173 replies to this topic

[Bill Lumbar]

EgoSlayer, on 18 April 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

Russ/PGI says. Russ said they can't take any more crytek engine updates because they eliminate DX9. That tells me that a substantial portion of the player base is still using DX9. Some portion of them may be DX11 capable and just not using it, but PGI has the system information to tell that difference as well. And MWO is going on Steam later this year so it's going to be the Steam player base being added; making it very relevant information.

I am really sorry that I just can NOT agree with this choice by PGI... very simple to me. You can't have it both ways in regards to a high priced game (very overpriced mechs, MC, PT for the "value it gives a player") and a very painful grind that we all have endured for so long now, and have a game that is meant to push the limits of hardware, but yet water it down to the point it has been shown to be. Many players have spent Hundreds if not thousands of dollars on this game, and have invested just as much into their rigs so they can really enjoy all many games have to offer, and push limits... eyecandy, smooth game play. Maybe if PGI put into effect either my recommended Plan A or Plan B, many new players could afford that new DX11 card, or a DX12 card, a better CPU, a better gaming rig for that matter, and still afford to support this game. When is enough, really enough?

[Alistair Winter]

RampancyTW, on 18 April 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

Games are more forgiving, and the pace slower, when people are bad at them.

There's definitely some truth to that. But this isn't really a matter of discussion. We can just look at the pure numbers and see how TTK has gone down. Quirks being a major factor. I already noted in the previous post there was poor shooting. Beyond that, there's not much to say. Mechs did less damage when they didn't have 20% cooldown and 20% heat reduction quirks.

[Bill Lumbar]

RampancyTW, on 18 April 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

It's 2 mechs shooting at it (a combined total of 130 tons) and a ton of wasted/missed shots that keep it alive that long. And all of the power-downs happened behind partial cover, and the enemy mechs were too cautious to press up and take advantage.

I said it in another thread and I'll say it again here: a lot of the wistfulness stems from the poor play of players back in CB. Before the game was figured out and people knew how much they could and couldn't get away with, battles lasted longer, more builds were viable, etc. You see the same thing with SC2 with people posting old pro VODs from the first year or so of play saying "OMG I MISS WHEN GAMEPLAY WAS LIKE THIS," when looking at the games any Masters-level player would wipe the floor with them.

Games are more forgiving, and the pace slower, when people are bad at them.

I can understand this concept and agree with it.... it is very likely a explanation to some of the TTK in this game. If I make a bad mistake in my mech, I expect to pay for that mistake in battle. How high of a price all depends on what mech I am in, and how big of a mistake I make in game and a very important final factor in the equation, how skilled are the pilots I made the mistake against. Playing against players that have the ins and outs of this game figured out, and that know what their given mech's limits are, will in fact make for some very Quick and brutal battles in any game, this one is no exception, nor should it be.

While I may voice my opinion on the issues with the earnings in this game, and the painful grind, and the play styles it seems to breed in this game, In the two years I have been playing, I have never once voiced any concerns with anything in this game being OP, not once. I always give my best shot in any match I play in, even if it means dieing trying to do so. Some find this not fun and frustrating if they are getting stomped all the time, I find it to be a challenge to rise to and increase my skills as a gamer.

I can understand some of the issues that some have raised concerns on, but mostly I can not say I agree or even if I do agree simply don't care about those issues in this game. Some clan mechs should hold a edge over IS mechs.... some mechs should have a edge over other mechs, IS or clan, I have no problems with this. The thrill is finding a way to overcome a pilot that believes me to be a underdog simply because of my mech by baiting them, or using tactics. I find that these types of pilots that underestimate based on this alone produce some of the most fun matches and battles I have ever played in this game to date. Its even better when I have these matches recorded in 1080P on fraps.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 18 April 2015 - 02:13 PM.

[Rampancy]

Alistair Winter, on 18 April 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

There's definitely some truth to that. But this isn't really a matter of discussion. We can just look at the pure numbers and see how TTK has gone down. Quirks being a major factor. I already noted in the previous post there was poor shooting. Beyond that, there's not much to say. Mechs did less damage when they didn't have 20% cooldown and 20% heat reduction quirks.

