80 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

=OK First The Topic=
First this Topic applies to Both IS & Clan Omni-Mechs,
though we dont have any IS Omni-Mechs right now in MWO,
its very likely we will at some point in the near future,
-
allot of people would like more Options with Omni-mechs,
many feel that any Omni-Mech with out Endo isnt worth taking,
but many also feel all Omni-Mechs shouldnt be able to Truly upgrade
-
so how to allow more for Omni-Mechs but still keep them Omni-Mechs
this Idea is a simple Upgrade Switch for all Omni-Mechs,


=Omni-Mech Upgrade Swapping=
this Simply allowing Omni-Mechs to Swap their Ferro upgrade for Endo,
in this case the Slots the Endo takes up will replace the Slots Ferro Took up,
this will allow Omni-Mechs the Option to Switch Upgrades(Lose Ferro=Gain Endo),
wail still maintaining their Aspects as non Upgradable Omni-mechs,
-Swapping Fluff-
"as to please the TrueBorn Pilots, wanting differing Upgrades on their Omni-Mechs,
most Clan Factories began working on Special Conversion bays for these Omni-Mechs,
however because of how Omni-Mechs are constructed, Pod based and modular,
Upgrades may not be removed or added only be Swapped, one for another,
this Conversion and Modification Process could take up to a year,"

,Current Mechs that have Ferro and could switch it to Endo,
MDD(8.5Tons of Armor)= -Ferro(-1Ton) +Endo(+3tons)= +2Tons After Switch,
SMN(9.5Tons of Armor)= -Ferro(-1.25Ton) +Endo(+3.5tons)= +2.25Tons After Switch,
GAR(11Tons of Armor)= -Ferro(-1.5Ton) +Endo(+4tons)= +2.5Tons After Switch,
WHK(14Tons of Armor)= -Ferro(-1.75Ton) +Endo(+4tons)= +2.25Tons After Switch,
EXE(14Tons of Armor)= -Ferro(-1.75Ton) +Endo(+4.5tons)= +2.75Tons After Switch,
the 2.5 Extra Tons Can & Will be Useful for All Ammo Dependent Mech Builds

Twitter said:

AndrewPappas ‏@AndiNagasia 4h4 hours ago
@russ_bullock YourThoughts on beingAble toSwitch(Ferro for Endo)on Omnis?(it will only add 2tons toMDD/SMN/GAR/WHK)&it doesnt break rules?..

AndrewPappas ‏@AndiNagasia 2h2 hours ago
@russ_bullock not pushing, just saying that its not Breaking the Rules more Bending them for Balance, i know that PGI will do whats best,

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 1h1 hour ago
@AndiNagasia so you don't want both you want a trade from FF to endo

AndrewPappas ‏@AndiNagasia 56m56 minutes ago
@russ_bullock correct, a less an Upgrade more a Choice like Artemus, Ferro or Endo(switching to Endo could give +2Tons to MDD/SMN/GAR/WHK)..

=Story of Canon=
Ranna Kerensky had a WHK named Lupus which could have had Endo instead of Ferro,
her Death was when A freak strike to the cockpit of her WHK killed Ranna Kerensky instantly.
-
according to TT, OmniMechs cant change how much armor they have,
in this case a WHK has 14Tons of Armor but with Ferro it also Gains 10% more,
if Lupus had Endo Instead of Ferro it'd have 10% less armor than that Standard WHK,
which her GM allowed, i believe it was this and a Crit that lead to the Pilots death,
-
as the BattleTech Novels are based on actual TT games, im looking to those sources,
looking up the actual GM's, People, and Games of which the stories where written of off,
if Lupus(WHK) had MoreTonnage@LessArmor, im assuming it would be a Ferro/Endo Swap,


=Additional Omni-Mech Equipment Unlocks=
the removal of Locked CAP on the MistLynks(+1Ton),
the removal of Locked Flamer on the Adder,(PGI Given),
the removal of Locked MASC on the ShadowCat(+2Tons),
the removal of Locked MASC on the Executioner(+4Tons),


=Balancing Ferro to Endo=

Spoiler

perhaps just simple Quirks could be used to balance them,
in this case a simple 10% Armor Bonus or Penalty to all locations,
Ferro getting a +10% Armor Bonus, & Endo getting a -10% Armor Penalty,
Adding both will Nullify the disadvantage at the cost of valuable Space,

Ferro Bonus
All Ferro Equipped Mechs gain a their normal Tonnage Savings,
but they also will gain a +10% Armor Bonus to all locations,
-Ferro Fluff-
"not only is Ferro Armor lighter but due to its construction more Flexabile,
in so increasing its Durability, this Flex allows it to Hold to hold better to a Chassis,
taking Impacts and Heat much better than Normal Armor at a cost of Space,"

