401 replies to this topic

[Gray Fox185]

So... when are you going to make clan mechs OP like they should be. that's what the lore says they are. Or do the books lie about them? so my biggest problem is the IS ER larges that run around every ware. Clan mechs are suppose to be better just a tiny bit. but the IS are meant to be bad.

[Wildstreak]

Don't have time to go over the whole list but here's a few right off.

Generic Missile quirks when you only have one Missile point such as Grasshopper.

Lack of ERLL benefits. Not many have them, those that do do not really benefit from them, generic Laser quirks always favor using LLs instead.

Flamer Quirks, do they even exist?

Weapon Health quirks possible? Everything is 10 health except Gauss and IS AC20s.

[VitiateDiabolus]

StillRadioactive, on 20 April 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

JR7-D/JR7-F/JR7-K: Yes, all three of them.

Once upon a time, all of the 35 tonners had a role. The Firestarter was the knife fighter, the Raven was the sniper, and the Jenner was the hit-and-fade skirmisher. With the introduction of the quirks system, the Jenner was somehow overlooked as the Firestarter was buffed to the point where it completely surpassed the Jenner in the Jenner's own role.

So here's what's needed to bring the Jenner back:

• CT Armor buff. This thing is a giant, walking CT. It's way too fragile to work in the current environment of high damage laser vomit.
  
• Acceleration/Deceleration buff. Make it the 35 tonner of choice for those who enjoy maneuverability over other attributes.

To differentiate the variants from one another, you have to focus on what each one does well.

• JR7-K: Leave it as is. With the CT armor and accel/decel buffs, it should be perfectly fine.
  
• JR7-O: Leave it as is. With the CT armor and accel/decel buffs, it should be perfectly fine.
  
• JR7-D: Missile quirks. It needs a bigger cooldown quirk, and it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to give it heat gen or missile velocity on top of that.
  
• JR7-F: Range only is fine... but it needs to be greatly increased. Leave the 15% energy range and add a 15% medium laser range quirk.

With those changes, balance will be restored to the world of 35-tonners.

This please. I really want Jenners to be more rewarding to play, as opposed to just outperformed in general by Firestarters which really ought to be the specialist of the two.

[Domenoth]

Off the top of my head, I'd say LCT, COM, and PNT need slight tweaks.

LCT: The missile Locusts feel woefully underwhelming compared to the energy boats. In my recent experience, I found two things contribute to this. One, the missiles spread quite a bit giving unreliable at best burst damage (on a Mech that has to shoot and scoot to survive). Equipping Artemis to help with the spread would require sacrificing an entire launcher which negates any burst benefits gained by the decreased spread. I think sizable missile spread quirks (essentially free Artemis) would go a long way to addressing this. They would give Locust pilots a chance to target and cripple an exposed location provided they can aim their SRMS.

COM: I feel the Commandos suffer the same issues as the Locusts. Missile spread quirks would be welcomed here too.

PNT: I think the 9R and 10R are specialized enough. I'd prefer to see the 8Z be more flexible with increased general laser quirks instead of being locked into the Large Laser.

[Molossian Dog]

All IS SRM range quirks.

They do nothing if not paired with SRM velocity and/or SRM spread.

Alone they are completely redundant. Just compare the new Griffin and the Wolverine -7K

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Also any quirk beyond the 6th or 7th. If a Mech really needs more than 6 bonuses it is crap to begin with and most likely a mess just like its quirk list. Something very basic is wrong with it and it should definately be overhauled or switched out.

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Also all quirks regarding weapons that are mere afterthoughts on a Mech. Missile buff for the single one-slot face missile of the Grasshopper? The hell?

If they aren´t providing insane amount of bonuses (which trails alot of other complaints) they are useless, redundant and needlessly cluttering the quirk lists.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 22 April 2015 - 01:55 PM.

[SleekHusky]

I would like the Catapult K2 to have uac5 quirks rather than ppc quirks. I hardly ever see anyone running them with ppcs nowadays anyway.