I do agree in full with this, I like some of the quirks but some of them are really overboard. The weapon-specific ones in particular I find problematic, because in a lot of cases they completely mitigate the disadvantages of taking a particular weapon system over another (ML vs. MPL, for example). Agility quirks to buff/nerf appropriate chassis and some of the general weapon class buffs I think are fine, but making mechs arbitrarily godly is pretty ridiculous.

[Torgun]

Alistair Winter, on 18 April 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

There's definitely some truth to that. But this isn't really a matter of discussion. We can just look at the pure numbers and see how TTK has gone down. Quirks being a major factor. I already noted in the previous post there was poor shooting. Beyond that, there's not much to say. Mechs did less damage when they didn't have 20% cooldown and 20% heat reduction quirks.

Things were becoming worse way before quirks, the quirks are mostly just to even out what has already become a power creep that's left older mechs stranded. Sure some have gotten really powerful quirks that's been mostly toned down, but in the end that's more an exception than a rule.

It all went south when jumpsniping was the go-to thing for close to a whole year. Big mechs with lots of weapons sniping the crap out of you mid-air getting kills fast for the longest time. And when they finally fixed it (by the worst way imaginable, but that's for another discussion) came 12 vs 12 even on the smallest maps we have, so of course mechs were getting killed even faster when you're shooting each other inside an elevator. And then came the clans which had a couple mechs that either easily outranged or out dps:ed you by a huge margin. It's just a long power creep from here and it's only going to get worse.

Edited by Torgun, 18 April 2015 - 02:21 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Appogee, on 18 April 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

I already decided not to buy any more Mech packs until we get Oceanic and European servers.

I have achieved all I can do with a 240 ping. Now I just want a fair chance of playing at the same ping enjoyed by US players.

Yeah I'm in the US and my ping fluctuates from 150-250 because I have to use 4G wi fi. Its a drag but I do what I can

[Peter2k]

stjobe, on 18 April 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

And CW is all they do, except 'mech packs.

Players have been calling them out for not doing any CW stuff
now they shifted resources to making CW stuff

now players are worried they don't get anything new in normal drops

[krash27]

Peter2k, on 18 April 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

Players have been calling them out for not doing any CW stuff
now they shifted resources to making CW stuff

now players are worried they don't get anything new in normal drops

Good thing this info is nowhere to be found on the forums/official web page...

Edited by krash27, 18 April 2015 - 02:38 PM.

[Peter2k]

krash27, on 18 April 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

Good thing this info is nowhere to be found on the forums/official web page...

sigh
too bad isn't it?

He (or Tina?) should be posting such tidbits here more

[Alistair Winter]

Torgun, on 18 April 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:

Things were becoming worse way before quirks, the quirks are mostly just to even out what has already become a power creep that's left older mechs stranded. Sure some have gotten really powerful quirks that's been mostly toned down, but in the end that's more an exception than a rule.
It all went south when jumpsniping was the go-to thing for close to a whole year. Big mechs with lots of weapons sniping the crap out of you mid-air getting kills fast for the longest time. And when they finally fixed it (by the worst way imaginable, but that's for another discussion) came 12 vs 12 even on the smallest maps we have, so of course mechs were getting killed even faster when you're shooting each other inside an elevator. And then came the clans which had a couple mechs that either easily outranged or out dps:ed you by a huge margin. It's just a long power creep from here and it's only going to get worse.

Yep, agree with all that.

[C E Dwyer]

Stefka Kerensky, on 17 April 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

For me, despite the poor state of the game, the decisive moment to close my wallet is been last Townhall. Guys, sometime advertising can be dangerous for the company itself. This is my personal review of last Townhall: Russ: "Yes, we must improve the game, we are awere of this, that why, as all of you could read at twitter, we are planning 4vs4 and solaris and other game mode. In a year. Or year and half. Meanwhile, you can buy this Griffin!! Aaaaaaaaaaand IT HAS ECM!!! (so it's very good, buy it!) And another mech pack too! very soon!" clap clap clap

Russ seriously thinks a free for all and a 4v4 kill everything until it begs mode is going to make this game better ?

