140 replies to this topic

[Lugh]

Adamski, on 15 December 2015 - 04:56 AM, said:

Yep, Clan mechs technically have locked upgrades, and if they want to upgrade something like the Summoner to Endo Steel, that's a whole new chassis, called the Grand Summoner / Thor II.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thor_II

The Clan Omni-Mechs are highly customizable, in that Clan techs could swap out Omni pods in the time it took the dropship to get from the Jumpship to the drop zone.

Battlemechs took months of time at a factory refit facility to change out weapons or upgrade structure.

But for balance reasons within MWO, I think a fair system would be:
Battlemechs: can swap engines, hardpoints locked, upgrades available
Omnimechs: locked engines, hardpoints swappable, upgrades available

Also, allow all Omni mechs to remove equipment like jumpjets / flamers / masc / cap.

Give Omni pods & IS body parts Jump Jet hardpoints, combined with the overall mech Jump Jet cap.
Also, make it so that Clan Upgrades are locked to using specific critical slots. ie: Endo takes 4 legs, 2 ST, 1 CT & Ferro takes 2 Arm, 4 ST, 1 head

The only mech that would still be slightly underperformers would be IFR, KFX, GAR.
The only mechs that would possibly become OP would be HBR & DWF & WHK.
The mechs that would be fixed would be: NVA, EXE, MLX, SMN, SHC, ACH, GAR, MDD

But but.... in MWO it doesn't take you months at a time to refit your mechs to Endosteel because that would be (and I quote) 'UNFUN' in the extreme.

So the OTHER advantage that Omnis gave to the clans is Persona Non-Grata. And they have received nothing to make up for it.

Unlock the omnis and let the chips fall where they may.

Otherwise, you will see little other than IIc second line mechs in CW drop decks because of their better customization options.

PS indulging in the logical fallacy of IS mechs get instant customization because anything else would be unfun cannot be maintained while saying Clan mechs CANNOT have the same level of customization because LORE.

That is one of the ultimate logical FUs out there right now.

Edited by Lugh, 15 December 2015 - 07:10 AM.

[KHETTI]

Unlocking engine swapping for clan omni-mechs....NO!
Breaking some lore/rules and giving some clan omni-mechs endo instead of FF they currently have, yes.
But only on select mechs that basically NEED it.

[Adamski]

Lugh, on 15 December 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

But but.... in MWO it doesn't take you months at a time to refit your mechs to Endosteel because that would be (and I quote) 'UNFUN' in the extreme.

So the OTHER advantage that Omnis gave to the clans is Persona Non-Grata. And they have received nothing to make up for it.

Unlock the omnis and let the chips fall where they may.

Otherwise, you will see little other than IIc second line mechs in CW drop decks because of their better customization options.

PS indulging in the logical fallacy of IS mechs get instant customization because anything else would be unfun cannot be maintained while saying Clan mechs CANNOT have the same level of customization because LORE.

That is one of the ultimate logical FUs out there right now.

There is a certain amount of lore restrictions necessary for balance, the debate is where that balancing point lands.

to PGI, it lands on OMNI locked engines AND locked upgrades AND equipment. Battlemechs locked chassis/hardpoints.

to some players, OMNI mechs should keep the locked engines, but unlock the upgrades

to other players, OMNI mechs should keep engines locked to a small range of ratings, and unlock the upgrades

to yet others, OMNI mechs should have unlocked everything fully.

Personally, I feel PGI is too restrictive with the OMNIs, and should unlock the upgrades and equipment, but keep engines fully locked.

[Dawnstealer]

Even as a staunch IS player, I'm on board with this. Not sure how'd you balance a Dire Whale that could move at 60+ kph with multiple gauss weapons and so on, as their only weakness is that they're slow, but...

[CaptainScumBa11s]

Make the upgrades the full 14 crits and the unlock em unlock std/xl but leave rating we have kicked lore too the curb but clan tech is still better you do need something to counter act the hard point swapping.

[Adamski]

Dawnstealer, on 15 December 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

Even as a staunch IS player, I'm on board with this. Not sure how'd you balance a Dire Whale that could move at 60+ kph with multiple gauss weapons and so on, as their only weakness is that they're slow, but...

Keep the engines locked for all the Clan mechs.

Then some specific negative quirks for worrisome builds. The DWF already has up to -20% energy cooldown with certain mixes of omnipods, can do the same thing with gauss / ballistic cooldown.

Edited by Adamski, 15 December 2015 - 10:53 AM.

[Chuck Jager]

How about for all mechs especially trials (IS and Clan), You can not equip Ferro unless Endo is equipped. I do not know who gets hurt worse experienced clan players wanting more performance from a middle road mech or new IS players who spend their first cbills for a poorly optimized POS.

Clan mechs would still have the endo locked or not at all, but Lore be damned Ferro only is just bad design in this game.

[Adamski]

That would break the cardinal rule of making some default loadouts invalid.

And not to be too much of a snob, but if players want to buy mechs without trying them (trials) or reading up on the forums / other sites, then that's on them if they get burned with a purchase that doesn't do what they want.

[Chuck Jager]

Adamski, on 15 December 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

That would break the cardinal rule of making some default loadouts invalid.

And not to be too much of a snob, but if players want to buy mechs without trying them (trials) or reading up on the forums / other sites, then that's on them if they get burned with a purchase that doesn't do what they want.

