307 replies to this topic

[Ace Selin]

Black Knight could have been really good. The torso mounts at collar level. Add a PGI version with a ballistic(s) hardpoint. And there you have a mech people will want and with the Mauler (& iconic Crab mech) a pack much more people would buy. Good for us gamers and PGI. With the Black Knight as it is PGI didnt do themselves any favors selling the Resistance 2 pack.





As to this....

Yosharian, on 03 May 2015 - 12:13 AM, said:

Until PGI start being consistent in their approach to quirks, the game won't be balanced.

The game isnt balanced because of Clan mechs (Stormcrow, Timberwolf & Direwolf) being the strongest mechs in their weight classes. IS mechs need to be buffed (some by large amounts) to be able to simply compete with these 3 mechs, hence the IS quirks which have managed to do that.

Edited by Ace Selin, 03 May 2015 - 05:57 AM.

[Yosharian]

Ace Selin, on 03 May 2015 - 05:48 AM, said:

The game isnt balanced because of Clan mechs (Stormcrow, Timberwolf & Direwolf) being the strongest mechs in their weight classes. IS mechs need to be buffed (some by large amounts) to be able to simply compete with these 3 mechs, hence the IS quirks which have managed to do that.

My point was that some mechs are being brought up to Clan level, for example the 5SS has been buffed in order to compete with Clan laser vomit builds, while other IS mechs are floundering in the dirt, forgotten and unloved. The Highlander for example is a complete joke, even after the relative buff that was the 3 large laser family ghost heat change.

PGI needs to be consistent in their approach to quirks across all chassis', instead of buffing some correctly while leaving others in the dirt.

And I'm including the ******** clan mechs such as the Nova in that statement.

Edited by Yosharian, 03 May 2015 - 08:44 AM.

[Gyrok]

Ace Selin, on 03 May 2015 - 05:48 AM, said:

The game isnt balanced because of Clan mechs (Stormcrow, Timberwolf & Direwolf) being the strongest mechs in their weight classes. IS mechs need to be buffed (some by large amounts) to be able to simply compete with these 3 mechs, hence the IS quirks which have managed to do that.

You are smoking something....

much of the top tier comp community will now agree that IS mechs are either on par with clans, or they are slightly stronger depending on who you ask and what mech/build.

Which means that clans are in fact on level ground or at a slight disadvantage.

[Gas Guzzler]

Gyrok, on 03 May 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

You are smoking something....

much of the top tier comp community will now agree that IS mechs are either on par with clans, or they are slightly stronger depending on who you ask and what mech/build.

Which means that clans are in fact on level ground or at a slight disadvantage.

What elements of the top tier community think that? All the ones I have seen talk about this agree that Clan mechs are at least slightly superior, and this is shown in that most of their competitive drop decks consist of primarily clan mechs, with the exception of lights.

[lsp]

Chef Kerensky, on 30 April 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

The crab also has a relatively low profile with a comfortable cruising speed and a nice max engine size. If its hitboxes look anything like a stalker it'll have nice torsos to shield with as well. Give it LL or LPL quirks and it might turn out to be a really good mech for its tonnage.

The mauler is a joke mech

Mauler was my favorite mech in mw4. And it's decent in MW LL.

NGRT, on 30 April 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

We thought the tbr would be DOA because of the ears as well. I assume the missile hunches on the mauler will disappear without missiles equipped.

I hope not, otherwise it's not a mauler, and they should be larger actually. I don't really like the MWO art for the Mauler. Missle racks shouldn't count as ST anyway, they should have their own hitboxes. Makes no sense.

Edited by lsp, 03 May 2015 - 09:44 AM.

[lsp]

Gas Guzzler, on 01 May 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

I mean.. people said the 'hopper was going to be DoA and its probably one of the best IS heavies now.. behind maybe the TDR-5SS. I even thought it was going to be meh after seeing the quirks, but I love the 5H now.

If the BK gets useful quirks (probably between the 5SS and what the hopper got because it has no JJs) it will be far from DoA.

No it's not, it's best variant is T3. http://metamechs.com...-lists/is-list/ And that's only among other IS mechs. It's not even on the competitive list at all. Aka, only pugers use the grasshopper.

Edited by lsp, 03 May 2015 - 10:02 AM.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

awww yissss moar wubssssss

[Vassago Rain]

Gyrok, on 03 May 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

You are smoking something....

much of the top tier comp community will now agree that IS mechs are either on par with clans, or they are slightly stronger depending on who you ask and what mech/build.

