292 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Seph MacLeod, on 25 April 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

Clan gauss is pretty damn worthless and our ERMLs can be out fired, out damaged and out ranged by anything with Large Laser quirks, .. soooo.. yeah.

Says Gauss rifles are useless.... then complains that 1 ton clan lasers are outranged by 5 ton IS lasers.

Yeah.


Nuff said.

[Stealth Fox]

pbiggz, on 25 April 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

They will have to

Inhale my dong enragement child?

Bishop Steiner, on 25 April 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

Says Gauss rifles are useless.... then complains that 1 ton clan lasers are outranged by 5 ton IS lasers.
Yeah.
Nuff said.

Lack of pod space, high heat, and the fact that you can do more with those IS large Lasers then you can with the clan lasers I think should of been obvious enough to show what I meant by that.

You just don't see many clan mechs running LLs at the moment do you? Nah..they all seem to be running the Mids, I wonder why that is, Oh.. so they don't shut down and overheat in the middle of a fight.

Don't be a nincompoop Bishop, I have to many reasons to like you.

[Alistair Winter]

What I think you're all forgetting is that Clan mech omnipod bonuses are stackable.

For example, the Mist Lynx Prime's left arm has a 3% cooldown bonus. Its right arm also has a 3% cooldown bonus. When those bonuses stack together, we're talking about a 6% cooldown bonus! So... please, educate yourselves.

The question is, should PGI nerf the insane -5% LBX spread on the Kit Fox?

Discuss.

[Bishop Steiner]

Seph MacLeod, on 25 April 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

Inhale my dong enragement child?



Lack of pod space, high heat, and the fact that you can do more with those IS large Lasers then you can with the clan lasers I think should of been obvious enough to show what I meant by that.

You just don't see many clan mechs running LLs at the moment do you? Nah..they all seem to be running the Mids, I wonder why that is, Oh.. so they don't shut down and overheat in the middle of a fight.

Don't be a nincompoop Bishop, I have to many reasons to like you.

I'm just saying check your arguments for obvious flaws. Both sides have made some good points. Also, most good clan units use the C-LPL extensively, and manage the heat fine. Mostly due to 2 crit DHS, such. Comparing the efficacy of the IS-LL to the C_ML is fraught with glaring problems. That 5 ton laser SHOULD outperform the 1 ton one, and you have to compare them in a vacuum, because not all mechs, Clan or IS are quirked, or have internal space issues, equally.

I play both factions, and while I do agree some IS quirks are out of hand, that doesn't automatically make Clan MEchs bad. Really the only full out "bad" are Clan Autocannons, which do need to be addressed. But Clan TBRs and SCRs have been going toe to toe with IS STKs and TDRs all weekend and holding their own quite nicely. And the TBR and SCR are still the most versatile, powerful mechs in the game. (Stalker-4N is probably as powerful but nowhere near as versatile, and the THUds, DRGs and such, are a step behind, though still very good)

[Stealth Fox]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 April 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

I'm just saying check your arguments for obvious flaws. Both sides have made some good points. Also, most good clan units use the C-LPL extensively, and manage the heat fine. Mostly due to 2 crit DHS, such. Comparing the efficacy of the IS-LL to the C_ML is fraught with glaring problems. That 5 ton laser SHOULD outperform the 1 ton one, and you have to compare them in a vacuum, because not all mechs, Clan or IS are quirked, or have internal space issues, equally.

I play both factions, and while I do agree some IS quirks are out of hand, that doesn't automatically make Clan MEchs bad. Really the only full out "bad" are Clan Autocannons, which do need to be addressed. But Clan TBRs and SCRs have been going toe to toe with IS STKs and TDRs all weekend and holding their own quite nicely. And the TBR and SCR are still the most versatile, powerful mechs in the game. (Stalker-4N is probably as powerful but nowhere near as versatile, and the THUds, DRGs and such, are a step behind, though still very good)

I am not saying they can't hold their own against the various clan mechs. What I am saying is I am sick of people saying the IS has nothing that can stand against the three (two) good mechs the Clans have. Yeah, the Crow and Timber could maybe use some adjusting, but We have several other mechs that would need to be helped out a lot more if it where to change the drop decks any.

The Nova is getting there, Not great, but it's doable, but even that will fold to IS mechs in a toe to toe. Nearly everything else is a joke though. I know sure as hell my Mad Dogs or Nova's aint winnen any fights against any of the "best" or even "good" IS mechs.

[Adiuvo]

Seph MacLeod, on 25 April 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

I am not saying they can't hold their own against the various clan mechs. What I am saying is I am sick of people saying the IS has nothing that can stand against the three (two) good mechs the Clans have. Yeah, the Crow and Timber could maybe use some adjusting, but We have several other mechs that would need to be helped out a lot more if it where to change the drop decks any.

