not want to be part of big units but like to drop CW. They do well usually.

Maybe your PUGs are just really bad.

[Adamski]

You were already in that match, but sent you a link to the unedited photo anyways.

[Telmasa]

Jakob Knight, on 14 April 2015 - 07:17 PM, said:

Honestly, I'm tired of explaining the same thing over and over to people who constantly bring up the same argument despite knowing that CW is intended for high-end group play.
Bravo.

The problem are those words I bolded.

High-end group play is almost entirely nonexistent.

Sharing voice comms and running the same meta loadout mechs with mass consumable spam in single-minded zerg waves, using the light rush to achieve any necessary objectives, does not make you or another group a "high-end" group - that's just riding the exploit bandwagon together and glorifying yourselves as something you are not.

There are very few units that have the actual ability for "high-end" play.

The game is flawed, and there will never be true "high-end" group play until the flaws are rectified.

Vxheous Kerensky, on 15 April 2015 - 01:34 PM, said:

We have a bunch of new members learning (which is fine), but we have noticed lately that we have had some veteran members that have simply refused to listen to improve, etc, and I am simply seeking some additional info.

Proof right here of what I just said: being in a unit and sharing voice comms does not suddenly transform you into being a good player or a good team.

The arrogance of group units in this game is by and large completely unfounded and undeserved.

[CantHandletheTruth]

Telmasa, on 15 April 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

The problem are those words I bolded.

High-end group play is almost entirely nonexistent.

Sharing voice comms and running the same meta loadout mechs with mass consumable spam in single-minded zerg waves, using the light rush to achieve any necessary objectives, does not make you or another group a "high-end" group - that's just riding the exploit bandwagon together and glorifying yourselves as something you are not.

There are very few units that have the actual ability for "high-end" play.

The game is flawed, and there will never be true "high-end" group play until the flaws are rectified.



Proof right here of what I just said: being in a unit and sharing voice comms does not suddenly transform you into being a good player or a good team.

The arrogance of group units in this game is by and large completely unfounded and undeserved.

Getting stomped on in crap mechs alone and unafraid obviously is the way to go.


We have been doing it all wrong.

[anonymous161]

Very few bother to play cw anymore due to how pointless the mode really is. Long wait times, extremely hostile IS groups wow have I seen some serious trash talk on their side.

They are going to be wiping the progress of everything again and thats after nerfing what you can make in the mode. They dont want their fans to have a good time playing their game. They dont have a clue how to balance anything in this game properly, it's why I think going too Steam is gonna kill this game. No one is gonna bother with the prices in this game, and if you are gonna play cw you gotta use mechs that are elited, mastered whatever you gotta go the lame rout with all of your mechs.

[Aresye]

Triordinant, on 15 April 2015 - 12:44 PM, said:

When did I say ONLY? Whether some players play in the public queue 86.5% of the time and CW the rest of the time, OR some others play exclusively in the public queue or exclusively in CW, it doesn't matter. The bottom line is at any given moment 86.5% of the activity in MWO is taking place in the public queue. If there were two identical 24-hour movie theaters sitting side by side and the average size of the audience in the first theater at any given time averages 6 or 7 times the size of the audience of the other, it's fair to say the people prefer the movie in the first theater over the other movie by a WIDE margin, right?

It absolutely matters, because you're talking about a tried and tested, finished product that's been around for a very long time (public queue), and comparing it to a bug ridden, still-being-balanced, group-oriented, "beta" game mode that's been around a grand total of 4 months.

The great thing is CW isn't meant for the casual players that just want to log a few hours of shooting robots and call it a day. It was designed FOR the battletech fanatics, roleplayers, dedicated trolls, and people looking for an experience that has more depth and competitiveness to it.

Even if CW was everything it was promised to be, and balance was perfect, the public queue would still see more popularity, because that's the default, "Play Now," game mode. You pick a mech, launch, and shoot things, without having to worry about faction allegiance, ceasefires, loyalties, dropdecks, contracts, logistics, etc.

Edited by Aresye Kerensky, 15 April 2015 - 02:45 PM.

[Triordinant]

Aresye Kerensky, on 15 April 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

It absolutely matters, because you're talking about a tried and tested, finished product that's been around for a very long time (public queue), and comparing it to a bug ridden, still-being-balanced, group-oriented, "beta" game mode that's been around a grand total of 4 months.

The great thing is CW isn't meant for the casual players that just want to log a few hours of shooting robots and call it a day. It was designed FOR the battletech fanatics, roleplayers, dedicated trolls, and people looking for an experience that has more depth and competitiveness to it.

