121 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

Khobai, on 15 April 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

IS Gauss is fine. But Clan Gauss is definitely not fine. Its 3 tons lighter than IS Gauss with NO downside.

PGIs whole philosophy on balancing Clan weapons was to make them equal but different (longer beam durations on lasers, burst/splash damage on UACs/PPCs, ripple fire on lrms, etc...).

Why is Clan Gauss the only clan weapon that didnt get an additional downside? Clan Gauss should have some kindve tradeoff like all the other clan weapons do.

Until you wrap your head around the fact that weight does not matter when the IS cannot mount clan weapons/vice versa, you cannot have a decent balance conversation.

When an IS mech can mount clan weapons, or clans can add/change endo/ferro/engines weight is a valid discussion...however, some mechs are pathetically bad for tonnage, etc.

[Abisha]

Gyrok, on 16 April 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

Until you wrap your head around the fact that weight does not matter when the IS cannot mount clan weapons/vice versa, you cannot have a decent balance conversation.

When an IS mech can mount clan weapons, or clans can add/change endo/ferro/engines weight is a valid discussion...however, some mechs are pathetically bad for tonnage, etc.

the funny fact is, most clan mech drivers will use IS weapons then.
they are far better then clans are

[AntiCitizenJuan]

If multiple Gauss Rifles werent allowed to fire at the same time I wouldnt be mad.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 15 April 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

IS Gauss is fine. But Clan Gauss is definitely not fine. Its 3 tons lighter than IS Gauss with NO downside.

PGIs whole philosophy on balancing Clan weapons was to make them equal but different (longer beam durations on lasers, burst/splash damage on UACs/PPCs, ripple fire on lrms, etc...).

Why is Clan Gauss the only clan weapon that didnt get an additional downside? Clan Gauss should have some kindve tradeoff like all the other clan weapons do.

Because IS mechs are so OP according to some people....

[Gas Guzzler]

KharnZor, on 15 April 2015 - 11:35 PM, said:

I got focus fired by 2 direwolfs (both were duel Gauss) near the start of a match the other day. I died almost instantly doing 0 damage, you know what i did? shrugged my shoulders and got over it.

Yeah, I would do the same....

Two Dires with decent aim focusing a target should take something down pretty quick.. regardless of what weapons they have.

[Tom Sawyer]

All weapons need to go. We need to run up and hug each other till we all fall down giggling.

And unicorns.

[Gas Guzzler]

Abisha, on 16 April 2015 - 08:12 AM, said:

the funny fact is, most clan mech drivers will use IS weapons then.
they are far better then clans are

Huh?

[N a p e s]

While I can understand the sentiment I can't support the OP.

Coincidentally, I'd just played a match with him (on the same team) before seeing this thread pop-up. He spent the beginning of the match trolling our teammates telling them how bad they were. I died midway through the match and spectated this guy for the rest of the match figuring that he's gotta be a pro. At this point we've got a 2 on 2 with a friendly Nova in the thick of the brawl and he's standing out at 800 meters in a fresh >90% Timberwolf firing LRMs (mostly into rocks) while our half dead Nova is brawling with the 2 targets. The Nova got both kills and secured the match for the team.

I hate discrediting and shaming people but this dude is a troll.

[DONTOR]

NOPE.

[WonderSparks]

I do not personally think anything needs to go, unless there is sufficient justification for doing so. The OP leaves everything to be desired in terms of justification. So no. Dual Gauss (and everything else) can stay until someone makes a valid point as to why something needs to be booted. (Like how PGI pre-nerfed Quad Gauss before the Dire Wolf could run it (poor Boomphract, tho))

bad arcade kitty, on 15 April 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

i recently watched how a dire whale who lost all weapons except 2 gauss rifles tried to kill a raven dancing around, lol

I distinctly remember being in that situation once (it was a Jenner for me, though). It legged me, but I eventually killed it... and had to find the last enemy, an Atlas no less. Somehow I managed to sneak up behind it, which was quite funny.

[Almond Brown]

Mister D, on 15 April 2015 - 03:06 PM, said:

Whatever you do, make sure you.

A. Stand perfectly still for the enemy.
B. Move (with your back turned) in a predictable and unchanging direction at all times.
C. Overheat constantly and force yourself into shutdown at critical times, always in view of a Sniper.
D. Keep peeking out of cover every time you hear the Zing of a gauss round slam into your face.

F(B)FY

[Joseph Mallan]

Reitrix, on 16 April 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

Personally, I'd rather dual Gauss was still the meta.
I much prefer 30 damage in one spot as opposed to the 60+ ammo free laservomit we have now.

Its teh same damage ratio as folks on TT have taken for 30 years. One Gauss 15 damage is the same level of damage as 30 damage v double the armor ...Per salvo.

And that 60 from lasers can be spread across several locations Gauss is solid damage.

[Almond Brown]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 16 April 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

If multiple Gauss Rifles werent allowed to fire at the same time I wouldnt be mad.

Well ffs.

If multiple "insert any weapon system", that can be boated above 3, weren't allowed to fire at the same time I wouldn't be mad.

Btw, if that were true, which one might actually make you mad it it happened to any particular weapons system in MWO?

P.S. If I come around a corner and find a dual Gauss opponent and get shot, that 30 points and the subsequent 4.75s I am provided to decide what to do next, is way more enjoyable versus some of the horrendously hard hitting shite one can find around some corners in MWO.

