79 replies to this topic

[SpiralFace]

Dennis de Koning, on 22 April 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

OK, looks like this topic has quite the following considering Tina had to merge three threads.
Regarding these ‘broken’ faction camos:
We are aware of this issue and have been diligently working on a fix.
The original design of Faction Camos was created in such a way that some fancy work in the (Cry) materials editor was necessary. Some of these special treatments had to be sacrificed in order to allow colour-changeable channels; this is due to technical restrictions regarding the materials editor restricting user control, which had the kick-back of corrupting the original look.
So, by modifying the… *insert technical mumbo-jumbo here* …with blood, toil, sweat & tears, we have fixed the issue and you should see the change in mid(ish) May.
That being said, this is not a blanket fix, each Camo needs to be fixed individually so there’s a possibility that not all will roll out at the same time.

Passion may be a great reason for being rude, but it's a terrible excuse.

DdK

Hey Dennis, Just wanted to say thanks for chiming in on this matter to bring us up to date on the status of the camo.

When there was no patch note saying it was currently not fully up to the standard you guys wanted, many including myself took it as "working as intended." Good to hear that you guys are working hard to get it to a point where it is close to where it was initially. As someone who understands how complicated it can be to do shader realignments and breaking up single diffuse map inputs into user controlled color fills through RGBA masking maps a few passes over, the commitment to quality is greatly appreciated.

Knowing that the greater trajectory is going to maintain the visual quality originally established by the initial shaders, (which I was very happy with how they where originally,) I feel much more comfortable taking full advantage of the sale going on and filling out my wave 1 mechs with permanent GB camo unlocks.

So again, thanks for sharing, as it defiantly influenced further purchases of those unlocks at least for myself.

[TibsVT]

All but CSJ took a hit iin my opinion. I loaded up the game expecting to be able to finally put a decent scheme on all my Mechs.. Turns out the metallic CJF scheme just wants everything to be green and yellow regardless of what colour you put under it. I was trying to use a black camo under a section of mine - Nope! Sorry, you can has dark green instead (that or a ridiculous looking grainy dark yellow).

I'm really, really disappointed with the changes. I really feel for CGB too.. Theirs was so pretty.

EDIT: I jumped on the boat late. Thank you Dennis for the heads up and regardless of when you guys do finish fixing it up I (we) should thank you for unlocking them for us.

Edited by KelesK, 22 April 2015 - 09:11 PM.

[SpiralFace]

KelesK, on 22 April 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

All but CSJ took a hit iin my opinion. I loaded up the game expecting to be able to finally put a decent scheme on all my Mechs.. Turns out the metallic CJF scheme just wants everything to be green and yellow regardless of what colour you put under it. I was trying to use a black camo under a section of mine - Nope! Sorry, you can has dark green instead (that or a ridiculous looking grainy dark yellow).

I'm really, really disappointed with the changes. I really feel for CGB too.. Theirs was so pretty.

EDIT: I jumped on the boat late. Thank you Dennis for the heads up and regardless of when you guys do finish fixing it up I (we) should thank you for unlocking them for us.

To be fair, The original scheme had that greenish blue jade tinge to it.

The issue with the specular channels is that its going to be a difficult thing to "edit" without loosing even more fidelity from its original look.

Get rid of the green specular for a more neutral specular, you get more range of customization, but then suddenly the "canon" scheme that many people bought into the packs for will take a noticeable quality hit.

Same with the "copper gold" look of the Wolf one. Because most of that Jade / Copper / Gold tinge to those two camo's are heavily dependent on the tuning of the specular colors to get those effects more then the standard diffuse color. Since metalic colors are more dependent on what hue's they are reflecting more then what their base colors are. (which is why camo's like Golden boy have never given you control of the gold layer since its strategically crafted with a yellowish spec map to achieve the gold effect.

So while it definitely makes it hard to edit, I really don't think you are going to get what you are looking for unless you propose that you mute out the specular hue to a more desaturated color which will make it a bit more "universal" but it will be a VERY noticeable hit that will actually make your colors look more "dull" and blown out unless they tune the overall spec influence (which again will see a major hit to the original scheme that was sold.)

[Marauder3D]

Thanks for letting us know the fix is in the works, DdK.

Cheers

[Lily from animove]

SpiralFace, on 22 April 2015 - 04:30 AM, said:

Nope.

The old "Cyan" lines of the water ripple effect have been replaced with pure black. Which is both un-editable and does not change with lighter colors. Here is what it looks like with the ENTIRE mech painted in Ghost bear white:



You cannot get rid of these black lines with any method, and as you can see with how there is still a distinct difference between the Triangles and the frame, it is overall making any color you put on the mech darker, where before it was lighter.

