307 replies to this topic

[TheCharlatan]

Obligatory threads when a new wave comes out:

1- Mech A Artwork clearly shows it's DOA
2- Mech A Artwork clearly shows it's OP
3- Mech A Artwork is not looking like I want it. Change it to my liking.

When the mech model preview comes out:
1- Mech A Model clearly shows it's DOA
2- Mech A Model clearly shows it's OP
3- Mech A Model is not looking like I want it. Change it to my liking.

Repeat for mechs B, C and D. Add in "Quirks OP/Quirks DOA" and "Hardpoints OP/DOA" threads ad libitum.

Just another day for the Forumwarriors.

[Elizander]

I'm guessing the ECM version will be like the ECM Griffin and pop up on the gift store. Worst case scenario (which I doubt will happen) would be a Hero mech with ECM like PB Locust.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Fate 6, on 01 May 2015 - 08:39 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure the Warhawk's guns are closer to the cockpit than the Zeus's guns.

They should be, but they are not.

Warhawk sticks out further left and right and hangs down further.

Zeus is holding its guns up around the middle of it's Torsos, the Warhawk's guns are dangling around its waist and sticking out a fair bit further as well.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 02 May 2015 - 06:50 AM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Yosharian, on 02 May 2015 - 02:00 AM, said:

Why is it DoA?

Largely because of the hard point placement in the concept art. They are all waist level which means in order to shoot, one will need to expose much more of the mech. One may notice that the best mechs in the game have high mounted energy hard points. Lacking special equipment like jump jets and ECM doesn't help either, but even if it had those it would need to overcome the hard point issue.

It is only concept art, but well... we already have precedent for heavies with low slung weapons being useless (see the Orion and Summoner).

Edited by Rouken, 02 May 2015 - 06:59 AM.

[ROSS-128]

CocoaJin, on 30 April 2015 - 07:56 PM, said:

Weapon placement near the mech's CoG is brilliant design, implying it was in fact designed by engineers and not video gamers. It minimizes rotational moments on the mech caused by recoil by the weapon and from movements of the mech on the weapon...all improve weapon accuracy.

These aren't squat weapon platforms...unlike any other weapons platform ever: they are tall, small based(doesn't have a wide supporting base) weapon platforms that walk, run and jump jet about on rough terrain, frequently firing rapid fire bursts.

What recoil? The BK is a laser mech.

Given recoil is a non-issue, you want those hardpoints as high as possible so that you can fire them while exposing as little of the mech as possible. As far as the mech's own movements, that's what gyro-stabilizers are for.

Besides, if your mech is too tall to fire a weapon mounted on its shoulder without tipping over, then your mech is just too tall. If you can't bring the weapons to the cockpit, then bring the cockpit to the weapons by making the mech shorter with a wider base.

The ability to stick 9 energy weapons on a 75 tonner will be nice. STD300 is also a pretty sweet stock engine. I really hope it gets LPL+ML quirks, preferably heat gen and range, because the combination of hardpoints and weight allowance just begs for a 3LPL+6ML build.

However, the low, very spread-out placement of the hardpoints will be extremely annoying. Especially when allies walk in front of you, or when fighting near any kind of cover.

[Brody319]

I think the black knight looks so much better and far sexier than its previous iterations.

[C E Dwyer]

Vassago Rain, on 01 May 2015 - 06:28 PM, said:

Seriously, though, unless it gets ECM, no one's gonna bother.

I will bother, I am going to be a black knight that says noob, no not noob, Ni!

[Weeny Machine]

Is it just me or does the head look totally different than in TR2075? Too bad if that's the case. I loved the "fullhelmet" look of the head in that TR

[KharnZor]

The stupidity of this thread is amazing.

[CK16]

I can not believe the amount of complaining you IS players can find in this game....EVERYTHING has to be an issue if it not top META in your court?That you complain about its hard points (I mean in lore that is their placement!) you throw a fit like a spoiled brat! The Black Knight will be a good mech it looks great and will be a good rival to the Timberwolf....regardless of its quirks (hopefully not stupid quirks, give them like the 15% at max on stuff). I just find it very annoying how you expect this mech to be in the same class as the Thunderfucks and Stalkers.....Which both of those cases need to be nerfed a bit to be balanced cause they are NOT balanced at all! That is another topic that has been a beaten dead so no more on that...I am just hoping the mech is actually balanced....not OP...Say longer beam duration but longer range/better heat. Like I said all these threads about IS mechs that are like this make me cringe cause probably these same people call for nerf to clan mechs, cause they don't care about balance they only care about face rolling and playing meta only (snores!)

end rant...

Edited by Crottykid16, 02 May 2015 - 12:51 PM.

[ROSS-128]

Actually the Thunderbolt also has low, spread-out hardpoints that are difficult to use. It just rose to prominence because it was very heavily quirked on two variants. Now it's mostly one variant that has the most quirkening, and that quirk mostly has the effect of letting it equip Clan MPLs with slightly less damage.

I've already listed the upsides of the Black Knight of course. If it gets decent quirks to make up for its hardpoint geometry, it could potentially be pretty good. The geometry is certainly poor, though something like 90% of BT mechs have horrible hardpoint placement because on the tabletop hardpoint placement didn't matter, so it was determined by how it looked on the art.