Which means that clans are in fact on level ground or at a slight disadvantage.

Gyrok, you can barely win CW drops, let alone qualify as a 'comp' player. Hell, even I'm more comp than you.

I can ask any of them right this second if clan is better, and they'll all say 'yes.' That's why when it gets down to it, they'll be in madcats, stormcrows, and daishis. Soon, the arctic cheater will be added to the mix.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 03 May 2015 - 10:26 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

lsp, on 03 May 2015 - 10:00 AM, said:

No it's not, it's best variant is T3. http://metamechs.com...-lists/is-list/ And that's only among other IS mechs. It's not even on the competitive list at all. Aka, only pugers use the grasshopper.

I don't think I have ever copied a build from that list, and I never said it was actually competitive but it does seem to be pretty effective, and isn't a glass cannon like the Dragon-1N.

That list is not the MWO bible of builds. Keep that in mind.

[Telmasa]

El Bandito, on 03 May 2015 - 04:40 AM, said:

Funny, that's what I thought about the Crow and the Timbie once I mastered them. Those Clan mechs were in fact so easy-mode, I stopped playing them soon afterwards. Big waste of 100 million C-Bills.

Clearly all 3 mechs need nerfs.

Easymode in what way? Unless all you did was literally ERML/streak-6-only builds, I don't really get it.

Back before quirks, were those mechs superior? Yes. That's a given.

After quirks? No. IS got superquirked to the point of ridiculousness (seriously, choosing to use the fake tiering system screwed everything up with quirks), so that not only does no other IS mech not blessed with superquirks have a chance of competing, the Clan mechs have lost every single one of their advantages (range, alpha damage) while the IS did received zero trade-offs.

IS mechs did need a little bit of help & role definition - but there's no way anything deserves buffing past 15% in any variable.

If you took a Vulture & gave it 50% ballistics cooldown with UAC/5s, that would be OP as hell. Yet everyone says the Dragon-1N is "balanced".

If you took a Hellbringer and gave it 50% range with CMPLs, with heat and cooldown and burn time quirks to boot, that would be OP as hell (or imagine the old 9S quirks with clan ERPPCs...).

If you took a Nova and gave it 50% cooldown with a gauss rifle, even if it were mounted down in the arm that would still be OP as *hell*.

If you took the Warhawk and gave it burn reduction on CERLL with heat/range/cooldown quirks in there too, that would be OP as *hell*.

If you took the Adder and gave it 50% beam duration cooldown and 40% heat reduction and whatnot else, that would be OP as *hell*.

Why is it OK for the IS tonnage-equivalents to get away with all of that? Because there's more IS pilots to complain than there are Clan ones? Come on.

[El Bandito]

Telmasa, on 04 May 2015 - 05:32 PM, said:

Easymode in what way? Unless all you did was literally ERML/streak-6-only builds, I don't really get it.

Back before quirks, were those mechs superior? Yes. That's a given.

After quirks? No. IS got superquirked to the point of ridiculousness (seriously, choosing to use the fake tiering system screwed everything up with quirks), so that not only does no other IS mech not blessed with superquirks have a chance of competing, the Clan mechs have lost every single one of their advantages (range, alpha damage) while the IS did received zero trade-offs.

IS mechs did need a little bit of help & role definition - but there's no way anything deserves buffing past 15% in any variable.

If you took a Vulture & gave it 50% ballistics cooldown with UAC/5s, that would be OP as hell. Yet everyone says the Dragon-1N is "balanced".

If you took a Hellbringer and gave it 50% range with CMPLs, with heat and cooldown and burn time quirks to boot, that would be OP as hell (or imagine the old 9S quirks with clan ERPPCs...).

If you took a Nova and gave it 50% cooldown with a gauss rifle, even if it were mounted down in the arm that would still be OP as *hell*.

If you took the Warhawk and gave it burn reduction on CERLL with heat/range/cooldown quirks in there too, that would be OP as *hell*.

If you took the Adder and gave it 50% beam duration cooldown and 40% heat reduction and whatnot else, that would be OP as *hell*.

Why is it OK for the IS tonnage-equivalents to get away with all of that? Because there's more IS pilots to complain than there are Clan ones? Come on.

Which is why I wrote this in another thread. Many IS quirks need to be rolled back and Timbie and Crow need to be nerfed at the same time.