Even if CW was everything it was promised to be, and balance was perfect, the public queue would still see more popularity, because that's the default, "Play Now," game mode. You pick a mech, launch, and shoot things, without having to worry about faction allegiance, ceasefires, loyalties, dropdecks, contracts, logistics, etc.

What are we arguing about then? I agree CW was built for comp teams and is still Beta and flawed. You agree that the vast majority of players play in the public queue and CW is never likely to be the game mode played by the majority of players. What are we arguing about if we agree?

Edited by Triordinant, 15 April 2015 - 08:29 PM.

[Jon Gotham]

Triordinant, on 15 April 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

Absolutely agree. They are the smart ones.


The answer to Question #16 here.

Ta, never saw that thread.
Question is I guess, should PGI continue making the game THEY want to make, or stop and change it to the game the uber casuals want? Either way is very risky for longevity of the game. If it goes anymore like the solo queue my and many others wallets will walk. I would guess the bigger source of revenue for PGI are the players more invested in the game and community. Whats more damaging lose 250 free/low spend players or 100 whales? I dunno...
IS there a way to FAIRLY balance the game between the uber casuals and everyone else? Because the current design ethic is NOT aimed at the unwilling.
But the unwiling keep complaining about their own choice....what should PGI do?

Edited by kamiko kross, 16 April 2015 - 11:52 AM.

[Triordinant]

kamiko kross, on 16 April 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

Ta, never saw that thread.
Question is I guess, should PGI continue making the game THEY want to make, or stop and change it to the game the uber casuals want? Either way is very risky for longevity of the game. If it goes anymore like the solo queue my and many others wallets will walk. I would guess the bigger source of revenue for PGI are the players more invested in the game and community. Whats more damaging lose 250 free/low spend players or 100 whales? I dunno...
IS there a way to FAIRLY balance the game between the uber casuals and everyone else? Because the current design ethic is NOT aimed at the unwilling.
But the unwiling keep complaining about their own choice....what should PGI do?

As far as I can tell, the only thing left that will draw in the casual crowd is PvE co-op and single player content.

[Romeo Deluxe]

Darth Bane001, on 15 April 2015 - 02:24 PM, said:

Very few bother to play cw anymore due to how pointless the mode really is. Long wait times, extremely hostile IS groups wow have I seen some serious trash talk on their side.

• There are still matches to be had, even on a weeknight, so I think you are very wrong.
  
• Long wait times? Relative to solo queue perhaps, but I think this is just your own impatience showing. The wait times don't bother me all that much. Occasionally they get too long and I'll jump in the solo queue instead.
  
• I find more hostile people in the solo queue. They aren't on comms but the chat there is way worse than CW. In CW there is more an attempt to work with the group. The biggest elitist jerks are in the solo queue.

They are going to be wiping the progress of everything again and thats after nerfing what you can make in the mode. They dont want their fans to have a good time playing their game. They dont have a clue how to balance anything in this game properly, it's why I think going too Steam is gonna kill this game. No one is gonna bother with the prices in this game, and if you are gonna play cw you gotta use mechs that are elited, mastered whatever you gotta go the lame rout with all of your mechs.

• A lot of personal opinion here. A lot of vitriol too. I am still in wait&see mode in regards to PGI's management but I wouldn't go so far as to make the claims you are making here. Steam remains to be seen how it does. Unless they provide a real new player experience then it will flop. If they get that part working out and looking good the game will have a fair chance on Steam.
  
• I completely don't agree with you on what is needed to join in CW.

Edited by Romeo Deluxe, 16 April 2015 - 03:42 PM.

[Sandersson Jankins]

All it generally takes to make a match AT LEAST enjoyable is one above-average player who is also willing to lead via VOIP.

I have found that pug players will more often than not listen to a leader that sounds like they know what's up.

I also have a much different experience than most players it seems- or at least the loudest players. I've participated in hundreds of CW drops in the last months and have had maybe 10 percent of my matches be PUG v 12-man. It just doesn't happen to me! This might be because of my faction choice (FRR only), or because I am very choosy with my planets (if I see 12 people magically appear in opposition...not choosing that planet without a group, because thats home to a 12 man!)

What I'm trying to say is that if you refuse to attempt command of pug teams, without legitimate reason (unable to speak, family commitments, etc), you have absolutely no excuse for your experience. You must take control over your own fun-having! I know it's odd to some, as fun is often handed to you, steaming on a silver platter. But if you're in CW, and NOBODY is attempting to take command of a team, you share the blame with the other 11 players.