1189 replies to this topic

[Anuri]

Warhammer 40k!

The Emperor Battleship is 12 kilometers in size and Empire has hundreds of those. Cruiser is about 8km in size. The Star Wars destroyer is about 700m. Anything without shields will get a terminator party teleported on the bridge the rest is simply devastated from long range - the combat ranges of 40k space battles is thousands of km.

[buttmonkey]

gundam and stargate sound like they are worth playing actually.

[DEN_Ninja]

Earthforce is not amused



Neither is the ISS



Or the first ones



TBH the first one ships look like they are made of wood but if a race can make wood ships capable of space travel...I don't know where to begin.

[Beren Valari]

They're all screwed when you bring in the forces of the kwizatz hederach. Frank Herberts Dune universe never emphasised technology which made it so much more powerful. Humans who can read and see the future etc.

That being said its all fantasy. There is no comparison. You may as well go for a Harry Potter vs Jedi debate. Its all nonsense in the end and each universe relies on completely ridiculous assumptions. It would make a much more interesting debate if we put in the condition that they all had to fight under real world physics.

[DEN_Ninja]

Evangelion wins because of reality breakingness if we swing that way.

[Valdr_Skeggjoar]

GryphonTA, on 28 November 2011 - 06:56 PM, said:

you mean this?


There's just something about the original tho.

If I'm not mistaken that is the Space Battleship Yamato from the television show "Star Blazers"
back around 1980-82.

[Rushin Roulette]

GryphonTA, on 28 November 2011 - 06:56 PM, said:

There's just something about the original tho.

Bathtub... the final Frontier.

To baldly go where no man has been before (and probably will never want to go either)

[Hayashi]

I can't believe that Heldensagen vom Kosmosinsel actually appeared in this poll.

[Voridan Atreides]

Its Star Wars.....nothing can beat Star Wars...

[Egomane]

I'll go out of my way and contribute to this topic with a single post.

There is one more universe to be considered for superiourity above all the others. The universe of the Perry Rhodan serialization.

A short introduction for those that don't know about Perry Rhodan:
It is a weekly serialization of stories, that started in 1961 and continues on to release a volume a week every since. We now have over 2600 volumes to read with an average read time of 2 hours per volume, as well as hundreds of books and a few spin of series and comics. There was also a very, very, very, very, very bad movie made in the early seventies. It is primarily know in its land of origin, germany, but it has been translated in more then 20 languages and can be found all over the world, from Argentina over Japan to Zimbabwe.

The story revolves around the astronaut Perry Rhodan who was the first man on the moon (remember the year the first volume was written) and discovered an alien life form there that is stranded with their spaceship. By some diplomacy he gained a bit of the alien technology and used it to unite the earth. Later he earned the trust of some of the stranded aliens and learned why they were in the solar system. They were on the search for the world of immortality and one of the clues to this world was supposed to be in the solar system.

Perry Rhodan and a handfull of friends and mutants (humans with psycic abilities, like telekinises or teleportation) he starts out to follow the distress call of a nearby civilization, not knowing that this will lead him directly to the world of immortality. He and some of his friends gain this limited immortality (they don't age anymore but can still be killed) and gain the friendship of the civilization they helped to rescue. On the world of immortality he also gains the first glimpse on something larger than what humanity so far imagined. A being so powerful that it's technology is like magic, so powerful that it combines the intellect of billions of intelligent creatures into one single being. This type of being is called a superintelligence from now on.

Compared to other galactic empires the earth, now called terra, is a weakling and needs to hide until it build up sufficent strength. So tricks and treachery are used to keep the location of the solar system a secret until it has a slight chance to defend itself. Even though its location remained largely unknown to the rest of the galaxy, humanity made an impact on the galactic economy and made some big enemies. Among them the empire the stranded aliens came from.