El Bandito, on 24 April 2015 - 06:27 PM, said:

My 2 cents:

1. Many IS mechs are over-quirked to the point of ridiculousness. I think IS quirks in general needs to be toned down and only the mechs that need it to perform "averagely" should have them. Like, the Locust, or 5V.

2. Certain Clan mechs such as the Crow and the Timbie needs to have some negative quirks to bring them in line with the others. Cause as long as they dominate the scene, balancing the Clans as a whole is not gonna happen.

You can also try to bring other Clan mechs to Crow/Timbie level via quirks but that will mean overabundance of quirks for many Clan mechs, resulting in the same mess IS mechs are in right now. So NERF Crow and Timbie.

Keep it simple stupid.

[Lightfoot]

I keep say the Bandersnatch or Hammerhands is a good fit for MWO's dynamics. Both 75 tons with at least 3 variants and Hero mechs and the Bandersnatch has an ECM variant. The BND-01Ar. 3053, but we are almost there if we are doing Tukkiyad.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I still think it's just going to be a 75 ton Awesome 8Q...

DOA, Quirked to Life.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lightfoot, on 04 May 2015 - 07:34 PM, said:

I keep say the Bandersnatch or Hammerhands is a good fit for MWO's dynamics. Both 75 tons with at least 3 variants and Hero mechs and the Bandersnatch has an ECM variant. The BND-01Ar. 3053, but we are almost there if we are doing Tukkiyad.

bandersnatch would be the first IS heavy I got excited about since the glory days of the K2. 2 Ballistics, 6 Energy, 3 missile hardpoints? Only worry is that it likely would have Cataphract side torsos..... limiting it's XL compatibility.

[Vassago Rain]

Wrong thread. Delete this post, please.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 04 May 2015 - 10:57 PM.

[Ratpoison]

Not sure why you expected the hardpoints to be anywhere else.


I think 3 LLAS with 6 MLAS sounds like it will be great fun on this. The doomsayers are talking speculative nonsense as usual.

[NeoCodex]

Comparing it with a picture above:



Now I finally see what's wrong with it. It's too damn short. Or actually, the legs are too big, torso too smal and too wide. It just looks weird and like someone smashed it on the head. Something similiar as what happened to the Dire Wolf.

And on the opposite, we have Ebon Jaguar being a bit too tall (with oversized legs again). But I really want the EJ, while this doesn't even have the shield arm and proportions just seem off. I'm not sold on this. It's a big dissapointment for me.

[Mechteric]

NeoCodex, on 05 May 2015 - 04:24 AM, said:

Comparing it with a picture above:

Now I finally see what's wrong with it. It's too damn short. Or actually, the legs are too big, torso too smal and too wide. It just looks weird and like someone smashed it on the head. Something similiar as what happened to the Dire Wolf.

And on the opposite, we have Ebon Jaguar being a bit too tall (with oversized legs again). But I really want the EJ, while this doesn't even have the shield arm and proportions just seem off. I'm not sold on this. It's a big dissapointment for me.

Its a concept drawing. We've all seen the differences between the 2D drawing the actual 3D model. Some mechs haven't fared well (Centurion, Quickdraw, etc), others have fared pretty well.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 05 May 2015 - 04:29 AM.

[Sjorpha]

I think this is the first mech where I don't think Alex version is the best one, I'd like it to look more medieval/knightish.

Low slung hardpoints can work if the mech has good enough virtues otherwise. 9E on a 75 ton mech is nothing to sneeze at in the current laser meta after all.

[Ultimax]

tortuousGoddess, on 05 May 2015 - 12:46 AM, said:

I think 3 LLAS with 6 MLAS sounds like it will be great fun on this. The doomsayers are talking speculative nonsense as usual.

Let's see.

3x LLAS = 27 Damage at 450m
15 tons

6x MLAS = 30 Damage at 270m
6 Tons

Total Tonnage = 21 tons

Total = 57 damage

45 heat

Functionally two range brackets, with overlap at under 270m



2x CLPLs = 26 damage at 600m
12 tons

4x CERMLAS = 28 damage at 405m
4 tons

Total Tonnage = 16 tons

Total Damage = 54

44 heat

Functionally two range brackets, with overlap under 405m

Can add 5 extra heatsinks above the IS build.




Bu...bu...but muh clan mechs run too hawt!!


This isn't rocket science, without quirks or better hardpoint placement - we can pretty much surmise exactly how good the BK will actually be.