Edit:

In fact here you go, here's a Clan Thunderbolt: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...17034120f308a65

Runs a little hot, but it's also 10 tons lighter and runs at 97/107 KPH. Ignore the armor distribution, I just left that as default because I was tossing the build together in just a couple minutes.

I recognize it might not be an ideal SCR loadout, but it's meant to illustrate that anything the Thunderbolt can do, the Clans can do too.

Edited by E Rommel, 02 May 2015 - 12:59 PM.

[Jonathan Paine]

Bought the pack because I am happy with the development pace for CW, and I really enjoyed the crazy beta-struggle for Tukayyid. This will be the last pack I pre-order where the weapon's placements look like trash.

[verybad]

KharnZor, on 02 May 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

The stupidity of this thread is amazing.

Thanks for contributing.

[Gas Guzzler]

Crottykid16, on 02 May 2015 - 12:36 PM, said:

I can not believe the amount of complaining you IS players can find in this game....EVERYTHING has to be an issue if it not top META in your court?That you complain about its hard points (I mean in lore that is their placement!) you throw a fit like a spoiled brat! The Black Knight will be a good mech it looks great and will be a good rival to the Timberwolf....regardless of its quirks (hopefully not stupid quirks, give them like the 15% at max on stuff). I just find it very annoying how you expect this mech to be in the same class as the Thunderfucks and Stalkers.....Which both of those cases need to be nerfed a bit to be balanced cause they are NOT balanced at all! That is another topic that has been a beaten dead so no more on that...I am just hoping the mech is actually balanced....not OP...Say longer beam duration but longer range/better heat. Like I said all these threads about IS mechs that are like this make me cringe cause probably these same people call for nerf to clan mechs, cause they don't care about balance they only care about face rolling and playing meta only (snores!)

end rant...

While I don't see doom and gloom with these mechs, if they want the BK to compete with the Timber Wolf it will need quirks somewhere between the GHR and the TDR.

[CK16]

Gas Guzzler, on 02 May 2015 - 01:12 PM, said:

While I don't see doom and gloom with these mechs, if they want the BK to compete with the Timber Wolf it will need quirks somewhere between the GHR and the TDR.

I am fine with quirks that give it a few %'s but nothing like 50% or give it ER LRG range that equals the clans...That is to much there is being on par and there is being totally equal if not better in some cases. Hell try taking on a Wubbolt in a laser vomit Timber...chances are wubbolt will come out easily on top, IS Meta mechs are easy mode from my experience playing them, while clan pack a good punch they take more heat management and not as constant DPS or face time

[Duke Hector]

why are people not liking this mech? i'll use it over the grasshopper 5 extra tons is 5 extra tons of cooling

[Vassago Rain]

Dan the Ice Man, on 02 May 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

why are people not liking this mech? i'll use it over the grasshopper 5 extra tons is 5 extra tons of cooling

Low-slung hardpoints. All 4 variants are essentially the same. If you already own a top tier laserboat (wolverine, stalker, etc), they don't provide anything new.

[Gas Guzzler]

Vassago Rain, on 02 May 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

Low-slung hardpoints. All 4 variants are essentially the same. If you already own a top tier laserboat (wolverine, stalker, etc), they don't provide anything new.

9 E Hardpoints, first thing over 50 tons to have that..

[Strum Wealh]

Rouken, on 02 May 2015 - 06:55 AM, said:

Largely because of the hard point placement in the concept art. They are all waist level which means in order to shoot, one will need to expose much more of the mech. One may notice that the best mechs in the game have high mounted energy hard points. Lacking special equipment like jump jets and ECM doesn't help either, but even if it had those it would need to overcome the hard point issue.

It is only concept art, but well... we already have precedent for heavies with low slung weapons being useless (see the Orion and Summoner).

We also have precedent for Heavy 'Mechs with relatively low-slung weapons performing respectably - see the Grasshopper (specifically, this thread, this video, this video, this video, and this video).

Being characterized by relatively low hardpoints is not in-and-of-itself a reason for the 'Mech to be declared "dead-on-arrival" at this point - especially when the current (at the time of this writing) playstyle favors the laser-heavy loadouts that are/should-be characteristic of the Black Knight (see, the many threads complaining about how powerful "laservomit" can be).

[Gas Guzzler]

Crottykid16, on 02 May 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:

I am fine with quirks that give it a few %'s but nothing like 50% or give it ER LRG range that equals the clans...That is to much there is being on par and there is being totally equal if not better in some cases. Hell try taking on a Wubbolt in a laser vomit Timber...chances are wubbolt will come out easily on top, IS Meta mechs are easy mode from my experience playing them, while clan pack a good punch they take more heat management and not as constant DPS or face time

Most players have found the Timber Wolf superior to the 5SS.

As I said initially, the Black Knight is basically a GHR without JJs and a bit more tonnage, so I expect it to have better quirks than the hopper, due to also having less high hardpoints. On the other hand, the BK will (hopefully) have better geo and hitboxes than a TDR so won't need as hard of quirks as the 5SS.