To make a long story short... Perry Rhodan and the human race made it past those first obstacles. They fought wars, first in the milkyway, later they jumped over to andromeda and so step by step the universe grew larger and larger. Today even other universes or galaxies more then several hundred million lightyears away are common in the story. They learned that a superintelligence is just a first step to some even more powerful, universe controling beings. But even those are not the end of the line as the story hints at something even beyond them.

Spaceships:
In Perry Rhodan ships range from a few meters in size up to the scale of small planets and sometimes even beyond that. Their Technology ranges from "organic and psycic powers" to "we can not even begin to guess how this technology works" in various degrees of efficiancy. The ships of the human races, that developed over time, are mostly in the range of a few meters to 2,5 km in diameter spheres, with some few ships being even bigger. They travel at speeds that depend on the used drive technology, ranging from instant travel over a few thousend lighyears to speeds in the hundreds of millions of the speed of light for prolonged travels over long distances. The Fleet of the solar human races range in several hundred thousends at any given time. Some of the bigger ships carry cruiser class ships as small craft.
(That's just the humans, there are several equally powerful races in the milkyway alone)
The biggest known fleet till now is the endless Armada. A fleet of one billion ships that spans over several lightyears. A defense fleet for a universal phenomena.

Weapons:
Weapon technology ranges from personal weaponry to weapons that can blow up a star (or in case of the superbeings, even whole galaxies). For most space battles the ranges are something between a few hundred thousend kilometers up to 15 million kilometers and the power of the weapons go up to be equal to 4000 gigatons of TNT. In a few cases even above that. Bigger ships, carry up to fourty of those cannons and a lot of smaller ones. Normal shield technology will not stop those weapons, as their loadout is send through hyperspace straight into the target in zero-time, exploding on rematerialization by design (you can't send troops that way, but there is technology for that as well). To stop those weapons your shields need to extend into hyperspace. If they rematerialize in a shield it will have to absorb the whole explosion.
Different races will employ different technology weapons, that may or may not have a higher ranger and/or firepower.

Defense:
Defense technology is powerful enough to defend against whole volleys of such weapons for a while. Shields can withstand enormous amounts of punishment. Space battles are fast and mobility is important for quick repositioning. You will often see whole fleets quickly changing from realspace to hyperspace and back again, firing a few volleys while in realspace and take out a few enemies, before the foe can retaliate they are gone again.
There are shields protecting whole solar systems that can withstand the bombardment of hundreds of thousends of ships. Those are but a few. More common are planetary shields, that are still very capable of withstanding damage.
Personal defense technology allows for suits capable of enhancing the strength of the wearer, protecting him with powerful shields and providing him with a near perfect recycling system for prolonged use. Those are standard technology and every man, women or child could use them, no biological adjustment is needed. They can often be found in de-militarized versions as standard spacesuits aboard spaceships.
Different races will employ different defense systems, that may or may not absorb more firepower or work better or worse against different weapons.

Races and superbeings:
In the past 50 years of the series we have seen a few thousend species named and described. Most of them not human in any way or shape. They ranged from some primitive animal to beings so powerful that whole fleets couldn't harm them.
The superbeings range from young collectives of a single race, that gave up their bodies to reach for something bigger, over superintelligences who control a single galaxy or a cluster of them (the one Perry Rhodan encounters first, controls the whole local cluster), to beings that no longer reside in a single universe. As I said before, those are not the end of the line, but they are the most powerfull encountered so far and even they don't know what the next step would be. In fact it is one of the three ultimate questions they try to solve, to find out what is even bigger then them.
Even the smallest superbeing can manipulate energy and matter at will and exchange one for the other to some extend. The most powerful ones decide about the laws of nature for whole universes.


There are numbers and technological explenations in great numbers, to prove everything I wrote here, but most of them is in german.

This is not some obscure Sci-Fi series. It is the biggest, uninterrupted running Sci-Fi series of the world, with more then a billion sold copies (that's the number wikipedia gave me, so don't press me for something more accurate).

As far as I see it, it will beat any mentioned universe on any given day. Be it in technology or superbeings. Even a Q or a god-emperor are nothing more then little flies.