The Nova is getting there, Not great, but it's doable, but even that will fold to IS mechs in a toe to toe. Nearly everything else is a joke though. I know sure as hell my Mad Dogs or Nova's aint winnen any fights against any of the "best" or even "good" IS mechs.

Does a Centurion have any chance of beating a Stormcrow? A Blackjack? A Vindicator? A Kintaro? A Trebuchet? Does a Cataphract have any chance of beating a Timberwolf? A Quickdraw? Catapult, Orion, Grasshopper?

I'd list all the rest, but I'd hope the point is clear.

[zagibu]

FupDup, on 25 April 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

That was my point.

I still want the Mist Lynx geometry as portrayed in the spoiler on the previous page though...but it's Lostech.

Spoiler

The reason for the space is that the hardpoint has to be able to fit a PPC, which has a larger diameter than the laser lens.

[Foxwalker]

DJ I know you have been playing the game for a long time, but really Clan mechs are bad? I could see you saying that if you had just switched from IS to Clan and had not had a chance to acclimate to the differences. They play differently, just that.

Also, I actually see PGI working toward balance with every pass. As that happens, there is bound to be imbalance one way or the other as they are trying to improve the experience.

I am liking the Nova for the first time right now.

[Bishop Steiner]

Adiuvo, on 25 April 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

Does a Centurion have any chance of beating a Stormcrow? A Blackjack? A Vindicator? A Kintaro? A Trebuchet? Does a Cataphract have any chance of beating a Timberwolf? A Quickdraw? Catapult, Orion, Grasshopper?

I'd list all the rest, but I'd hope the point is clear.

Sure they do. If the Stormcrow or Timby have bad pilots, and the IS Mechs have better ones. And let's be honest, there are a LOT of bad SCR and TBR pilots running around out there, lol.

(Mind you, I prefer to limit my bad piloting to SMNs, HBKs, CN9s and UMRs)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 25 April 2015 - 11:53 AM.

[Stealth Fox]

Adiuvo, on 25 April 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

Does a Centurion have any chance of beating a Stormcrow? A Blackjack? A Vindicator? A Kintaro? A Trebuchet? Does a Cataphract have any chance of beating a Timberwolf? A Quickdraw? Catapult, Orion, Grasshopper?

I'd list all the rest, but I'd hope the point is clear.

yes, yes yes yes... yes yes yes and yes?

You said "chance" and by that, yes they do, proper load out, good pilot and the right positioning? yeah.. yeah they do, I know Grasshoppers are a particular pain in the butt once they get in close and practically climb all around you. As IS do.

By the way, here's a hint, if you are main lining in a Treb or a Cata? ..you're doing them wrong.

And yes, yes complain about all the mechs that are not super super good and just ignore the fact..that ..once again.. you have more good mechs, then the Clan side does.

Oh and if Timbers really make you tremble in your underwear, you need to learn how to focus fire and call out locations. Not to mention most of those mechs have very very little armor on the back of them.

The only time I have ever had an "oh crap" reaction to seeing a Timber or Crow is when I am far far away from my allies and in a mid or trash tier mech for the fun of it. The previously listed mechs that have been listed so many times in this thread, are no such lower level mechs.

Edited for derps

Edited by Seph MacLeod, 25 April 2015 - 12:24 PM.

[Wildstreak]

I find the Clans are OP argument amazing.
Right now, the Tukayyid board shows
- Wolf with the highest score.
- Jade Falcon #2 tied with Kurita.
- Ghost Bear #3 tied with Stiener.
- Smoke Jaguar #4 tied with Rasalhague.
- Davion & Marik, big braggarts in the community, falling behind.
- Liao holding last.

Seems more of a Faction issue than one side's Mechs. During CW, Davion and Marik talked big about fighting Clans but had a rep for not fighting Clans much. Liao had the same but they have been maining a defense against Davion the whole time and never came across as a big Faction. Wolf lost territory to others but then came back and is now leading. Rasalhague, beaten down to a few planets, is tied with a Clan ahead of Davion & Marik.

Sorry but it seems some other factor is at work here than Clan Mechs are OP.

[Adiuvo]

Seph MacLeod, on 25 April 2015 - 11:54 AM, said:

yes, yes yes yes... yes yes yes and yes?

You said "chance" and by that, yes they do, proper load out, good pilot and the right positioning? yeah.. yeah they do, I know Grasshoppers are a particular pain in the butt once they get in close and practically climb all around you. As IS do.

By the way, here's a hint, if you are main lining in a Treb or a Cata? ..you're doing them wrong.

And yes, yes complain about all the mechs that are not super super good and just ignore the fact..that ..once again.. you have more good mechs, then the Clan side does.

Oh and if Timbers really make you tremble in your underwear, you need to learn how to focus fire and call out locations. Not to mention most of those mechs have very very little armor on the back of them.

The only time I have ever had an "oh crap" reaction to seeing a Timber or Crow is when I am far far away from my allies and in a mid or trash tier mech for the fun of it. The previously listed mechs that have been listed so many times in this thread, are no such lower level mechs.