So that there is currently ZERO ways to get the design to look as it has been presented both in the past, and the current advertisement for future mech products:



So if you where satisfied with how it originally looked both before the patch, or in the advertisement for new products, you cannot currently replicate it as advertised or as it has appeared on your other mechs for almost a half a year now.

marble armor. True choice of a MAD dog pilot. + 2x20 carrot launcher and 4 water hoses to make sure your clan garden is perfectly kept clean and planted for your mad doge.

Edited by Lily from animove, 23 April 2015 - 06:19 AM.

[Rushin Roulette]

Jonty Roodnick, on 22 April 2015 - 04:20 PM, said:

Maddog prototype using new material method:

This is why you never park your Mech outside of a University Party... someone threw up all over the right one.

[Lily from animove]

Rushin Roulette, on 23 April 2015 - 06:52 AM, said:

This is why you never park your Mech outside of a University Party... someone threw up all over the right one.

but if the colors gonna work right later, people will put a lavalike top camo on the MDD, and make the base either red ot black. which is going to look awsome on Therma.

[Jonty Roodnick]

SpiralFace, on 23 April 2015 - 05:31 AM, said:

To be fair, The original scheme had that greenish blue jade tinge to it. The issue with the specular channels is that its going to be a difficult thing to "edit" without loosing even more fidelity from its original look. Get rid of the green specular for a more neutral specular, you get more range of customization, but then suddenly the "canon" scheme that many people bought into the packs for will take a noticeable quality hit. Same with the "copper gold" look of the Wolf one. Because most of that Jade / Copper / Gold tinge to those two camo's are heavily dependent on the tuning of the specular colors to get those effects more then the standard diffuse color. Since metalic colors are more dependent on what hue's they are reflecting more then what their base colors are. (which is why camo's like Golden boy have never given you control of the gold layer since its strategically crafted with a yellowish spec map to achieve the gold effect. So while it definitely makes it hard to edit, I really don't think you are going to get what you are looking for unless you propose that you mute out the specular hue to a more desaturated color which will make it a bit more "universal" but it will be a VERY noticeable hit that will actually make your colors look more "dull" and blown out unless they tune the overall spec influence (which again will see a major hit to the original scheme that was sold.)

Spot on SpiralFace, basically what we are doing is allowing the user to change the base colors as a bonus but not the specularity much the same as the cobra pattern is now. Any change to the specular channels towards more neutral ground would be a compromise the original direction of the material. Besides that there are plenty of other patterns available to choose from if you want to have a more neutral specularity - these ones are special.

[Alex Louis Armstrong]

So, will it possible to change the olive color on clan wolf camo pattern in the future?

[WonderSparks]

You know, I thought something looked different on my Hellbringer after that patch hit, but I could not quite place it. Now I see what it is.

I mean, I am thankful that PGI unlocked those color channels (now if only the Invasion variants could get that third channel unlocked, as well) but if it came at a cost like this I have to doubt whoever made the change.
I mean, could it really have been so hard to not mess that up? XD


Oh well, as Bishop noted (on page one) I get some nice, shiny paint for my 'Mechs! Thank you, Jade Falcon camo pattern, you were my favorite before and you remain my favorite now.

[XphR]

Alex Louis Armstrong, on 27 April 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

So, will it possible to change the olive color on clan wolf camo pattern in the future?

It is now possible. That is part of what all this was about.

[Nightshade24]

Stoned Prophet, on 22 April 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

I like the new one better. Grittier, more realistic. PGI please dont change.

It's unrealistic.

Clan Ghost Bear uses camo to camouflage with the arctic-like oceans, glaciers, and snowy environments. There camo consists mainly of white, light grey, and medium grey.
most often the Urban/ Parade/ Ceremonial colours replaces the light grey from the list with a Blue.

Nearly none of the ghost bear skins use black a lot. I suggest it should be replaced with a white at least in the upper areas

[Alex Louis Armstrong]

XphR, on 27 April 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

It is now possible. That is part of what all this was about.

Ok, I'll try with buying one skin, but in the preview, when I try to change the color channel, that damn olive stays right where it is, and don't change for one inch!

Edit: Bought some one shot wolf pattern camo, confirming it's impossible to change the olive color.

I saw the previous post, and I'm fine with the special effects on the wolf camo, would have hoped the big olive parts without any shiny on it could be switched to some other plain color. I assume it will soon come!

Edited by Alex Louis Armstrong, 27 April 2015 - 04:39 PM.

[XphR]

Alex Louis Armstrong, on 27 April 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

Ok, I'll try with buying one skin, but in the preview, when I try to change the color channel, that damn olive stays right where it is, and don't change for one inch!

I would not buy it if it does not look the way you want it too. But do take another try at adjusting the olive colour, you should find that you can now change it to any colour you own.

