30 replies to this topic

[grendeldog]

Hey guys. So for a long time the recommended course of action regarding LRMs in CW is not to bring them. The idea is that ECM and map layouts don't encourage their use, and plus any LRMS boat sitting in back is one less direct fire mech to be doing damage and a loss of armor that could be expended in the team's interest.

Starting a few days into Tukayyid I noticed that I was seeing clan LRMs, and clan LRMS boats. I was seeing Mad Dogs a fair bit, and I even saw some LRM Catapults on the IS side.

Now, I haven't played CW in a week or two due to personal stuff going on in my family life and also because I have been venturing into the group queue for the first time in conjenction with other members of my new unit. But I have heard from a number of people that clan LRM usage has gone up even further.

So I was just wondering if anybody cares to theorize about this LRM resurgence - or to explain why if they know the reasons for a fact. Is the lack of CW-viable ECM mechs on the IS side driving this? I mean sure there's the Raven, but neither Stalkers, T-Bolts, nor Grid Irons have ECM obviously, and this is generally true along the rest of the IS CW-viable mechs. The new 'Phract May change this.

But yeah, any theories / explaination that people would venture to give?

[Strykewolf]

I have lrm. and non lrm, set ups. Depends on the map, who I'm rolling with,and, what I feel like doing. <<shrugs>>

[Insects]

LRM have a reputation as being inferior amongst more skilled compeditive players, and perhaps they are. They are out of the organised team meta.
But Turkyayd was all the PUG queue with less meta, so CW saw a lot more LRM players than usual.

Whether they have stayed popular or not I dont know, CW has been quiet since Turkyayd with burnout.

People may have worked out that the Stalker meta is actually very vulnerable to LRM unless they bring 3 ECM along to keep them covered. The ECM Cataphract may change that.
Clan meta less vulnerable because it already involves lots of Hellbringer.

[Gagis]

LRM's have been slightly more viable on the clan side, because IS does not have a Hellbringer equivalent.

[John1352]

While nobody was bringing LRMs, people stopped bringing massed AMS. Suddenly LRMs are semi-viable again.

[Mar-X-maN]

It might have been me and some likeminded folks fault. We discussed the usefullness of LRMs in the other thread during Tukayyid and people could have taken us more seriously than we anticipated.

Edited by Mar X maN, 10 May 2015 - 01:22 PM.

[Repasy Cooper]

grendeldog, on 09 May 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

But yeah, any theories / explaination that people would venture to give?

People have become less dumb...

LRMs are great, but people didn't know how to use them properly, they just spam chain-fire (lol). The LRM resurgence is due to people starting to figure out how to use them effectively. I've been using lrm-boats for months. Since doing so, my k/d and w/l ratios have risen by 15%.

Man I swear, too many people limit themselves by obsessing over meta. Yea, direct-fire has been the status quo from the start of the year, and the few of us REAL lrm-boaters have been stomping that meta since early January. Sad that people are only waking up to this now, maybe Tukayyid would have played out differently if the IS wasn't so obsessed with ACs & Lasers and threw on a pair of lrm launchers once in a while.

[Chagatay]

Repasy, on 10 May 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

People have become less dumb...

LRMs are great, but people didn't know how to use them properly, they just spam chain-fire (lol). The LRM resurgence is due to people starting to figure out how to use them effectively. I've been using lrm-boats for months. Since doing so, my k/d and w/l ratios have risen by 15%.

Man I swear, too many people limit themselves by obsessing over meta. Yea, direct-fire has been the status quo from the start of the year, and the few of us REAL lrm-boaters have been stomping that meta since early January. Sad that people are only waking up to this now, maybe Tukayyid would have played out differently if the IS wasn't so obsessed with ACs & Lasers and threw on a pair of lrm launchers once in a while.

You mean the opposite (not necessarily dumber but way more complacent). When ECM is literally everywhere, people tend to forget that indirect missile fire exists let alone the need to avoid it. That said I usually pack multiple AMS on both my Summoner (a strong anti-missile platform) and Nova (the ultimate anti-missile platform).

Edited by Chagatay, 10 May 2015 - 02:02 PM.

[Mr Rocketboat]

[Wildstreak]

Less ECM and little AMS results in more LRM.

[Willard Phule]

grendeldog, on 09 May 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

Hey guys. So for a long time the recommended course of action regarding LRMs in CW is not to bring them. The idea is that ECM and map layouts don't encourage their use, and plus any LRMS boat sitting in back is one less direct fire mech to be doing damage and a loss of armor that could be expended in the team's interest.

Starting a few days into Tukayyid I noticed that I was seeing clan LRMs, and clan LRMS boats. I was seeing Mad Dogs a fair bit, and I even saw some LRM Catapults on the IS side.

Now, I haven't played CW in a week or two due to personal stuff going on in my family life and also because I have been venturing into the group queue for the first time in conjenction with other members of my new unit. But I have heard from a number of people that clan LRM usage has gone up even further.

So I was just wondering if anybody cares to theorize about this LRM resurgence - or to explain why if they know the reasons for a fact. Is the lack of CW-viable ECM mechs on the IS side driving this? I mean sure there's the Raven, but neither Stalkers, T-Bolts, nor Grid Irons have ECM obviously, and this is generally true along the rest of the IS CW-viable mechs. The new 'Phract May change this.

