88 replies to this topic

[Frostiken]

Stoned Prophet, on 14 April 2015 - 08:54 PM, said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....
Oh wait, youre serious? Let me laugh even harder.
Please go back to free stuffs cod kiddy land. Good riddance

The fact that you just called COD 'free stuffs' really speaks measures of your intellect, considering COD is not and has never been a F2P game.

Palor, on 14 April 2015 - 09:04 PM, said:

I played for free for years, mastered atlas, jenner, jaeger, t-bolts and my premium time was all earned in events. I did the grind for all my c-bills, and sometimes it was frustrating...those atlas were expensive. Yes the c-bills from premium time really help buy new mechs, but if you want instant gratification you need to buy it.

What would you describe as your leading decisions to keep playing the game? Was it the gameplay? Was it because you like Mechwarrior? Was it because the free to play experience was addicting and grabbed you?

That's my point. If you don't know what Mechwarrior is and aren't a die-hard fan, there's nothing about this game that would make new players want to stick with it.

[Tarogato]

I'm sorry you've come back to find the game too demanding. There's a lot to be done for the new user experience and making MWO actually capture and retain new players without frustrating them like it has obviously frustrated you.

Speaking as a completely free-to-play player (been playing for 15 months and never paid a dime, even got my Urbie package for free), I think it's reasonable as long as you expect it to be a grind. 85k per match means you'll play 12 matches per million C-Bills. You can play 6-8 matches per hour if you stick around for the scoreboard every round, and more like 8-10+ matches if you exit the matches that you die early and hop into another mech. I usually make around 1.1 million per hour myself (without premium), so it only takes about a week to grind out most mechs. There of course more expensive mechs... DWFs in particular cost obscene amounts of C-Bills, but no novice should ever be in a Dire Wolf anyways - with great power (and tonnage) comes great responsibility (and liability).

If you concentrate on enjoying the game instead of looking at it as a P2W grind, it feels like you earn credits faster, and you have more fun

Frostiken, on 14 April 2015 - 09:14 PM, said:

What would you describe as your leading decisions to keep playing the game? Was it the gameplay? Was it because you like Mechwarrior? Was it because the free to play experience was addicting and grabbed you?

Question not directed at me, but I feel compelled to answer.

I discovered this game by accident one day. I used to play MW2 and it comprised no small part of my childhood. I didn't come into MWO as a die-hard by any means, but it really captivated me. I generally absolutely hate shooter style games, but this just felt different and uniquely challenging, and the variety of mechs and ability to build them how I liked was what made me stick around, even after making poor decisions in buying my first chassis and wasting a lot of time and credits on mechs I ended up hating and selling.

Now that I'm experienced, I stick around because I want to get better. I feel like I'm on the cusp of being a competitive/pro level player, and I keep playing the game because I feel like I can attain that goal if I work hard enough, despite the fact that I play on a laptop with a trackpoint instead of a mouse and the framerate of a potato.

MWO exposed me to the rich lore of the Battletech universe that I was previously naive to, and the community is generally very creative, positive, dedicated, and helpful... not to mention just generally fun. Nowhere near as much negative attitude as other games.

Edited by Tarogato, 14 April 2015 - 09:23 PM.

[White Panther]

Stoned Prophet, on 14 April 2015 - 09:00 PM, said:

Ive been playing on my clanner alt. Let me break it down for you:
I have bout only paint, mechbays and paintjobs with mc.
I have only gotten Premium time by winning it in challenges.
I have had 8 clan mechs
Three stormcrows, two of which I sold
Three Hellbringers, two of which I sold
Two Adders, while working on the money for the third and leveling the first two.
Is it difficult and frustrating at times? Sure. But if you put in some effort, and learn how to make money, you can get whatever you want. But if youre one of these GIMME STUFFS NOW CAUSE I WANTS STUFFS NOW! I have ZERO sympathy for you.
Please, have a nice day.

Dont have sympathy for me, I got tonns of stuff. Save your little spiel for the new player.

If new people come to the game and quit because the new player experience sucks, then it sucks. And you know what? There is F all your gonna do about it. They are gone and thats that, it is what it is. You can get all wound up and call them whiners all you want, doesnt make any difference.

[Frostiken]

Stoned Prophet, on 14 April 2015 - 09:00 PM, said:

But if youre one of these GIMME STUFFS NOW CAUSE I WANTS STUFFS NOW! I have ZERO sympathy for you.
Please, have a nice day.

And I'll bet such a completely-not-at-all-a-massive-***** like you then looks around and goes 'IS THE GAME DYING?! Y NO NEW PLAERS!?'

Guess what, every successful F2P game in existence has survived because the game is approachable to new players, it feeds them a steady stream of content to keep them playing, and gives them incentives to log in.

This game has none of those, and it's why there's threads about the low player count all the time.

But you know, I'm sure YOU know better about how to make a F2P game than Valve, or the Clash of Clans team, or Sony Online Entertainment. I'm sure you belittling and insulting players really makes them want to stay.

EDIT: On the front page of the forums right now - one thread 'Is anyone even playing?' and another 'The Attitude Of The Playerbase In Mwo.' Good to see you doing your part.