Only thing that will save this game, is going to be, better hit detection, and new shinnies , camo and decal unlocks that you can only get by playing lots of CW, without spending MC for but c-bills , and I do mean lots, of commitment, and matches.

People will want it because spending that amount of time will be a real achievement, it won't be a nothing reward like a cockpit item people are not buying, or some stupid meaningless title like ace of spades, which half the wears got because of the server disco's.

Doing what we were supposed to get, not just mercs but loyalist units with different benefits and penalties
So people will play CW the populations will go up, and CW might actually get close to event numbers.

At present we have a poorly developed game, that is only still alive because of people like me, raging fans, that have more money than sense, if this was just a stompy robot game, and not the BT franchies, it would have gone to the wall months ago

Edited by Cathy, 18 April 2015 - 03:57 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Peter2k, on 18 April 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

Players have been calling them out for not doing any CW stuff
now they shifted resources to making CW stuff

now players are worried they don't get anything new in normal drops

yes they did a bare bones launch , then they did maps, and then updated and corrected all the poorly thought out things like only one flip on a world wide server, all the things they should have done, before it was a beta, release, things that might not have caused it to bomb so badly.

Now they switch back to arena battle side, because that's where most people are playing, and a good percentage, of those,would rather be playing the CW PGI presented a year ago

Edited by Cathy, 18 April 2015 - 04:06 PM.

[anonymous161]

I agree with OP about the decline in overall game quality. I've never known a game to look worse as time went on. The last major item I spent was the wave 1 clans....I kinda regret that now especially how they nerfed the mechs. They really not that much fun to play anymore while IS got so many damn quirked mechs their lasers were never supposed to be better than clan lasers yet here we are clans getting smashed by 4n stalkers that can shoot over a hill and not take hardly any damage in return.

Too much wrong with this game to want to support it any farther. I passed the wave 2 and was gonna get 3 and even bought it but decided to refund it after see how horrible cw is turning out to be. I've spent hundreds of dollars on this game I dont owe them anything, they never came through in my personal opinion on anything they originally promised. You can say they delivered cw...if this is truly what you consider the cw that was originally promised. Nope.

They still haven't released a game mode that isn't just purely another kill all mechs within time limit. cw does nothing different gameplay wise just more exploiting.

There really isn't anything new or original in this game that is deserving of the amount of money thrown at it. Just a bunch of fanboys white knighting and throwing their lively hoods at the game in hopes that pgi will pat them on the back and do something special for them.

Will never happen I will be surprised if this game actually survives the 2020 deadline and cant see them continuing the game after that.

[Molossian Dog]

I have not bought a single Mech with real $. I grinded them all. Primarily because I find the pricing and this way of monetization is outrageuous.

Beyond that, I would still not even consider buying a Mech or pre-ordering anything as long as

- no physics. Teleport instead of collisions is an insult. Falling curtsey as well.
- less than a dozen gamemodes. We need missions, no stupid deathmatches in 3 different flavours (2 in CW)
- a laughable amount of tiny maps. And an announcement that we wont get bigger ones
- botched terrain hitboxes. They freak me out and are simply a sign of shoddy work.
- stopping the grind focus. Even CW is just a grind with no consequences besides the speed of grind
- power creep. `nuff said.
- no voice acting, no lore, no drama, nothing that helps immersion, no frigging depth.

There are other complaints, but compared to these they are minor.


And, boink no, I will not tweet this. If PGI wants to interact with its community it needs to interact via the medium the majority of said community uses. This board, not twitter.
They want our money not the other way round.
So finding out why we pay or why we don´t is their duty, not ours. It is in their best interest.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 18 April 2015 - 04:22 PM.

[Bloody]

I spent too much on this game as well,and the disappointment and " sigh , i rather spend my time playing something else" has all but crept in. The game graphic fidelity and quality has dropped significantly. The game modes and the lack of single player maps has not increased. The whole feel of the big stompy mech is gone, i feel too human FPS Counter Strike like. As a big stompy mech, small protrusions should not limit or stop my movement. Buildings and Trees should fall over. I should not be so oddly sized , everything seems out of proportion.

