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How to become a pro LRM-Boat pilot

LRM guide

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#201 Catalina Steiner

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 06:30 AM

Target Decay vs. Radar Deprivation

The german community is preparing another part of our LRM workshop and I love to create videos for it. This time we wanted to have an evidence for Jman5's post. I will quote it here (it's from another thread):

View PostJman5, on 09 January 2016 - 05:55 PM, said:

Without Target decay against an opponent with Radar Deprivation you lose lock instantly.

Without Target Decay against a vanilla target you get about 2.25 seconds after losing Line of Sight before you lose lock.

With Advanced Target Decay against a vanilla target, you get something like 4.75 seconds after losing line of sight before you lose lock.

With Advanced Target Decay against a target with Radar Deprivation you get about 2.25 seconds after losing line of sight before you lose lock

However the mechanics are technically working, it helps to just think of it as if the two modules nullify each other and bring you back to base values. Its possible these numbers might be off by +/- 0.25 seconds since I tested this stuff by hand with a stop watch, but you guys get the idea.


There is no big doubt that Jman is right here but I wanted an evidence for that. It shall be obvious and viewable for everyone. Here are the videos and the results.
Target Decay vs. Radar Deprivation, four short videos with detailled comments. If you want to have the perfect proof, watch them.

Both mechs without module


Target with Radar Deprivation


LRM Mech with Adv. Target Decay


Both mechs with modules



This is the summary video, without the detailed comments.


#202 Catalina Steiner

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 11:11 AM

All off-topic posts removed.

Edit: this was written for one guy and one guy only.
Nothing against Triordinant, Leone, Gladosaur and WarHippy. Sorry that I had to remove your replies too. But it was too much off-topic. Thanks for understanding.

Edited by Catalina Steiner, 25 May 2016 - 11:30 AM.


#203 Leone

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 11:14 AM

Fair enough. Keep up the good work!

~Leone.

#204 GLaDOSauR

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 11:34 AM

<(-.-)

#205 zudukai

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 11:51 AM

View PostCatalina Steiner, on 25 May 2016 - 06:30 AM, said:

Target Decay vs. Radar Deprivation
*snip*


sure paints a clear picture on how necessary the target decay module is.

#206 Neput Z34

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 01:47 PM

"Word of advice to all you LuRM spamming scumbags disturbing my peace, WoB-WoB that's the sound of the mech-police" / sarcasm

On a serious note, if you are running an LRM boat, fit BAP/ Clan Active Probe, Target Decay and Radar Depravation. Because receiving return LRM fire sucks, if you are not under ECM. May be even throw in an AMS with a 0.5 tons of ammo if you got room.

Also highly recommended to bring 2~5 lasers as back up weapons, because people will try to get under you minimum 200m range. Some what less of a factor with Clan LRMs, but highly recommended to bring some short range weapons: like Clan Small/ Pulse Lasers or CSRMs.

IS Examples: HBK-4J, CPLT-1C, CPLT-C1 Ver.2,

Clan Examples: WHK-B

#207 no one

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 02:26 PM

View PostCatalina Steiner, on 29 April 2015 - 09:12 AM, said:

Posted Image


There are a couple of things that are fundamentally screwy about the way LRMs in MWO are implemented and this is one of them. Instead of each cluster of 5 LRMs focusing on a different section of a 'Mech like streaks they all home in on the center torso. Streaks used to do that too, and the 'Mechanic was changed because it made them brokenly overpowered.

The only reason this does not make LRMs brokenly overpowered is how slow and unfocused they are, but in the specific case of a well quirked 'Mech with a number of hard points for LRM5s the problem creeps back in.

Solution - I'd say there should be no difference between the spread of a 5 missile cluster launched from an LRM5 and a 5 missile cluster launched from an LRM20. Just have the missile clusters track different components of a 'Mech like streaks. That way you don't get as much 'barn door' effect from LRM impacts when driving something like an Awesome.

AMS should also not kill every single LRM in a 5 LRM cluster. AMS should take out 3 or four missiles, max. That way massed AMS coverage cuts down on the effectiveness of massed LRMs evenly without being completely useless or an impenetrable umbrella against light LRM fire.

Do those things, increase LRM speed, increase IDF spread and you'd go a long way to solving a lot of the LRM balance issues.

(Oh, and direct-fire Artemis LRMs should track to whatever is under your reticule unless you have a hard lock on another target. Having direct fire be completely dumb-fire is, well... dumb. )

Edited by no one, 25 May 2016 - 02:28 PM.


#208 Karl the Plumber

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 08:56 AM

Hey just wanted to say thanks for this guide. I don't LURM very much, but I'm working on mastering all the IS mechs and this thread has really helped me get the best out of a lot of chassis. It would have taken me FOREVER to grind out the XP on mechs like my Kintaro 19 on my own.

Edited by Karl the Plumber, 30 May 2016 - 08:56 AM.