Endo Penalty-
All Endo Equiped Mechs gain a their normal Tonnage Savings,
but they also will gain a -10% Armor Penalty to all locations,
-Endo Fluff-
"although an Endo Structure is very Light it also has a Couple Drawbacks,
Endo is less Durable than Standard structure, and is weak to External Vibrations,
Impacts and Heat will cause the Endo Structure to Flex weakening attached Armor,
however Endos weight saving still makes it a good Choice, Weight at a cost of Space,"

=Concusion=
with This i feel this is needed more than ever,
also allowing a Switch isnt against TT OmniMech Construction Rules,
as they only state that an OmniMechs must have Certain Points Fixed,
this is a Switch so its not actually Changing the number of Fixed Points,
and so this would not be against the OmniMech Construction Rules,


i would like hear peoples thoughts,
Are you For these Changes for Omni-Mechs?
Are you Against these Changes for Omni-Mechs?
-
i know Omni-Mechs can switch out their hard-points,
but remember IS Battle-Mechs do have Hard-point inflation,
-
please remember to keep an open mind about Lore Rules,
as most MechWarrior games Lore Construction Rules dont apply,
Remember this isnt TT this is MechWarrior, and Customization is Key,
in Lore Battle-Mechs where much more restrictive than Omni-Mechs,


Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

Edit- Notes
Edit2- Additions Unlocked
Edit3- Fluff Added
Edi4- SCR&TBR Nerf
Edit5- Twitter Comments
Edit6- Story of Canon
Edit7- Adder Flamer Unlocked
Edit8- Exe Added to LineUp

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 30 October 2015 - 01:15 PM.

[Pjwned]

Why not instead fix the underlying problem of Ferro Fibrous armor being terrible?

[Mcgral18]

It's the smallest buff that's required for most of those robots.

[Ragtag soldier]

have you still not registered that your not being able to cram everything you want into the design doesn't mean there's any problem with the chassis? anyone saying an omnimech without endo is bad is just not good at the game and whinging about how the mech isn't optimized enough to carry them and their **** skills.

if you were REALLY complaining that mechs don't have enough ammo, you'd realize that we didn't get an ammo per ton buff to match the armor buff. so it's like we're fighting with halved ammo in this game. stop playing.

[Andi Nagasia]

Pjwned, on 29 April 2015 - 02:44 PM, said:

Why not instead fix the underlying problem of Ferro Fibrous armor being terrible?

i agree personally i think Ferro should get a 10% damage reductions when used without Endo,
but its unlikely that Ferro will reworked anytime soon, as to how long its taking for ECM,ect,

which is why im suggesting this Ferro to Endo Swap,
as it will still feel different than MWO Battle-Mechs,
and still feeling like a MWO Omni-Mechs,

[InspectorG]

Im on it

http://mwomercs.com/...irks-for-ferro/

Simple fix. No blanket buffs. Win.

[Mcgral18]

Ragtag soldier, on 29 April 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

have you still not registered that your not being able to cram everything you want into the design doesn't mean there's any problem with the chassis? anyone saying an omnimech without endo is bad is just not good at the game and whinging about how the mech isn't optimized enough to carry them and their **** skills.

if you were REALLY complaining that mechs don't have enough ammo, you'd realize that we didn't get an ammo per ton buff to match the armor buff. so it's like we're fighting with halved ammo in this game. stop playing.

We did get an ammo per ton buff.


Ferro is objectively worse than Endo; there is no subjective aspect to it. It's worse, period.


Saying a robot should be worse, just because, is a silly reasoning. What are you on about? Why do you want to keep bad mechs bad, and not even TRY to make them better?

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I'd rather see standard structure give internals a 10-20% boost to hitpoints. Then you can throw FF on as a weight saving method. So do you want the large weight savings of Endo at the cost of standard number of internal health? Or do you want to take standard structure for a boost to internal health at the cost of having less available tonnage?

Tl; dr, give a reason for standard structure to exist and you'll see a rise in the usage of ferro.

*idea is the courtesy of 1453R

[Ragtag soldier]

Mcgral18, on 29 April 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

We did get an ammo per ton buff.

not nearly to scale with the armor buff though. keep the omni upgrades locked, and puff ammo, much better idea than letting people cheese out the holy trinity even more.

i'm starting to think you people just suck too much to understand how to thor.