I do not play CW because it does not feel right, there has to more than just 12 vs 12 limited respawn Deathmatch. It is like the developers never played MW1 - 4 etc and just played CS as their background..

[Mycrus]

I gave them $100 mc purchase when they finally got sli working... ill give them $100 when 3d vision is implemented correctly... until then wallet is closed.

[Sir Wulfrick]

This has been one of the most well reasoned & discussed threads I've seen on this forum for a LONG time. A genuine pleasure to read.

Personally the question of further financial support is a difficult decision to make. If I included the purchase of my legendary founders' pack I would imagine that since August of 2012 (has it really been that long?) I've easily spent in excess of £1K on MWO, though admittedly I spent most of 2014 playing Path of Exile instead of MWO.

While I'm prepared to cautiously say that since the demise of IG Publishing MWO has begun to steer in a better direction and has benefited from all the changes introduced, since its inception I've had significant reservations about some of the strategic decisions that have guided the development of MWO and I continue to have them. In no particular order:

• I can't help feeling that the game simply lacks vision. For a game built on very modern engine tech (more on this later) I can't help thinking of opportunities lost. I really don't feel that MWO features any compelling reason to continue playing ad-infinitum. When I signed up back in August 2012 I'd envisaged huge story-style battles with competing armies on a varying number of scales from the large-scale strategic down to the tactical. I want actual lengthy missions with objectives, I want to take part in things like the battle of Tukayyid (forgive my poor spelling) and the eventual long-range counter-invasion of clan space. For MWO "end game content" should be irrelevant: I want to be able to feel that I'm a small part of a huge war machine and that my actions, together with those of my fellow mechwarriors, actually matter. In short, I want the WAR to be put in to mechwarrior. Team deathmatch? That's all we have? After three years that's it? Severe lack of vision and ambition.
  
• 
  
• If we assumed for a moment that the above was in fact a strategic goal of PGI, I'm deeply unconvinced that the Crye engine is capable of it. MWO should have been developed right from the start on the Unreal engine for any number of technical, scaleability and existing art reasons. I can only surmise that IGP / PGI chose the crye engine because they didn't like the licensing terms that come with use of Unreal tech for commercial games. In any event, this ship has long since sailed.
  
• 
  
• While some of the content released for MWO has been really nice (I genuinely feel that the art department do some utterly brilliant working bringing some of our favourite mechs to life) the glacial rate at which new content is released is beginning to make me wonder whether PGI are cynically treating the perhaps older generation Battletech fans, who being older than the typical MMO demographic might have additional disposable income, like a credit card. Maps and modes are released at a geological pace whereas there appears to be a steady flow of shiny new stuff on which we can spend MC, and thus real money. Whether intended by PGI or not, I feel that I'm being price gouged in to buying New Shiny Things as a distraction from the fact that in the last month I've played a few hundred games that all played out in an identical manner using identical mechs on identical maps.
  
• 
  
• I can't help but feel that PGI have severely mis-chosen the pricing structure for MWO. They really, really should have chosen the 'sell cheaply to many' approach rather than the high individual price structure that really only works with goods that have restricted availability. Pricing this high would be stupid even with artificial scarcity but without even that the prices of mechs, modules, paint schemes and colours are INSANE. I could accept the current price of mechs if, for example, at the current price each came with a small physical plastic model of the relevant mech. Would I have paid this amount for mechs? Hell yes, by now I'd have half a battalion set up on my desk in work! Without this sort of value addition the current prices are simply illogically high.
  
• 
  
• I have serious misgivings about the rumoured Steam launch of MWO. If the continued development of the game is to be dependant on the players paying for various things, success of failure of the game is going to be critically dependant on player retention and by extension the new player experience. There have been endless threads on this, some of which included some excellent ideas, but to my mind it's abundantly clear that new players being metaphorically thrown to the wolves following their 25-game cadet period will only result in a majority of them being severely dissuaded by the vast change in perceived difficulty.