#209 Chados

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 01:50 AM

My best LRM mech is a Zeus-6T, one LL, 3ML, 3 ALRM-10. In my mind, the Radar Deprivation, Advanced Target Delay, and LRM-10 Range Level 5 modules, and AMS, are not optional. ATD lets you do all sorts of LRM tricks like rocket-bending around obstacles (which I learned how to do from this post), because you hold lock for a bit when reticle is off-target.

My preferred weapons systems are the PPC (not ER...just the PPC) and AC/10. But LRMing is still fun. Thanks for the updates, Catalina. I still need to hook up with VAR for a group-queue slog one day soon :)

#210 Chados

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 09:54 AM

And now, after a year in the game, I add my own advice.

LRMishing: The Art of LRM Skirmishing. I advocate the long-range missile as a front-line weapon, akin to Napoleon's artillery or the Wehrmacht's highly mobile artillery in the Second World War. I argue against LRM boating and exclusive LRMing at maximum range. I argue for LRMing up close and personal, within 250-450 meters where possible. Suicide, you say? No. For many reasons.

These are Chados' PUG-LRMisher Maxims:

1) Thirty tubes. No more, no less. Thirty shall be the number of the counting, and the number counted shall be 30. Forty shalt thou not count, neither count thou twenty, except that thou proceedst directly to THIRTY.

I typically get here with two LRM15 or three LRM10. Why 30? Trial and error leads me to believe that a LRM-30 mech retains maximum flexibility. Twenty tubes or less is largely ineffective unless you're a heavy or assault mech using one rack as an indirect fire solution for when the enemy drops over a ridge or something. A LRM-40+ carrier leads to the issue of boating. I say that boating is a sin for the LRMisher because you need backup weapons. "But Chados," you may say, "what of the A1 Catapult or other mechs that only have missile hardpoints? Aren't they made for boating?" I answer no. The SRM is a key backup weapon. That leads me to:

2) Thou shalt not boat.

I shudder when I see a Vulture or Catapult A1 with nothing but LRM-5s. And every Spider driver in the land jumps for joy when he or she sees it. Clans get away with it because C-LRMs do damage at short range. Inner Sphere pilots are committing short-term suicide by giving up any ability to fight inside 180 meters. The dreaded LRM-5 boat is very popular. And it notches high damage, too. But it also is the most vulnerable, least armed, and requires the most standing still and shooting of all LRM packages. It takes time to pour all those chain-fired LRM-5s on target, and the one dimensional nature of the build is a prime reason why it is so denigrated. Add to this the fact that AMS is a hard counter to the LRM-5. As long as there is at least one AMS on the other side, a LRM-5 chain won't hit jack. Ten of the 15 ALRM-15 salvo WILL hit, however. In Catalina's videos above, showing how advanced target delay works, you can see an AMS-equipped target wholly negating a Griffin carrying 4xLRM-5.

LRMishers are the most hated pilots in the land. The appearance of a Catapult on the field will cause every enemy mech from the Kodiak down to the Commando to drop everything it is doing and every enemy it is facing to pursue the Catapult. Driving the A1 Cat in particular, I have had light mechs mounting ER Large Lasers stalk me relentlessly across the battlefield, ignoring every other threat. They close in for the kill...and then find out I'm packing a Streak-8 with Level 5 range module along with the two Artemis LRM-15s. Surprise! Because I don't boat. They just assume that you do and it can be their undoing.

Boaters can't get in the fight and support assault and heavy mechs on the firing line. If you have credible secondaries, you can engage from brawling distance and support both with LRM salvoes and SRM salvoes together. Only ballistics cause as much fire and cockpit shake. It will give that friendly Atlas or Kodiak a chance to exfiltrate from a bad place while the enemy turns its attention to you. It can change the battle.

3) Thou shalt be mobile.

A LRMisher who is standing still is a dead LRMisher. You need to move, 65-68kph at least. Equip jump jets, because mobility needs to be in all six directions. Escaping over a rise, hiding high in buildings, dropping in behind a bad guy in a firefight to fire with your SRMs or lasers, jets make all of this possible. Standing still and LRMing 600 meters behind the fight is like hanging a neon sign over your head that says "free lunch" for every Stormcrow and Jenner on the map. Move around the edge of the scrum. Fire as you move. Step into the fight and share your armor as needed. Bad guys will shoot at you before they shoot at a Kodiak or Dire Wolf or Atlas. Distract them so your teammates rack up kills.

4) Thou shalt take one for the team.

If you're not measuring your success by assists rather than damage or kills, then you're not a true LRMisher. The point of and goal of LRMing is team support. The LRMisher is the ultimate team player. You depend on your teammates for recon and locks. Pay it forward by putting missiles on their target. Don't ask for locks, you shouldn't need to. Shoot at what they are locking up. Carry UAVs and use them. If you can use TAG and have the energy slot to spare, then pack it. I've given thought to carrying NARC over one of my secondary weapons, even. Also, no LRM is going to have a hit rate higher than about 35%. Too many things cause them to miss. Lost locks, bad terrain, ECM, radar deprivation...LRMs have more hard counters than any other weapon system and aggressive play is mandatory with them. And get used to the fact that your team will hate you and your contributions won't be recognized. That's life with LRMs. They're glad when you're with them, but they'll never tell you.

