56 replies to this topic

[Slow and Decrepit]

I have to wonder how many would be calling to nerf the top 3 clan mechs if they didn't have so many weapon hard points. If a timber had hard points like a highlander would we even be here? I think that we may as far as the crow, because of it's hitboxes, but what if the dire couldn't mount 6x a/c's? Or 14 lasers? How do you balance say a timber to a Victor or Orion when the clans have so many hard points?I see a little bit of heat, but that sure ain't stopping the meta crowd. Maybe double the rate of fire for the IS mechs while giving them heat breaks? Then we have the power leep that was brought on by Mr. Dire. Everyone got to have fun cutting another mech in two with it's truly awesome firepower. That was fun, but it got things started down the wrong road of lower and lower TTK. I don't even try and play my Victors anymore just cause they don't have the armor to deal with the much higher alpha's. They are one hit wonders and everyone knows it. Maybe if we had LFE's that we could stuff in them, so they might have the survivability that the clans have. That might help the TTK, but the firepower race is on in it's earnest-what do we do?

Edited by beleneagle, 04 May 2015 - 04:19 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

How about start with a 30 Heat Capacity / Threshold for any mech?

Players can still put whatever they want in their mechs, but can only fire combos below that hard set limit regardless of class or HS counts.

That way Heat Sinks only modify how fast we lose heat, and could see slight buffs to keep up with our Rate of Fire as needed (namely external Dubs).

Then Gauss would have an extend firing limit when used with other weapons, for example, it currently sits at only two Gauss at a time, even if you mount three or four, so apply that as needed to other combos with Gauss with the 30 Heat Scale in mind.

[Nightshade24]

The top Clan mech and builds are around about the same level as IS.

Meanwhile the worst IS mechs are the same level as a non Energy timberwolf and such.

I think before we make clans virtually impossible to use that even a 12 man meta clan team would lose to a 12 man pug team I think we need to first buff all the other clan mechs and have clan quirks for all mechs including for the timberwolf.

[Brody319]

Max Heat threshold of 10 for all mechs.
Alpha strike problem - Gone
OP Clan mechs - Gone
OP IS mechs - Gone
Time to Kill - Gone

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Brody319, on 03 May 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

Max Heat threshold of 10 for all mechs.

If you are serious, what do you think about 14 (or go up to 28, basically doubled)?

At 14, that is the value from the P&P game. And the difference in heat endurance is made through buffing dissipation as necessary.

[Brody319]

Praetor Knight, on 03 May 2015 - 10:17 PM, said:

If you are serious, what do you think about 14 (or go up to 28, basically doubled)?

At 14, that is the value from the P&P game. And the difference in heat endurance is made through buffing dissipation as necessary.

You doubt my reason?!
Then it shall be a heat threshold of 5!

[SaltBeef]

I do not like to hear Bitchin betty constantly whine about my heat as is....so NO! Alpha Striking has always been a Part of BT.

So Has DFA Death From Above and should be in this game.

Edited by SaltBeef, 03 May 2015 - 10:46 PM.

[Hound of War]

Wow another Clams OP pls nerf thread, this is getting old. Twice the fire rate and reduced heat for IS mechs? Arent we pretty much already there? Imo the IS fanboys will keep crying rivers of rainbow colored tears untill any one with a sub 0.5 KD can kill a Direwolf in a MG Locast (and that within a few sec.). If your Victor cannot 1 shot a Timberwolf then learn to use the other advantages (speed/mobility) or just play the IS easymode quirked mechs.

Edited by YeOlWardog, 03 May 2015 - 10:47 PM.

[Nick86]

Brody319, on 03 May 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

Max Heat threshold of 10 for all mechs. Alpha strike problem - Gone OP Clan mechs - Gone OP IS mechs - Gone Time to Kill - Gone

MWO - Gone.

[Kain Demos]

Praetor Knight, on 03 May 2015 - 10:17 PM, said:

If you are serious, what do you think about 14 (or go up to 28, basically doubled)?

At 14, that is the value from the P&P game. And the difference in heat endurance is made through buffing dissipation as necessary.

30 is just as ludicrously bad. Many loadouts will be rendered invalid to where you do not even use up your tonnage. 2 x CERPPC will completely go away (like many are running it anyway) and you could never run any other weapon with them.

[Kjudoon]

Most of the problems still dissolve down to hit reg issues (possibly packet loss issues too), perfect/instant convergence, FLPPD no, 10v12 or 36v48 in CW, and mixed IS/Clan in PQs.

I would love to see three changes that will never come about to make this game balanced.

1. Cone of Fire for all grouped/chained weapons.
Better the targeting computer or time standing still, the smaller the cone. This solves convergence and FLPPD issues and makes LRMs relevant,a large increase in TTK but no change has to be done to LRMs because all weapons now spread.

2. Include Battle Value for builds with Elo, in PQs.
In CW, just publish the total BV of the team's dropdecks waiting for you, then you can decide if you're going to drop or not on that planet if you cannot bring a force to bear that is even CLOSE to the quality of the mechs there. Then the game becomes more actual skill v skill (barring certain unspoken extra issues and interweb problems)

3. Mixed tech to equalize whole game.
Move to a post invasion stance because we see what a mess it is, and allow all tech and all chassis cross platform. Quirk the crappy chassis to equality and let the whole thing hash it out.

Chances I think any of this will happen? 2% or less. Rage amplification from a minority of players particularly if #1 is implemented? Five billion percent.

But it would be a lot more fair and equal... which would at least encourage me to play more and possibly spend money again.

Edited by Kjudoon, 03 May 2015 - 10:56 PM.