Edited for derps

If you have to stack the conditions into a mechs favor, it's not the mech that's performing well. It's the pilot. With equally skilled pilots, those listed mechs will not beat their clan counterparts.

IS mechs are all outclassed by clans short of lights and the Stalker in one situation. This has been shown time and time again in competitive play between top tier teams. That people have to give a laundry list of exceptions to try and make the opposite case seem true says it all.

The Timberwolf is no more weak to focus fire or coordination than any other mech. It also doesn't intrinsically have less armor on its back, that's all user set so there is literally no point to be made there.

[Jman5]

DjPush, on 25 April 2015 - 05:47 AM, said:

Direwolves are non existant in CW which I think is a little strange. Well, not really I guess because PGI has made every map into a funnel of death assault mode zerg rush. (Ok so I have one complaint about CW). Which is a death sentance for the slow moving target.

It's not strange at all. Community Warfare has strict tonnage requirements making it difficult to fit a 100 ton direwolf into your drop deck. It's the same reason why you don't see many atlas and king crabs (despite the fact that IS has +10 ton handicap).

It has nothing to do with map layouts or engine speed.

[Ghogiel]

Adiuvo, on 25 April 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

Does a Centurion have any chance of beating a Stormcrow? A Blackjack? A Vindicator? A Kintaro? A Trebuchet? Does a Cataphract have any chance of beating a Timberwolf? A Quickdraw? Catapult, Orion, Grasshopper?

I'd list all the rest, but I'd hope the point is clear.

Well since neither of those are anywhere near the best IS med/heavy... not a chance in hell.

Edited by Ghogiel, 25 April 2015 - 12:39 PM.

[Zibmo]

Seph MacLeod, on 25 April 2015 - 07:00 AM, said:

Yes, the "let me stare right at you for a long long time while I slowly slather my damage all over you while I hope you don't have any IS weapons at all aimed at me and then have to run away behind cover for a minute to wait to start to cool down" power.

Yep - that one with the 54+ damage alpha. You poor, poor thing.

[One Medic Army]

Seph MacLeod, on 25 April 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

Yes, because a weapon that forces you to stand there, face the enemy longer, try not to spread the damage as much, and wait longer for heat to come down is SOOO much better then the instant high levels of damage IS are able to do. That makes sense.

Um, my Stormcrow vomits up a 48pt alpha, beam duration 1.15s, and has 21 DHS

None of my IS laserbarf mechs can get near that alpha power without incurring ghost heat, and only my Stalker has that many DHS backing it up.

If you poke out, alpha once or twice, and then get back behind cover it's far superior, just don't expect to face tank a heavy or assault because despite firepower to the contrary it's still a medium mech. That's the only downside I've found so far, it's still a 55tonner with the armor and structure to match.

Now my 6LL 3F stalker can vomit up endless 27pt 1.0s duration beams, or alpha once for 54pts and spike up about 60-70% heat. It's also 30tons heavier (with the armor and structure that goes with) and 43kph slower.

[Adiuvo]

Ghogiel, on 25 April 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

Well since neither of those are anywhere near the best IS med/heavy... not a chance in hell.

Best IS medium is a Wolverine 6K. Those lose to Stormcrows. EmP tested it in house for hours.

Best IS heavy is a Thunderbolt *5SS. Outranged, outdamaged, and generally outclassed by the clan options.

Edited by Adiuvo, 25 April 2015 - 01:05 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Adiuvo, on 25 April 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

Best IS medium is a Wolverine 6K. Those lose to Stormcrows. EmP tested it in house for hours.

Best IS heavy is a Thunderbolt 9S. Outranged, outdamaged, and generally outclassed by the clan options.

Is this recorded? Would be very interested to view this. I'm surprised it was the 9S to be honest.

Would have expected Grasshopper or 5SS tbh

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 25 April 2015 - 01:01 PM.

[Adiuvo]

Gas Guzzler, on 25 April 2015 - 01:01 PM, said:

Is this recorded? Would be very interested to view this. I'm surprised it was the 9S to be honest.

Would have expected Grasshopper or 5SS tbh

I think it was, but I'd have to ask heim if he still has the video.

I'm stupid, meant the 5SS >_>

Edited by Adiuvo, 25 April 2015 - 01:05 PM.

[Ghogiel]

Adiuvo, on 25 April 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

Best IS medium is a Wolverine 6K. Those lose to Stormcrows. EmP tested it in house for hours.

Best IS heavy is a Thunderbolt 9S. Outranged, outdamaged, and generally outclassed by the clan options.

We have the same conclusion.

The TBR out weighs the TDR by 10 tons so it's not surprising. I've beaten a top player with a TDR 5SS who was in a TBR in 1v1. Once lol.

Edited by Ghogiel, 25 April 2015 - 01:08 PM.