[Wildstreak]

Would be nice to change that built-in FRR gold that did not use the third FRR color.

[TheSilken]

Jonty Roodnick, on 22 April 2015 - 04:20 PM, said:

Maddog prototype using new material method:

I WANT that Mad Dog variant. Look at the arms, hand actuators, 2 energy hardpoints, and 1 ballistic hardpoint for each arm.

[HlynkaCG]

Jonty Roodnick, on 22 April 2015 - 04:20 PM, said:

Maddog prototype using new material method:

Looks great! well done art team.

Any chance of the IS faction camos getting a similar treatment?

[TibsVT]

SpiralFace, on 23 April 2015 - 05:31 AM, said:

To be fair, The original scheme had that greenish blue jade tinge to it.

The issue with the specular channels is that its going to be a difficult thing to "edit" without loosing even more fidelity from its original look.

Get rid of the green specular for a more neutral specular, you get more range of customization, but then suddenly the "canon" scheme that many people bought into the packs for will take a noticeable quality hit.

Same with the "copper gold" look of the Wolf one. Because most of that Jade / Copper / Gold tinge to those two camo's are heavily dependent on the tuning of the specular colors to get those effects more then the standard diffuse color. Since metalic colors are more dependent on what hue's they are reflecting more then what their base colors are. (which is why camo's like Golden boy have never given you control of the gold layer since its strategically crafted with a yellowish spec map to achieve the gold effect.

So while it definitely makes it hard to edit, I really don't think you are going to get what you are looking for unless you propose that you mute out the specular hue to a more desaturated color which will make it a bit more "universal" but it will be a VERY noticeable hit that will actually make your colors look more "dull" and blown out unless they tune the overall spec influence (which again will see a major hit to the original scheme that was sold.)

I know what you're saying but if you have a look at what they are doing with the Mad Dog With the CGB scheme that ripple thought the primary looks now as though it shows up a "lighter" colour of what is under it. I'm just saying it would be nice to see the same effect with the CJF scheme. So if I were to put a green under it, it would be similar. A grey, it reflects grey. Blue - blue, etc. Just saying it would be nice is all.

Edited by KelesK, 29 April 2015 - 04:22 PM.

[SpiralFace]

So the thing about that is that you are now talking about a tint influence added on top of a texture map call. Which again, they get the hue variance because there is saturated colors in the texture maps. (The fan art forums will show you how you can unpack and examine the raw .tga files yourself if you wished.)

Adding a tint on top of the specular input isn't so simple.

For one, adding additional customization to those secular inputs (Even simple ones like a tint overlay like you are suggesting) adds draw calls to the shader itself which means more overhead to have both the customization AND the extra effects.

Next, Metallic colors tend to be replicated in diffuse / spec channel game art by having deep / darker "diffuse" colors and high amounts of reflected color.

Putting a lighter color as a base, that ALSO acts as a tint to your spec input is an easy way you are going to get specular blowout in the shader without adjusting the particular shader values, (try putting lighter colors on the "wolf" golden camo to see what I am saying in regards to this.) As well as loose any semblence of a realistic like shading model (as realistically rendered shaders are made more realistic by adding hue variance meant to balance the effects.) Proper tinted metallic shaders are supported by "deep" colored bases, with high value reflections with the appropriate amount of tint. Sometimes not in the same color you use as your base. (Gold for instance is usually built off of a more "brown / reddish" base color, and is then tinted by a yellow tinted spec input to achieve rich gold effects. So having your base color also act as a hue tint on the spec input is not going to get you the desires that you are looking for, and will only make things look more blown out and on the "cartoon" side of things if your richly saturated base color also acts as a spec tint influence.

Typically you want those kinds of colors to be complimentary, which is why the earlier "jade green" look of the original one before the customization had a green base with a blueish spec to get the jade effect.

It would be nice if you could control that spec hue input, but sadly, that opens up other complications as well, as the spec is a universal map ( Not masked off by the RGBA mask map.) So while the RGBA masking allows for flat fills of specific sections, the specular map is driven on a global level. So if you where to tint that map anyways, it would tint it for the entire mech and not limit it to individual sections.

Sure there are ways to section this off (reusing the RGBA masking to further add more customization options to the spec inputs of each section.) But doing so is going to GREATLY increase draw calls on the individual shaders, upping their consumption of system resources, and probably get a few engineers or tech artists flogging Jonty for increasing the memory overhead budget for those particular effects. (Not to mention that you would need to add UI in order to add the customization that you are seeking.)

[Liquid Leopard]

It reminds me a lot of how the revised look of the Cataphract screwed up the Tiger camo, and the Tiger camo on the Centurion looks even worse.

It happened at the same time as when PGI shrank the gun barrels on the Jagermech.

For some reason the team is going on a streak of screwing up things that used to look good.