Edited by Frostiken, 14 April 2015 - 09:20 PM.

[Bagheera]

Yeah, no.

Nice try, but no.

Combat Arms was P2W. Well, until it became Hack2Win. Go give something like that a try, then come back to this and you'll see the difference.

Is it faster to collect shinies if you buy some MC, or order some of the packs as they are released? Sure. Is it necessary to win matches or take down opponents? Absolutely not.

But my experimental "Let's see what the new user experience is like" alt had just under 11mil in the bank after the Cadet Bonuses expired. I could have easily started out on the CheeseCrow path with that if I had wanted, but I can't bring myself to drive that VatBaby garbage - even with an alternate account that's destined to be abandoned.

So I bought an IS medium with an interesting quirk and spent the rest custom building it to fit the quirk. As an experiment. Something different to do that didn't mess about with this toon's inventory, or whatever.

There's - literally - nothing that can only be purchased with an RMT that is an outright advantage. A Locust can take down the beefiest DireWhale when used properly - and even when the Whales were pre-order or MC only that was still possible - which means no, not p2w.

Period.

This debate has been going on since Closed, and it's as silly now as it is then. Even MC only consumables are not game changers, and those are the only things even approaching p2w territory. And by "approaching" I mean - "could have been a problem but so totally aren't."

NoobFlush is still the stupidest addition to MW ever in the history of Mechs in all of the games, but that's a different topic because there are versions available for MC and Cbills.

If you want to know why there are no new players, or why player retention is bad you need to look at the gameplay, not the payment structure.

This **** gets stale fast unless you're the most DieHard CBT fan. Endless scrums on simple maps with no real need for in-depth info war or variation of strategy (in PUBs).

Read threads on CW - those matches also become stale fast.

For new players, the tutorials are still lackluster, information about how to build is non-existant, the Mechlab and inventory and shopping UIs are beyond cumbersome.

It's not the pay structure that's the problem. It's kinda mostly everything else.

The core matches are pretty fun for a little bit, but that only goes so far. The "Feel" of mechs are still really good - but that only appeals to the base.

I could go on, but you get the point. The F2P model they're using is definitely NOT the reason there are issues with player retention.

Edited by Bagheera, 14 April 2015 - 09:25 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Payout/match sucks. With premium time and premium mech, as a decent player, I only make 1.2-1.5mil/hour. That's a module every 2-4 hours, and a fitted mech every 10 hours.

Now cut that income roughly in half for a new non-premium player, who is a noob, and doesn't have a 30% boost mech.

Now factor in that they'll have to buy and sell chassis due to only 4 mechbays, and factor in costly screws in meatball for a while until they get the hang of building mechs, and what mechs they want in the first place.

Yeah, it's pretty bad.

[edit] Not P2W, but the grind is really freaking severe. It's still stupidly long even using premium time and mechs.

Edited by One Medic Army, 14 April 2015 - 09:21 PM.

[ROSS-128]

Hunchback 4P says hi.

A solid, competitive mech that you can fully kit out for less than 7.5 mil.

If you only feel like dropping 5 mil on it to start with, it can run... decently with the stock engine, no endo, and just double heat sinks. You can earn the other 2.5 mil to get endo and the faster engine (if you're wondering about the odd size, yes that's specifically to use up tonnage when it runs out of slots) in the actual Hunchback, no problem.

But then seeing as the cadet bonus drops 10 mil in your lap, kitting out a brand new Hunchback really shouldn't be a problem.

If you prefer assault mechs, you can put together a decent, playable Wubshee for around 9 mil. Then you can use that Wubshee to earn another 4 mil to optimize it better (for example, the 9 mil version will be running without Endo). Or if you catch the Wubshee on sale for around 35-40%, the savings off the base price will be enough to cover its upgrades.

[Revis Volek]

Frostiken, on 14 April 2015 - 09:15 PM, said:

And I'll bet such a completely-not-at-all-a-massive-***** like you then looks around and goes 'IS THE GAME DYING?! Y NO NEW PLAERS!?'

Guess what, every successful F2P game in existence has survived because the game is approachable to new players, it feeds them a steady stream of content to keep them playing, and gives them incentives to log in.

This game has none of those, and it's why there's threads about the low player count all the time.

But you know, I'm sure YOU know better about how to make a F2P game than Valve, or the Clash of Clans team, or Sony Online Entertainment. I'm sure you belittling and insulting players really makes them want to stay.

EDIT: On the front page of the forums right now - one thread 'Is anyone even playing?' and another 'The Attitude Of The Playerbase In Mwo.' Good to see you doing your part.

That thread you are quoting is about CW, because PGI announced a map reset mid April.

Get informed....this game is not pay to win. Its pay for convenience just like every other F2P out there. You have presented a very fragile argument. I started an alt account months ago and it has over 14 mechs and has had premium time and free mechs from challenges added to a bunch since i started it. The last LFG challenge lone got you some cbills, gxp, consumable and 500MC if you wanted it.

It may have a learning curve but so do others games and for the cadet bonus you can easily get A FS9-A which is a power house or a HBK which are BEAST mechs if you use the quirks and that fact that you say they are not has given your argument even less credit.