Hmm, the above reads as if I'm incredibly bitter over the way in which MWO has developed. In truth I'm not. I regularly enjoy playing, though for me it's CW-only as I can't stand PUGing for a plethora of reasons. I get perhaps 15-20 hours of generally enjoyable gameplay out of MWO every week. In as much as I do generally enjoy it I'm willing to contribute and have pre-ordered the Clan wave 3 pack. That being said, I do think that the game has and continues to suffer from a lack of ambition and many, many missed opportunities. I don't know, maybe I was imagining a fantasy when I thought of how MWO might turn out when I first signed up. Maybe what I dreamed of at the time may yet come to fruition. My great fear is that in order to maximise customer revenue the only thing we'll ever have will be TDM COD-with-robots rather than the Battlemech war simulator that I wanted this game to be.


Finally, apologies for the weird bullet point layout, I couldn't get the points to separate in a readable manner any other way.

Edited by Sir Wulfrick, 18 April 2015 - 05:08 PM.

[Molossian Dog]

Sir Wulfrick, on 18 April 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

... In short, I want the WAR to be put in to mechwarrior. Team deathmatch? That's all we have? After three years that's it? Severe lack of vision and ambition...

This bears repeating.

There is no war. Only grind.

And to this very day PGI has not once (since open beta) publicly announced anything that makes it clear they are commited to make a war game in the end. A game of a dynamic (preferably player-driven or at least -participation) universe where you fight campaigns as part of a greater effort.
I could wait. I could dump money on this. Hell, I have supported weirder stuff on kickstarter. But why wait for something noone has promised?

In addition: That they come across as nothing but petty makes me bitter and resentful.
(premium time, !!colours!! etc)

Edited by Molossian Dog, 18 April 2015 - 05:45 PM.

[Dahnyol]

Sir Wulfrick, on 18 April 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

Hmm, the above reads as if I'm incredibly bitter over the way in which MWO has developed.

Great post, and it does not read as bitter to me at all. They are all points that people have trouble refuting with the usual "I play x amount of hours per week vs beer/hobby/etc per week therefore it is a good investment"

Anyone who has played games beyond a few F2P and major title games will feel the hollowness of this game after playing regularly. Barebones gameplay is an arena arcade shooter, seriously nothing more or less in terms of content. The lack of vision point is so relevant it isn't even funny. This game sometimes stinks of the people in charge just winging it.

Bill Lumbar, on 18 April 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

and have a game that is meant to push the limits of hardware, but yet water it down to the point it has been shown to be. Many players have spent Hundreds if not thousands of dollars on this game, and have invested just as much into their rigs

Great point I think needs to be repeated. I find it really sad that the ship for a better looking game as probably sailed. Looking at all the old screenshots and videos of closed beta, the graphics on the mechs actually look like a current game. I don't understand "cater to the whales who support the game, so let us support those same people by catering to low end computer systems"? Odd disconnect of thought.


I hope someone from PGI actually reads this **** and brings it to meetings.

[Alistair Winter]

Dahnyol, on 18 April 2015 - 07:26 PM, said:

I don't understand "cater to the whales who support the game, so let us support those same people by catering to low end computer systems"? Odd disconnect of thought.

Yeah, I was going to bring this up earlier, but my constant references to Star Citizen make me look like a fanboy sometimes. Even so, you have to appreciate the clever business decision Chris Roberts made by making a game for high end computer owners and selling big ships at absurdly high prices. Because people who play Star Citizen are generally people with solid disposable incomes, who spend a lot of money on computer games and other entertainment. The people who can run his graphically advanced game are also people who can afford to buy ships for hundreds of dollars, or even thousands.

As you say, the same does not apply in MWO. Here the target group is whales who buy mech pack after mech pack, adding up to hundreds of dollars, sometimes well over a thousand dollars for certain players, and yet they're trying to cater to the lowest denominator, the Steam users who may spend 20 dollars on some MC and a hero mech. If the greater portion of PGI's income is coming from the average low paying player, then for God's sake drop the prices on hero mechs, paint and camo. If the greater portion is coming from the whales, then for God's sake make a game with graphics that attract the high end computer gamers.