5) Thy modules and peripherals are all-important.

I carry a LRM range module, a range module for my secondary weapons, radar deprivation, and advanced target decay. I also carry an active probe, and I use Artemis. I carry the LRM range module because in the opening stages of some matches, ringing the enemy's missile alarm will cause them to play cautious and give my team the initiative. Domination on Polar Highlands is the greatest example. The secondary weapons to me are all-important and I want to hit with them as far out as I can. Advanced target decay is a no-brainer, as with it you can hold locks for a time even in an ECM environment and do missile tricks like shooting over or around obstacles. And go Artemis or go home. An Artemis-LRM15 gets locks faster and holds them longer. And if you have a sight lock (you can see the bad guy), it will tighten your groups. The Beagle Active Probe will negate one ECM inside 360 meters and extend your sensor range. Combine it with the Advanced Seismic Sensor and credible secondary weapons like the Streak SRM8 (4xSSRM2), and ECM carriers like the Spider, Commando, Locust PB, and Raven 3L go from hunter to hunted. Artemis helps even SSRMs with lock timing.

LRMishing is fun. It's fast paced, and it's a challenge. Good LRM use is difficult in MWO, especially as you rise in tier and play with better players. But the system is viable if properly used and can be a force multiplier if the pilot isn't hiding at the end of the map. Leave that to the gauss snipers.

Edited by Chados, 05 June 2016 - 10:04 AM.


#211 Horseman

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 03:06 AM

View PostCatalina Steiner, on 29 April 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

IS assault mechs

"Assault LRM support" - Victor with 2xLRM10. VTR-9K

"Assault LRM-Boat" - THE! LRM-Boat. Battlemaster with 2xLRM10 and 2xLRM15. Everything but 1000 damage is embarrassing. BLR-1S

"Assault LRM-Boat" - Classic Stalker with 2xLRM10 and 2xLRM15. STK-3F
Why no love for the AWS-8R? (EDIT: I now found it mentioned on page 2, my bad) It has 15% LRM-15 cooldown on top of general 15% missile cooldown plus another 12% from module, with fast fire that amounts to a 47% CDR on LRM-15s (or 2s LRM-15 cooldown), 15% missile heat generation and 10% missile velocity.
This build provides spam of 22.5 missiles per second and about 6 full 2s cycles till max heat. The amount of ammo is sufficient to last most of of a match if you're at least reasonably discerning as to when and what at you spam it, as opposed to the the "obvious" quad-15 version that graduates from a boat to a boat anchor (aka dead weight) halfway through.

Compare with the builds above: VTR-9K 20 missiles every 3 seconds (6.7 missiles per second), BLR-1s 20 missiles every 2.5s and 30 missiles every 2.7s for about 19 missiles per second and STK-3F 20 missiles every 2.7s and 30 missiles every 2.9s for about 18 missiles per second, and all with fairly limited ammo.

TL;DR: if you love LRMs, try AWS-8R with 3xLRM-15s and TAG. You'll love it.

View PostCatalina Steiner, on 29 April 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

You are a support mech. This is the hardest part to get over: you will rarely dominate a game in this role. That's the thing you have to understand - you are a SUPPORT mech: you support your team, not dominate it. What this means is that you will usually not be raking in the kills or the C-bills, but you will be helping your team win matches.
Dawnstealer
My experience is somewhat different - fairly often I end up with 3-4 kills, mostly solo, and a couple more KMDDs.

Edited by Horseman, 14 February 2017 - 03:49 AM.


#212 Horseman

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 01:48 AM

[Redacted]

View PostHorseman, on 14 February 2017 - 03:06 AM, said:

Why no love for the AWS-8R? (EDIT: I now found it mentioned on page 2, my bad) It has 15% LRM-15 cooldown on top of general 15% missile cooldown plus another 12% from module, with fast fire that amounts to a 47% CDR on LRM-15s (or 2s LRM-15 cooldown), 15% missile heat generation and 10% missile velocity.
This build provides spam of 22.5 missiles per second and about 6 full 2s cycles till max heat. The amount of ammo is sufficient to last most of of a match if you're at least reasonably discerning as to when and what at you spam it, as opposed to the the "obvious" quad-15 version that graduates from a boat to a boat anchor (aka dead weight) halfway through.

Updated build for newtech, skill tree and dequirkening! The amount of missile vomit is less absurd now (with only 30% cooldown, which equates to 16 missiles per second), but it's still quite effective if you run it right (protip: use your TAG, lock your own targets for TAG and Artemis bonuses)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...26aa946ffb8de66

https://kitlaan.gitl...7a118#s=Weapons

Edited by draiocht, 03 January 2018 - 12:58 PM.
Quote Clean-Up, reference, unconstructive replies removed






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