You will not have every single mech, every single modules, all the space bucks and all the weapons and upgrades after 4 hours....not many games do.

[SmoothCriminal]

I think the OP makes a few decent points in his fit of rage, namely:

1. The recruit c-bill bonus should be enough to purchase a decent mech (though not outfit it as the only meta in this game is the grind - it definitely isn't CW as it stands).

2. The UI needs to be much more user/novice friendly (the devs have said they are working on this and that a new one is on its way soon - this month even)

3. The new player experience needs to be better - more than just a few training videos/tips - it needs to hold your hand through the mechbay and the first few matches.

These are all issues that PGI is aware of and will be looking to fix (don't forget new players = new revenue stream). But this is hardly P2W. It is more Pay to Earn faster.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yokaiko, on 14 April 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

I have 14 mil, enough to pimp a hunchie 4G

once you got that....what more you need?


Not a dang thing.

[Yokaiko]

What the Paulconomy does for us.




Decent right?


































That was a half mil a year ago.


......third game in that mech,

Bishop Steiner, on 14 April 2015 - 09:48 PM, said:

once you got that....what more you need?


Not a dang thing.

Well you need two more hunchies

Edited by Yokaiko, 14 April 2015 - 09:50 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yokaiko, on 14 April 2015 - 09:50 PM, said:

What the Paulconomy does for us.




Decent right?


































That was a half mil a year ago.


......third game in that mech,



Well you need two more hunchies

yeah but you don't really need to pimp em.

[Onmyoudo]

OP's poorly conceived pay2win argument is masking his legitimate complaint about the stupid economy.

[Kilo 40]

the bottom line is, if people are having fun, they will stay. and what people like the OP forget is that "the grind" is just playing the game. "the grind" only ends when you stop playing.

[Gas Guzzler]

The best mech in the game is available for c-bills.

This game is free to play, but you can always spend 20-30 dollars (less than the price of a video game) to get yourself started.

[KharnZor]

White Panther, on 14 April 2015 - 08:35 PM, said:

Yeah, I started an alt account couple weeks ago to see what it was like. Finished the cadet bonus, couldnt afford ****... its absolutely appalling.

Thats funny, when i started my alt account i could easily afford a fully fit hunchback after the cadet bonus and within a week i owned/mastered 2 more variants. i also made enough to buy 2 thunderbolts in that same week.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

The C-Bill rewards are high, and should not be readjusted. I have been a free player since the Beta, and the only two things that troubled me as a new player were the Cadet Bonus and daily 2XP.

[El Bandito]

Frostiken, on 14 April 2015 - 08:22 PM, said:

At the end of the day, I've managed to make my horrible, lousy mech into something vaguely capable of not being steamrolled by everyone else in what is, from my newbie point of view, a Pay-2-Win game. All is good now, right?

Uh huh. Right.

So I'm clicking around and check out the 'skills' menu. Hey neat, I can upgrade my mech even more!

Then I see that little text. "Unlock all basic tier efficiencies for 3 variants of this chassis to unlock Elite tier efficiencies!"

3 variants.

This is the only part I am sympathetic to the OP. The "Buy 3 to play the one you like" model is cowdung, and should be removed.

KharnZor, on 14 April 2015 - 10:05 PM, said:

Thats funny, when i started my alt account i could easily afford a fully fit hunchback after the cadet bonus and within a week i owned/mastered 2 more variants. i also made enough to buy 2 thunderbolts in that same week.

That's cause it is so easy to smash cadet players with your alt, mate. If I start an alt, I will probably have 10:1 KDR and WLR for the first 25 matches.
When I started out in this game as a complete newbie back in 2012, I had 0.25 WLR--making me earn next to nothing on average. And that is before the rewards were nerfed, twice.

Current reward system HEAVILY penalizes poor performance, so for newbies who are just starting out, it is a pain, once cadet bonus runs out (lasts for laughingly 25 matches).

Think from the newbie's perspective for once.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 April 2015 - 10:47 PM.

[Sorbic]

P2Win? No. But I do understand that it can be frustratingly slow for new players. Btw, I've seen several veterans say they created alt accounts and did fine. Great. You are not a new player. There is no comparison.

While not P2W new players are left to stumble about which can be costly but hopefully the coming new player experience improvements will help. I agree winnings are a bit low, esp for newbies and even a minor 10-15% increase would help keep people playing. Maybe some 25% "Rookie" bonus for the first 50 matches. Of course players should remember to factor in weekend events IF they can play them.

Maybe a pop up reminding players to check the bundles/deals when they try to buy their first mech would help. For $30 players can get 3 HB's (one hero with XL) 3 bays, 30 days premium time, a statue and still have some left over. Oh and of course a message about needing 3 variants (which is annoying) to fully unlock mechs.

Edited by Sorbic, 14 April 2015 - 10:42 PM.

[KharnZor]

El Bandito, on 14 April 2015 - 10:38 PM, said:

Think from the newbie's perspective for once.

I was, while writing that post going to expand on how my experience with the game was a distinct advantage.
But i don't really care to express my full opinion's on this joke of a forum these days.
Don't like it? get over it.