[Ralgas]

Kain Thul, on 03 May 2015 - 10:54 PM, said:

30 is just as ludicrously bad. Many loadouts will be rendered invalid to where you do not even use up your tonnage. 2 x CERPPC will completely go away (like many are running it anyway) and you could never run any other weapon with them.

does need lowering though. Only +1 point per HS, no matter what it is. gives shs a reason to exist again, trade off higher cap and dissipation for weight (2 shs in the slot of 1 dhs)

Edited by Ralgas, 03 May 2015 - 11:03 PM.

[Kilo 40]

this is just the latest in a long string of "I was killed by XYZ. XYZ needs to be nerfed." threads.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Kain Thul, on 03 May 2015 - 10:54 PM, said:

30 is just as ludicrously bad. Many loadouts will be rendered invalid to where you do not even use up your tonnage. 2 x CERPPC will completely go away (like many are running it anyway) and you could never run any other weapon with them.

Dissipation is where we'd need the bump though with Heat Sinks, so that Heat Capacity / Threshold is Dissipation over time.

For example, 0.4 on each DHS, allows 20 DHS to handle 8 heat dissipated a second (without Mech Tree Efficiencies and Quicks calculated in).

So, players can still find a rhythm in firing their weaponry, simply with significantly lowered heat cap for huge alphas into one component and the eventual removal of heat scale (ghost heat).

The thing is, we are unlikely to see anything with convergence and many hate enforcing any sort of chain-firing systems, so it's simpler to modify the heat system, IMHO and it affects all mechs equally.

[Kain Demos]

Praetor Knight, on 03 May 2015 - 11:32 PM, said:

Dissipation is where we'd need the bump though with Heat Sinks, so that Heat Capacity / Threshold is Dissipation over time.

For example, 0.4 on each DHS, allows 20 DHS to handle 8 heat dissipated a second (without Mech Tree Efficiencies and Quicks calculated in).

So, players can still find a rhythm in firing their weaponry, simply with significantly lowered heat cap for huge alphas into one component and the eventual removal of heat scale (ghost heat).

The thing is, we are unlikely to see anything with convergence and many hate enforcing any sort of chain-firing systems, so it's simpler to modify the heat system, IMHO and it affects all mechs equally.

The lowest "fixed heat threshold" I could ever get behind would maybe be 60. 30 would make loadouts with multiple weapons go bye bye.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Kain Thul, on 03 May 2015 - 11:38 PM, said:

The lowest "fixed heat threshold" I could ever get behind would maybe be 60. 30 would make loadouts with multiple weapons go bye bye.

I don't think they'd go bye bye, it's could promote players actually needing to bring a mixed loadout, while reducing our high volume of fire.

I'd at least want to test it out.

Imagine two C-ERLLs at 12 heat each would naturally be limited to two, and if the player brought a mix of other weapons, would be able to switch over to using those weapons when needed. An easy example, the TBR Prime would have to choose between LRMs or ERLLs at range, but still able to easily fire its two C-ERMLs and C-MPL for 16 heat at close range, dissipating 6.8 heat each second with 17 DHS.

---

Going with 60, that could be fine too, it's where 10 engine DHS sit right now, for example. But that would likely mean little change with dissipation and still being stuck with ghost heat though.

At any rate, I hope for possibly getting true external dubs (and getting an updated Mech Tree Efficiencies) with setting a 60 cap.

[Nightshade24]

Brody319, on 03 May 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

Max Heat threshold of 10 for all mechs.
Alpha strike problem - Gone
OP Clan mechs - Gone
OP IS mechs - Gone
Time to Kill - Gone

Considering some weapons make over 10 heat...

Also considering the fact that the IS quirks would make them clearly OP, a clan mech has no chance having a single ER large laser while IS can do 2 large lasers or 1 ER or normal PPC without insta over heating.

not to mention that all the machine gun and good gauss mechs are Inner sphere while the only MG boats capable is the kitfox (very slow, and due to heat changes useless in your theory), the Nova (out done by * IS mech in every way), and the Direwolf (haha... MG boating in that?... or guass)

IS got the locust, spider, blackjack arrow *, raven, jagermech, catapult, kingcrab, and in the future the mauler too that can run 4-6 machine guns or double guass

[Eboli]

I'll take a very simple stance.

From a CW aspect at the moment I think the important changes (only looking at things mech wise) are:

Fix the Storm Crow hit boxes;
Fix the Firestarter Hitboxes;
Add a ECM IS Heavy.

The Madcat is in a good place now that they fixed the JJ issue.

Put those three fixes in and see how things works out.

Certainly like the idea of cone of fire.

Plenty of other things to fix in the game of course though!

Cheers!
Eboli

[Nightshade24]

Eboli, on 04 May 2015 - 12:40 AM, said:

I'll take a very simple stance.

From a CW aspect at the moment I think the important changes (only looking at things mech wise) are:

Fix the Storm Crow hit boxes;
Fix the Firestarter Hitboxes;
Add a ECM IS Heavy.

The Madcat is in a good place now that they fixed the JJ issue.

Put those three fixes in and see how things works out.

Certainly like the idea of cone of fire.

Plenty of other things to fix in the game of course though!

Cheers!
Eboli

Blackknight and Cataphract 1X are two candidates for an ECM heavy for IS. (Cat = they said on the town hall that it may be a thing, Black = lots of field upgrades had ecm or jj added)

[Joseph Mallan]

Brody319, on 03 May 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

You doubt my reason?!
Then it shall be a heat threshold of 5!

Your reason I don't doubt. Your logic however is in question.