Also Enforcer 5P has nice uac5 quirks but would it be possible to have a "uac5 unjam time reduction" quirk so it can be useless for less time in the case both uacs do jam cause they still often do despite the quirks. Mainly it's the issue for the 5P due to the fact other than uac's it has 1 energy hardpoint for backup which is next to nothing.

Enforcer 4R perhaps could have a different ballsitic quirk that isn't an AC10? Most people I see seem to run a gauss rifle instead.

And the Enforcer 5D could use some medium laser cooldown since it seems the LB10X actually fires faster than the lasers which just feels awkward.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Mike Forst, on 22 April 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

Hello everyone. Thanks for your replies!

I will be reviewing this thread later today and gathering feedback info.

Do we get to have any idea what you're doing with the info?

[Summon3r]

SMN-PRIME agility good rest insanely bad for a 3 hard point mech.,... or unlock endo

[Kain Demos]

I can pick 3 that I think can get resolved into something useful when clearly the 2-4% AMS/MG quirks are probably easily everyone's least favorite.

Warhawks got quirks that massively improved the armor and structure of the arms instead of the problematic STs--why?

Nova is in the same boat to an extent--the STs are very large and easy to hit though unlike the Warhawk its arms were a problem too and only the arms really got addressed.

Gargoyle did not get nearly enough "toughness" quirks. Look at two comparable IS 'mechs--Grasshopper and Zeus. They came right out of the box with large armor and structure quirks to the torsos because of their "large frontal areas" but the Gargoyle is worse than both.

[Summon3r]

Kain Thul, on 22 April 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

I can pick 3 that I think can get resolved into something useful when clearly the 2-4% AMS/MG quirks are probably easily everyone's least favorite.

Warhawks got quirks that massively improved the armor and structure of the arms instead of the problematic STs--why?

Nova is in the same boat to an extent--the STs are very large and easy to hit though unlike the Warhawk its arms were a problem too and only the arms really got addressed.

Gargoyle did not get nearly enough "toughness" quirks. Look at two comparable IS 'mechs--Grasshopper and Zeus. They came right out of the box with large armor and structure quirks to the torsos because of their "large frontal areas" but the Gargoyle is worse than both.

add this word for word to my post above!!

[Nathan Foxbane]

I am disappointed with quirks in general as I see them as fine tuning and stylistic flair tools.

Specifically though? Any weapon cooldown quirk over 30%, quirks that stack with general quirks for specific weapons, and armor/structure quirks that put a 'Mech on par with a 'Mech many tons heavier than it. Those all scream meta generation and/or bandaid to deeper issues to me.

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 22 April 2015 - 04:36 PM.

[Mike Forst]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 22 April 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

Do we get to have any idea what you're doing with the info?

I'm going to compile it and make some decisions based on it plus other information and data that I have available.

I have collected feedback up until this post. As per my usual policy I won't be commenting directly on which feedback has been noted but rest assured that I did collect a lot.

[Banditman]

Least Favorites:

1. Any PPC velocity quirk. How about a "No minimum range" quirk instead?

2. Any missile spread quirk. More missile velocity instead please.


Have you guys thought of doing combo quirks? For instance, +10% range on Weapon_002 if Weapon_005 is mounted?

[Past]

My Least Favorite are on my Phoenix Shadowhawk-3H it has Ballistic velocity & cooldown buffs and i use 3 machine guns on the 3 ballistic slots so the mech effectively received no quirks at all for my loadout. This sorta thing applys to a couple other mechs i have with Machine guns it sucks 2 out of the 3 general ballistic buffs do nothing for a ballistic weapon.
Also Jenners quirks seem overly weak given how much better a Firestarter plays for the 35 ton bracket they need a little love for the giant centre torso.

[jay35]

Quote

Its great that quirks are here, but at large sizes they also act as a takeaway from other 'mechs.