[Gas Guzzler]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 April 2015 - 08:44 AM, said:

Its teh same damage ratio as folks on TT have taken for 30 years. One Gauss 15 damage is the same level of damage as 30 damage v double the armor ...Per salvo.

And that 60 from lasers can be spread across several locations Gauss is solid damage.

While lasers spread, you can't correct for Gauss. Once you shoot its done, unless you can hit the same component every single time, the lasers are doing a good job of scrubbing off armor across the torso. So say the Timber Wolf is running around going up and down hills making very unpredictable moves. Even the best player is going to have a tough time (I've gone against top players sporting PPFLD and they don't hit the same component every time unless I am being lazy) hitting that CT every time. Maybe they hit CT twice and hit each ST once. That is the same as lasers being on target for half the time and shedding a quarter of the damage to each ST. Don't get me wrong each have their advantages, but too many times I see people assume that with PPFLD everything hits the same component 100% of the time, which only happens when you aren't moving quickly or torso twisting or anything. "But my LRM Atlas cant move fast and has to stare to hold locks" some might say. Well, unfortunately in that case it is going to be just as easy to put all the laser damage right into that CT. Of course, anything that makes aiming Gauss easier and more consistent also makes it easier to vomit all laser damage into the right place.

[Lightfoot]

I want the normal Gauss back. Just give it a 6 second recharge and it is balanced if the meters per second is also reduced slightly. If the PPC plus Gauss is the real problem just make it so they can't be fired together. Get rid of the apocryphal 2xGauss Sniper Cannon. It defies the Lore and Canon of the Gauss Rifle being just a long range mech rifle. It's not the MC's Railgun, it's just a mech rifle.

What's funny is that in MW4 the Gauss Rifle was 3000 meters per second and players usually carried 2xGauss and they were not OP at all. You used them if the map was long range, but the LB-20X was always preferred otherwise and in either case the gun took awhile, like 4-5 2xshots, to break through the armor, if you hit the same section, because all but the Assault class had small CT hitboxes. MWO's mechs are all so squishy it's hard to believe they are heavy armored walking tanks, but that's the way it is.

Joseph Mallan, on 16 April 2015 - 08:44 AM, said:

Its teh same damage ratio as folks on TT have taken for 30 years. One Gauss 15 damage is the same level of damage as 30 damage v double the armor ...Per salvo.

And that 60 from lasers can be spread across several locations Gauss is solid damage.

But the TT Gauss takes a full 10 second turn to recharge. Big difference when the recharge is cut in half, then multiplied by 2x.

Edited by Lightfoot, 16 April 2015 - 09:01 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lightfoot, on 16 April 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

I want the normal Gauss back. Just give it a 6 second recharge and it is balanced if the meters per second is also reduced slightly. If the PPC plus Gauss is the real problem just make it so they can't be fired together. Get rid of the apocryphal 2xGauss Sniper Cannon. It defies the Lore and Canon of the Gauss Rifle being just a long range mech rifle. It's not the MC's Railgun, it's just a mech rifle.

What's funny is that in MW4 the Gauss Rifle was 3000 meters per second and players usually carried 2xGauss and they were not OP at all. You used them if the map was long range, but the LB-20X was always preferred otherwise and in either case the gun took awhile, like 4-5 2xshots, to break through the armor, if you hit the same section, because all but the Assault class had small CT hitboxes. MWO's mechs are all so squishy it's hard to believe they are heavy armored walking tanks, but that's the way it is.



But the TT Gauss takes a full 10 second turn to recharge. Big difference when the recharge is cut in half, then multiplied by 2x.

No it doesn't. It takes 10 seconds to fire, maneuver, line up the shot and fire again.

[MilesTeg1982]

funny thing is ...

people complain about DWFs using DG and want DG to be nerfed to the point where it becomes not usuable ... completly forgetting the little fact that there are DWFs out there just as dangerous by boating CUAC5 ...

ps. before anyone complains about clans ... the KingCrab can do very similar builds for IS ...

[Joseph Mallan]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 April 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

While lasers spread, you can't correct for Gauss. Once you shoot its done, unless you can hit the same component every single time, the lasers are doing a good job of scrubbing off armor across the torso. So say the Timber Wolf is running around going up and down hills making very unpredictable moves. Even the best player is going to have a tough time (I've gone against top players sporting PPFLD and they don't hit the same component every time unless I am being lazy) hitting that CT every time. Maybe they hit CT twice and hit each ST once. That is the same as lasers being on target for half the time and shedding a quarter of the damage to each ST. Don't get me wrong each have their advantages, but too many times I see people assume that with PPFLD everything hits the same component 100% of the time, which only happens when you aren't moving quickly or torso twisting or anything. "But my LRM Atlas cant move fast and has to stare to hold locks" some might say. Well, unfortunately in that case it is going to be just as easy to put all the laser damage right into that CT. Of course, anything that makes aiming Gauss easier and more consistent also makes it easier to vomit all laser damage into the right place.

Good point. I am not making that assumption, but you do address what I didn't very nicely.

[Gyrok]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 April 2015 - 08:31 AM, said:

Huh?

I assume he was talking about the ACs...

[LastKhan]

Not like Gauss rifles are basically ticking time bombs when critted.