[Andi Nagasia]

Ragtag soldier, on 29 April 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

not nearly to scale with the armor buff though. keep the omni upgrades locked, and puff ammo, much better idea than letting people cheese out the holy trinity even more.

i'm starting to think you people just suck too much to understand how to thor.

its not just about Ammo but about Tonnage,
if you Globally buff all Ammo Amounts than what changed?
Nothing, Why? because a Global Ammo Buff is a Global Buff,

if you have an Under-preforming Unit(anygame) doubling the Hp of all Unit wont make it better,
it will just have Double Hp but everything has Double Hp so the Buff is redundant,

so in trying to insight a change i feel will add more Freedom to Omni-mechs,
and allow them to be buffed and still be considered Omni-Mechs within MWO Lore,

your thoughtful Insight to what some see as a problem is L2P?
Thanks for the insight, but i dont think that will work for most of us,

[Mcgral18]

Ragtag soldier, on 29 April 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

not nearly to scale with the armor buff though. keep the omni upgrades locked, and puff ammo, much better idea than letting people cheese out the holy trinity even more.

i'm starting to think you people just suck too much to understand how to thor.

That's just it...it won't cheese the God Tier robots.

Buffing their ammo will (LOL), you do realize that? You are suggesting exactly what you are saying you want to avoid.

It's laughable.

[Andi Nagasia]

Still though this would Work with keeping Omni-Mechs feeling Different than Battle-Mechs,
as its not an Upgrade but a SideGrade, Losing Ferro-Armor and gaining Endo-Structure,
also helping these 4 mechs with the best help ever! Tonnage, even if its just 2tons,

[Andi Nagasia]

Added Fluff as well as a Balancing Idea or Ferro/Endo, that will not benefit Min-Maxing

[Ragtag soldier]

Mcgral18, on 29 April 2015 - 04:51 PM, said:

That's just it...it won't cheese the God Tier robots.

Buffing their ammo will (LOL), you do realize that? You are suggesting exactly what you are saying you want to avoid.

It's laughable.

man, the top-grade omnis barely even USE ammo-dependant weapons.

i understand you're not bright, but literally nobody is dumb enough to think letting omnimechs flat out lose their tradeoff for being omnis is somehow balancing. you two goons need stop spamming this crap.

[Water Bear]

I don't assume that PGI intends to reuse the same omni mech restrictions for IS mechs as they do clans. It might be that...hold our breath, here...the omni restrictions for clan mechs were used to balance them.

IS omni mechs won't need that additional nerf. In all likelihood.

[Yokaiko]

Boy, something about glad houses and stones.....

[Ragtag soldier]

Water Bear, on 01 May 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

I don't assume that PGI intends to reuse the same omni mech restrictions for IS mechs as they do clans. It might be that...hold our breath, here...the omni restrictions for clan mechs were used to balance them.

IS omni mechs won't need that additional nerf. In all likelihood.

no, it's canon that that's how omnimechs work. the internal structure, powerplant, gyros and such are all designed to work within a VERY narrow specification to that all sorts of weapons could be mounted in "pods" thea plug into the 'mech without needing to be calibrated and hardwired and such. they're like apple products that way, everything inside is fixed and not designed to be modified, but the accesories are plug and play.

[RAM]

Mcgral18, on 29 April 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

We did get an ammo per ton buff.

Unfortunately not an equivalent buff to the armour. Double armour should equate double ammo


Double Armour; Double Ammo!


RAM
ELH

[Mcgral18]

Ragtag soldier, on 01 May 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

man, the top-grade omnis barely even USE ammo-dependant weapons.

i understand you're not bright, but literally nobody is dumb enough to think letting omnimechs flat out lose their tradeoff for being omnis is somehow balancing. you two goons need stop spamming this crap.

You don't understand how an extra two heatsinks on the Gauss Timby won't be a boon?

How a Dakka OR Gauss Whale will benefit with either even more ammo or heatsinks or lasers?



Please, at least TRY to think before typing something. A blanket buff isn't the same thing as a targeted buff. You are suggesting the first, while I am suggesting to buff the Bad robots.


I know thinking is hard, but please at least try.

[Yokaiko]

Ragtag soldier, on 01 May 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

no, it's canon that that's how omnimechs work. the internal structure, powerplant, gyros and such are all designed to work within a VERY narrow specification to that all sorts of weapons could be mounted in "pods" thea plug into the 'mech without needing to be calibrated and hardwired and such. they're like apple products that way, everything inside is fixed and not designed to be modified, but the accesories are plug and play.

Yeah, so about battlemechs being able to deal anything.

And engines are supposed to be divisible by the chassis weight, so 100 toners should only be able to do 100, 200, 300, 400.

Meaning they all optimally run 300s.