If you have read this whole post, congratulation. I made it to show you that there is always a bigger fish!

[Conor Sinclaire]

Stargate. Hands down, I mean SG-1 blew up a solar system, c'mon! Who can compete with that and instanious travel between galaxies? And all the knowledge of the Asgard. **** son. Oh, and Atlantis. It's a city. No. It's a freakin spaceship. With one hell of a shield made by the most advanced race to ever populate the universe.

Ur Argument Iz Invalid.

lolz

[pursang]

Egomane, on 12 September 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

-snip-

It's sold a billion copies, but I've never heard of it until now.

Huh.

[Cole Wilson]

Can't hold it

MIR joining ze battle!

[Catamount]

pursang, on 12 September 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

It's sold a billion copies, but I've never heard of it until now.

Huh.

Meh, it sounds like DragonballZ in space anyways, with ever-building exaggerated plot elements just to keep the story from going stale, and endless compounding dues ex machina plot devices. I'm sure there's some obscure anime that's still stronger, and written about as well

Edited by Catamount, 13 September 2012 - 05:21 AM.

[Egomane]

Catamount, on 13 September 2012 - 05:20 AM, said:

Meh, it sounds like DragonballZ in space anyways,

You shouldn't judge something before wittnessing it yourself.
But as I said in my last sentence in my previous post, I just wanted to show you that there is always something bigger and stronger and better.

Each Sci-Fi series has its own apeal and it is impossible to compare them with each other, because they all exist of make up numbers and facts. As long as they are enjoyable they are good and that is the only factor they should be judged by.

[Perfecto Oviedo]

Tho, on 12 September 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

If I'm not mistaken that is the Space Battleship Yamato from the television show "Star Blazers"
back around 1980-82.

Star Blazers is the Americanized Saturday Morning Cartoon version of Space Battleship Yamato, the anime. I believe the vessel in "Star Blazers" was called the Argo, not the Yamato. It's the same show, but Star Blazers was edited for American audiences.

Star Blazers is awesome though. Love the theme song.

[A11eycat]

In regards to Voridan Atreide's comment "It(')s Star Wars..... Nothing can beat Star Wars......",
Fluffy, 3-foot-high teddy bears with sticks, small rocks, and horribly constructed bows. Oh, and rebels they had as prisoners > Stormtrooopers, with mechanized armored walkers... : /

Sorry Conor Sinclaire, as I'm a big fan of Sg-1 and the whole stargate genre, but they simply don't have the resources to compete with either the Perr Rhodan Serialzation (from now on known as P.R.S. with the below exception) or the WH40K universes who do the hole "blowing up an entire solar sytem" somewhat daily.

I believe Egomane mentioned some weapons and ship tech, I know this doesn't cover All of this immense Perry Rhodan serialization's technology but....( I hope I spelled that right, I haven't heard of the series either so just let me know where I'm wrong)

"The ships of the human races, that developed over time, are mostly in the range of a few meters to 2 - 5 km in diameter spheres, with some few ships being even bigger."

and

"the power of the weapons go up to be equal to 4000 gigatons of TNT. In a few cases even above that. Bigger ships, carry up to fourty of those cannons and a lot of smaller ones. Normal shield technology will not stop those weapons, as their loadout is send through hyperspace straight into the target in zero-time, exploding on rematerialization by design (you can't send troops that way, but there is technology for that as well)."

In ship's, Anuri brings up some points for warhammer 40K,

"The Emperor Battleship is 12 kilometers in size and Empire has hundreds of those"

My own understanding of the Emperor's (or Imperium's) weapons are easily capable of that, and they have just as many, if not more based on the size of man's empire" Orks and Tau also bring similar weapons and destructive power to bear (although not in the sheer quantity of the Emperor) whereas Eldar and Necrons bring even More devastating weapons and ships. I won't even begin to talk about 'Space Hulks' floating around in The Warp...

Another factor is the delivery system behind the P.R.S.s standard weapon tech, is either teleportation, or something similar to the "slipspace" engines used by Halo to my understanding.