[...]large quirks can warp the relationship of weapons across multiple IS 'mechs. For example, in the Medium class, the general value of AC5s is diminished because the 6R has a 40% cooldown quirk. The Grid Iron has a 50% Gauss cooldown. Same deal with the DRG-1N heavy and AC5s.

This is a great point Kin3ticX brought up back on page 4 that should not be missed.

Read his full post here.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Hmm ... I seem to have missed the deadline (stupid work, stupid time zones) ... but here goes, anyway ...

Bad quirks ... take a crappy 'mech, over-buff one particular aspect of that 'mech (or one type of weapon), and make it a "one trick pony". If the only reason people are using the 'mech is that it is the best at carrying a particular weapon system (Examples: AC/5 (DRG-1N), PPC (AWS-8Q), LL (STK-4N, WVR-6K) ... and there are more), then it doesn't make it a good 'mech ... it makes it a one trick pony, that's only good in certain situations.

Good quirks ... should enhance the purpose of the 'mech without making one build combination the "only" way to run it ... an example ... the HBK-4G (any HBK except the HBK-4SP, really) should focus less on increasing the AC/20's DPS, and more on making the AC/20 more survivable, easier to aim, etc.

[Lil Thumper]

Overall I'm fairly happy with the majority of the quirks across the board with the exception of the Victor mech...they have been "quirked" right out the game and need some love, perhaps an increase/addition to the ballistic cooldown or laser cooldowns? Possibly heat dissipation?

[Mike Forst]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 22 April 2015 - 07:08 PM, said:

Hmm ... I seem to have missed the deadline (stupid work, stupid time zones) ... but here goes, anyway ...

Bad quirks ... take a crappy 'mech, over-buff one particular aspect of that 'mech (or one type of weapon), and make it a "one trick pony". If the only reason people are using the 'mech is that it is the best at carrying a particular weapon system (Examples: AC/5 (DRG-1N), PPC (AWS-8Q), LL (STK-4N, WVR-6K) ... and there are more), then it doesn't make it a good 'mech ... it makes it a one trick pony, that's only good in certain situations.

Good quirks ... should enhance the purpose of the 'mech without making one build combination the "only" way to run it ... an example ... the HBK-4G (any HBK except the HBK-4SP, really) should focus less on increasing the AC/20's DPS, and more on making the AC/20 more survivable, easier to aim, etc.

No deadlines have been missed and this thread will probably continue for a long time. I simply placed an "I read up to here" bookmark for myself and everyone else to see.

[ShinVector]

Thing about quirks.

1. I know there were done to match up IS Mech vs. Clan Tech.
2. They were done in such a way that it made the supposed Tier 1. Eg. Light like Jenner F, Ember redundant amongst other heavily qurik IS mechs of the same class.

I feel the base lining for quirks among IS mechs of the same class/chassis could have been done better to avoid this problem.
Eg. Probably Passive quirks should be given to almost all mechs. Eg. Structure, Armour, Agility buffs.
And Offensive quirks quirks more sparingly but still given. Like someone else mentioned... Why the huge difference between the Jenner F and the Firestarer on offensive quirks when the Firestarter has even more weapon hardpoints.

[Machinae Mortis]

Domenoth, on 22 April 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

Off the top of my head, I'd say LCT, COM, and PNT need slight tweaks.

LCT: The missile Locusts feel woefully underwhelming compared to the energy boats.

I agree that the missile locusts don't really match up to the others. The LCT-3S is actually my second favorite locust behind the 1E, but in a good match you run out of ammo way too fast. I know this would seem large, but a +50% srm ammo/ton quirk would go a long way. Basically this would mean you could take the normal amount of ammo into battle (300) and bring the laser with you, or you could continue ditching the laser and bring a solid 450 to battle. Either way the mech would be improved significantly.

I'll agree on COM as well. The COM and the AWS are two of my favorite mechs...and I don't use either of them anymore. I'd like to see both of them revisited.