I agree with this on the personal responsibility side, but I do not want methods that punish new players plus the rest of their team. "Cardinal Rule" needs to be changed. They already changed the role for hit rules. Stock loadouts are already the biggest joke around except for a few folks who like imagination land. It is not too hard to imagine they have ferro.

A std 200 IS light is bad enough, but one with Ferro on top is just insult to injury for everyone. It also makes ZERO design sense to have ever added ferro without endo in this game (probably not BT universe). I thought these were advanced designs.

[Adamski]

The Ferro upgrade kits were essentially field modifications (I think the DHS were too).

The Endo upgrade required the mech to spend a lot of time at the factory refit facilities that could swap out all the internal structure.

The reason to keep stock loadouts is also so that PGI has a price that they didn't have to set. As soon as stock loadouts become invalid, then PGI has to determine what the new default loadout that people will have to pay to purchase the mech (and there will always be someone that doesn't want to pay for something that PGI changed to the new default).

[Kaeb Odellas]

I'd be okay with limited upgrade/engine customizations for Omnis. Limit engine upgrades to +20 or -20 rating, so a Dire Wolf could only mount 280 to 320 rated engines. Give Omnis half the usual weight from adding FF or Endo and lock the upgrade slots in specific components.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 15 December 2015 - 01:33 PM.

[Adamski]

Kaeb Odellas, on 15 December 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

I'd be okay with limited upgrade/engine customizations for Omnis. Limit engine upgrades to +20 or -20 rating, so a Dire Wolf could only mount 280 to 320 rated engines. Give Omnis half the usual weight from adding FF or Endo and lock the upgrade slots in specific components.

I would be even more strict:
TBR could only move upwards 50 rating, from its 375xl to a 425xl (same with the EBJ, HBR, MDD)
DWF would be limited to 275xl to 325xl (same as the rest of the Clan mechs, being limited to within 25 rating of their default)
IFR or GAR could both move downwards up to 75 rating, but no more upwards

[Kaeb Odellas]

Adamski, on 15 December 2015 - 01:37 PM, said:

I would be even more strict:
TBR could only move upwards 50 rating, from its 375xl to a 425xl (same with the EBJ, HBR, MDD)
DWF would be limited to 275xl to 325xl (same as the rest of the Clan mechs, being limited to within 25 rating of their default)
IFR or GAR could both move downwards up to 75 rating, but no more upwards

25 then? I'm not sure 425s even exist in the lore

[Andi Nagasia]

Duke Nedo, on 15 December 2015 - 12:45 AM, said:

Wouldn't mind endo/ff for the underperformers, but HBR is not an underperformer. It's already picked before the EBJ most of the time even without endo/ff... and neither is the DWF, but most builds I think are space limited anyways so the impact is probably a bit smaller there... but the HBR with endo/ff would be the perfect mech.

65 tons, optimal engine ratiing clan XL, ECM, high mounts for both E and B.

well the HBR will only gain 3 Tons, and at that lose 3slots in each ST(no ST-UAC20)
remember Stock Armor it has only 28.5Free Tons, with Max Armor 23.5 not too Impressive,

Lugh, on 15 December 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

You have no idea how awesome a STD engine Dire wolf would be do you... With Endo steel and a STD 360 moving 68kph or so? That would be better than the Bees Knees.

Ok people keep getting My Engine Type Swap mixed up,
you Can Change your Engines Type(XL for a STD) the Rating will always be the same,
which means a DWF would gain a 300STD and lose 9.5Tons due to STDs being heavier,

KHETTI, on 15 December 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

Unlocking engine swapping for clan omni-mechs....NO!
Breaking some lore/rules and giving some clan omni-mechs endo instead of FF they currently have, yes.
But only on select mechs that basically NEED it.

Again its just Engine Type not Engine Rating,
this would mostly help IS OmniMechs as most have Locked XL Engines,

Dawnstealer, on 15 December 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

Even as a staunch IS player, I'm on board with this. Not sure how'd you balance a Dire Whale that could move at 60+ kph with multiple gauss weapons and so on, as their only weakness is that they're slow, but...

well the DWF would Gain 3Locked Points in each ST, so no 4Gauss and no 4 UAC20 Anymore,
also Engine Rating wont Change so DWFs will always go the Same Speed, not faster,

[Andi Nagasia]

For Bishops Topic (Resently Brought back from the Dead) see Below,
(Pgi, Please Consider "free Endo 4 The Poor" And Underprivileged Omnimechs Not Named Timber Wolf Or Storm Crow?)

[Tombstoner]

yes.... no need to keep adhering to lore at this point....

[Andi Nagasia]

Tombstoner, on 17 December 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

yes.... no need to keep adhering to lore at this point....

well the Problem isnt Really Lore, Stories are good and all but look at the Archer Tempest?
in Lore it seems to have an Almost Supernatural ability to sneak up on people, to appear out of no where,
in MWO they gave it ECM to Cover said Supernatural Ability, i dont hear any Clan QQ that thats OP?
its not Lore but the Rules, Lore is more about Story, but its Rules that need to Change for Balance,

[LordNothing]

El Bandito, on 18 April 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

Quad Gauss Direwhale with macro = GG. Will never overheat and have plenty of ammo.

Yes, there is a macro that allows you to chain-fire all four Gauss within very short amount of time.

what? no backup lasers?

[Andi Nagasia]

LordNothing, on 18 December 2015 - 05:19 PM, said:

what? no backup lasers?

I guess not,
also not Possible in how its Balanced,
Good Try though,

[LordNothing]

you let them change engines and you will see them.