But yeah, any theories / explaination that people would venture to give?

WONDERFUL advice. Well thought out. One problem, though.

New players.

Now, if you're referring to organized groups that field large teams, that's one thing.....if you're talking to the solos and smaller groups, you've forgotten something very important....a lot of the solos you're seeing are new players that use trial mechs. Trial mechs are LRM heavy...and besides, one of the first things anyone learns is to make the lock happen, then fling things that don't miss.

Trial mechs can't have any modules, can't be unlocked in the skill trees....they're pretty much useless in CW, yet they're a staple of every PUG match.

It is what it is, man.

[Motroid]

LRMs are as useless as ever when used vs. good teams. Literally dead weight.
Problem with LRMs is that they need a bad unexperienced enemy team to be even remotly useful.
UAV and NARC just doesn't cut it against a team that is aware of LRMs has multiple ECM/AMS and a dynamic playstyle.
That's why LRMs are not "Meta" and flat out inferior to any other weapon except the flamer. You simply wont get to use them against skilled enemies. Neither on Boreal nor on Caustic. ECM works in a way that renders LRMs useless when it comes to competetive play.
That being said i have to mention that LRMs have a purpose in MW:O. They help greatly when getting started and are pretty much the only weapon a player can use when playing with HoTaS or thelike.
Furthermore not everyone is eager to play the twitchy, torsotwisting, laservomiting, SRM-boating, peek-a-boo style that this game encourages to win. Some want a more vehicle-combat-sim style gameplay and they can have it here with MW:O and LRMs. Other than that I can't see a reason to bring LRMs. They are just bad.
When PGI wants to see LRMs used by more skilled players they need to change the way ECM behaves.

[Count Zero 74]

My advice to clanners:

Bring as much LRM's as u can, put them on any missile hardpoint a mech can fit. Makes life much more easier for us in CW.

[Adamski]

LRM resurgence in CW compared to PQ:

1) IS forces bring less ECM, thus LRM is more viable
2) Clan LRM weigh HALF what IS LRM weigh, lessening the opportunity cost to bringing LRMs

Why LRM still bad:
1) ECM still going to be all over the place
2) Cover, most pilots know how to use it
3) Spreads damage as bad or worse than any laser

[Willard Phule]

Adamski, on 11 May 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

LRM resurgence in CW compared to PQ:

1) IS forces bring less ECM, thus LRM is more viable
2) Clan LRM weigh HALF what IS LRM weigh, lessening the opportunity cost to bringing LRMs

Why LRM still bad:
1) ECM still going to be all over the place
2) Cover, most pilots know how to use it
3) Spreads damage as bad or worse than any laser

Also, add the following in there somewhere:

Monthly crop of new players (it tends to happen during the first week of each month. The marketing people know how to do their jobs, I guess).

Allowing drop decks that consist of all trial mechs and implementing yet another poorly thought out event, the most recent one aimed at CW in particular.

Simply requiring 1 owned mech would cut down on the LRM usage in CW significantly. One would hope that by the time someone has managed to buy their own mech, they will have noticed how ineffective they are.

[Kyynele]

There's no resurgence. There's always people who use LRMs. There are even whole units who swear by LRMs. And they might even do well against unorganized pugs and generally bad players. For them, LRMs can feel like a powerful weapon that the elitists just "can't use properly."

But if you're good at the game, you will be more efficient (deal more death per damage) and far more consistent using other weapons.

Even with a Stalker, you can ridgehump, blast all lasers at an LRM boat, back down and usually completely dodge the LRMs thanks to Radar Deprivation (if the LRM boat even gets a lock). It's an annoyance, takes a bit more time than regular ridge humping, but in the end you'll end up taking less damage than if you were shooting at a direct fire mech, and what damage you do take is spread all around your mech instead of opening critical components.

[bad arcade kitty]

Willard Phule, on 12 May 2015 - 02:22 PM, said:

Simply requiring 1 owned mech would cut down on the LRM usage in CW significantly. One would hope that by the time someone has managed to buy their own mech, they will have noticed how ineffective they are.

heh, when the event forced me to play cw having only kit foxes at that time i had to begin to use lurms to get the required 80 score, tried multiple builds, lasers, ballistics, srms/streaks, but a deck of a trial mech and 3 kit foxes vs people who are generally more organized and experienced... it's either lrm or suffering

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 12 May 2015 - 03:44 PM.

[grendeldog]

Yeah. On one hand I like that there is a bit more diversity in weapon loadouts for CW, but on the other hand I don't enjoy using LRMs at all and wish that diversity could apply in other ways, like improving clan ACs or figuring something out to make PPCs worth their tonnage and / or heat output. I don't mind lasers - they're probabky my favorite weapons to use for myself - but it is a bit repetitive seeing the standard clan las-puke and IS Stalker LL-mania every single time.

[Livewyr]

LRMs are going to get a lot less popular when the Shadowcat and Arc Cheetah arrive. Especially the Arctic Cheetah. It's a firestarter... with ECM. (So A must-have when considering your last 30ish tons)

The Ice Ferret is probably going to get replaced by the Shadowcat... which is ALSO an ECM mech.

[Lily from animove]

Mr Rocketboat, on 11 May 2015 - 04:50 AM, said:

PGI needs to buff flamers, so we can kill this abomination faster with it.