Warhammer has an answer for that, Teleportation or hyperspace disruptors, they stop 'teleportation tech.' in one of three ways, one system disrupts the teleportation by capturing the "signal" and then sending the atoms energy patterns off in totally random directions resulting in nothing coming into being (and even if something materialized, it wouldn't be anywhere NEAR the target) and keeping ships from ever coming out of their hyperspace jump (or in this case missiles), the second device keeps whatever it is from even "dematerializing" or whatever your preferred term is, (in the P.R.S.s case they would click the "launch" button and nothing would happen, shortly followed by the missile's detonationwhile still inside the firing chamber or similar firing system inside the ship = followed by , then and finally ) and once your shield's power source stops working, on comes the tactical dreadnought armor squads by the dozens. or void shields, which would "suck up" the hyperdrived (if that's how the P.R.S.s tech Egomane talked about works) and poop it out somewhere else (maybe inside your own ship/ fleet, some random planet, in the immaterium, or even, more rarely than anything else described, right back out the shield's other end)

that is the Emperor's tech, the Tyranids, are a whole other beast(s),
Incalculable numbers that grow with every victory (and even some defeats), the ability to eat anything in the specialized creatures, "reincarnation" or exceptionally powerful, brutal, or cunning tyranids, and once they touch ground on a planet, they literally start eating it from the inside out with MASSIVE underground birthing chambers(of course making more tyranids while the ones up stairs are going kamikaze) and tunnels that lead to everywhere they could possibly want to "surprise" someone.

In regards to Psychics and ships, Tyranids basically reduce the brain power of any psychic in the area to that of a small toddler who just fell off a chair, using specialized creatures and a constant barrage of mental images , words, and commands of Tyranid leader creatures, who use said commands to direct the zerg-like forces, in addition, said images and commands are probably horrific, with the creatures hewing limbs, eating comrades alive, and chasing down and massacring attempted escapee forces which are "demoralizing" (to say the least of the psychological effects) on the wittnessing psychic(s).

Tyranid ships are living beings, that said, they are ALL ravenous, they are as numerous as their ground forces, in coheasion (without clumsy comms arrays and confusing commands), they heal during combat, and FAST, like the "road-runners" of space, fast. P.R.S.s weapons would most likely be unable to target them without simply shooting a wall of munitions. In addition, they are "protected" by clouds of acid-parasites, that begin eating through anything that enters their radius, so, the projectiles would never really get to their location, since they would have been eaten or dissolved as soon as the projectile began rematerializeing before all the required pieces were through.

Plus, they LOVE CQB, their boarding parties are horrific, billions of(forgive the comparison but starcraft's zerg are more easily understood while less horrific) zerglings, all supported by brutalisks, hydralisks, and a little thing called a Genestealer(lots of them) all the while the Tyranid ship itself is eating through the ship.

There you have it just two out of the dozen or so WH40K species, I'm about winded out, (and I'm not even reading it) so kudos to whoever can make it through this 'Wall of Text' article, you get bonus points

[guardian wolf]

For some reason, 40k scares the !@#$ out of me when I think that they had to try and come up, with all of that. In a head on fight, I think Star Wars would put up the biggest fight against 40k, and as for PRS, I am no expert at all, as I have never heard of it, so, no comment on that.

[A11eycat]

In the end between SW and 40K, 40K just has SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Much more resources, and diversity (not in amount of species, but in empires that all are "Super-Powers" 40K takes the cake as well.)

Edited by A11eycat, 13 September 2012 - 08:04 PM.

[Zakatak]

Warhammer 40k and Star Wars are dead magical horses of unspecified size, mass, and blood-pumping capacity. The strength of the universe is entirely dependant upon the writer and the wanking ability of the observer.

Probably not going to include WH40k in any polls I make from now on because they are both pathetic and unstoppable depending upon who you ask.

Edited by Zakatak, 14 September 2012 - 01:06 PM.