293 replies to this topic

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

LoL at the Clan Heavy numbers, and the Ryoken, Loki, and Mad Cat numbers.

[Capp]

Ace Selin, on 01 May 2015 - 06:59 PM, said:

So Clanners had less players yet won, but we can see that Clanners caused more friendly fire damage than their IS counterparts. So if we have less clanners & the clanner players are also of lower quality to their IS counterparts but were still able to win the event, then clearly Clan mechs are still OP.




Total Friendly Fire done by IS Mechs: 4,065,350

Total Friendly Fire done by Clan Mechs:4,280,595

As someone who plays both IS and Clan mechs, I would say it's not so much lesser quality players but the longer beam firing duration to blame for the higher instance of FF.

[slide]

I am surprised at the large number of individual units that participated (2215) across all the factions. That averages out to less than 2 lances (7.77) of players for each unit.

With the top 10-12 units from each faction likely comprising 50% of the players that participated that means there are a lot of sub 4 man (participating) units out there.

Do yourselves a favor, no matter what faction you play for, make an effort to get in contact with the larger units and coordinate your efforts with them. Get on the faction TS (they all have one), group up with their players and learn from each other.

Better yet, disband your unit and join one of the top 10-12.

[Duke Nedo]

Can see some clan tankability there, IS did slightly more damage with more frontload and shorter burn but fewer mechs killed.

Edit: misread kills, close though, stupid phone..

Edited by Duke Nedo, 01 May 2015 - 10:44 PM.

[Insects]

slide, on 01 May 2015 - 10:29 PM, said:

I am surprised at the large number of individual units that participated (2215) across all the factions. That averages out to less than 2 lances (7.77) of players for each unit.

A lot would be solo units, people just start their own unit with just themself instead of joining one.
Not like there is a cost involved or any rewards for being in larger units, this challenge with banners for top ranked units was the first time it has been encouraged.

If there was a reward for being in one of the top 100 units then there would be more consolidation.

[Insects]

Frytrixa, on 01 May 2015 - 06:04 PM, said:

how many of IS completed? How many clanners completed?

This would be an interesting one to see with the serious IS queue problems.
Its absence probably confirms what we all suspect. It was much harder for IS to complete due to the queue problems.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

InnerSphereNews, on 01 May 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

Top 20 Clan mechs used:

• SCRC: 49653
  
• SCRPRIME: 43981
  
• TBRC: 43090
  
• SCRD: 37446
  
• HBRPRIME: 35288
  
• MDDPRIME: 27645
  
• HBRA: 26308
  
• HBRPRIME(I): 25911
  
• TBRS: 25320
  
• TBRPRIME(I): 24229
  
• HBRB: 22889
  
• SCRPRIME(I): 21499
  
• TBRPRIME: 20576
  
• KFXC: 16455
  
• MDDA: 13191
  
• IFRPRIME: 12392
  
• KFXS: 10989
  
• MLXPRIME: 10932
  
• ADRPRIME: 10348
  
• MDDB: 10206

Clan Mechs by Mech Class:

• Light: 114478
  
• Medium: 205358
  
• Heavy: 304425
  
• Assault: 44751

Clan Mechs by Chassis

• Stormcrow: 158911
  
• TimberWolf: 123730
  
• Hellbringer: 110396
  
• MadDog: 59060
  
• KitFox: 50840
  
• MistLynx: 34678
  
• Adder: 28960
  
• Nova: 25381
  
• IceFerret: 21066
  
• DireWolf: 18865
  
• Warhawk: 17649
  
• Summoner: 11239
  
• Gargoyle: 8237

Clan being destroyed Mechs by Mech Model:

• Stormcrow: 118748
  
• TimberWolf: 96061
  
• Hellbringer: 85995
  
• MadDog: 48602
  
• KitFox: 41375
  
• MistLynx: 26269
  
• Adder: 21626
  
• Nova: 20893
  
• IceFerret: 17242
  
• DireWolf: 15144
  
• Warhawk:14252
  
• Summoner: 9194
  
• Gargoyle:6717</p>

I would like to point out that this is EXTREMELY telling about the degree of value imbalance in Clan 'mech chassis, specifically regarding the Stormcrow and Timber Wolf. When they're being brought in this proportion to a competitive field even by people not in highly competitive teams, it really says something about how the chassis as a whole compare to the other options.

I'll probably post a topic concerning them later, maybe when I have time this coming week, but I think that's something that should really be looked at and considered (especially the reasons for the chassis selection, which can be partly discerned by the choices of omni-pod used) and potentially taken into account for a subsequent quirk/chassis-performance pass on clan 'mechs.

[WeekendWarrior]

Triordinant, on 01 May 2015 - 05:07 PM, said:

One third of the participants quit after getting 5 points or less. They must've been really frustrated.

I actually quit with 0 points, and i doubt i was the only one.

I would like to see the points list split into Clans/IS.
And how many of the 40 and 50 pointers were Solos or with a fixed group, but i guess thats a bit much to ask for.


Also looks to me like Clan Lights and Assaults need a buff, i doubt the 10 tons difference in the drop deck is responsible for that huge gap:
IS Assaults: 149310
Clan Assaults: 44751


And nerf the Sniper Raven!
IS Mechs By Chassis
Stalker: 54313
Raven: 53285

IS being destroyed Mech by Mech Model:
Raven: 40567
Stalker: 39563


Oh yeah, and nerf the T-Bolt...

Quickdraw Crobat, on 01 May 2015 - 11:09 PM, said:

I would like to point out that this is EXTREMELY telling about the degree of value imbalance in Clan 'mech chassis, specifically regarding the Stormcrow and Timber Wolf.

You can blame the fixed Endo/Ferro, and to a lesser degree Engine, for that.
Those two Omnis come optimized out of the box, for the others its not just expensive to optimize them, its impossible.
If not for the ECM, the Hellbringer would be obsolete the moment the Cauldron-Born arrives.

Edited by WeekendWarrior, 01 May 2015 - 11:45 PM.

[Threat Doc]

Now THOSE are some promising statistics, though still not nearly what this game NEEDS to see. I hope some good lessons were also learned, PGI? Swinging your e-Peen is no good if you failed to learn anything in the process.

[Freebrewer Bmore]

Averath, on 01 May 2015 - 07:21 PM, said:

The problem will not be fixed by balancing the game around discouraging players who want to play the best IS mechs. The primary reason these IS mechs are played is because the quirks make them almost on-par with Clan mechs.

Well, a dynamic mech-usage-derived dropdeck selection budget would:

1) Not "discourage" anyone from anything, any more than a 240-ton dropdeck budget "discourages" you from running 4 Dires; it just makes more than 2 not even an option. Likewise, a usage budget would likely let you run 1 of some variant that everyone and their mom is also trying to run, but not more than that. You could still run your TDR5SS, but not 3 of them plus a Firestarter or whatever. You'd need to balance that TBolt out with some lesser-used mechs, but here's the thing: the Clans would need to do the same... no more 3xCrow+Timber or whatever their flavor of the month is, either.

2) Allow for easier balancing between IS and Clan because balance within each will already be clarified. Currently the devs have already instituted a 250 IS vs. 240 Clan dropdeck tonnage limit, but a problem with balancing it that way is that it's warped not only by those chassis that are relatively stronger on a per-ton basis, but also by the fact that 10 extra tons can dramatically alter the possible mech combinations (and thus overall potency) in ways that are difficult to even understand, much less balance. With a dynamic usage-based dropdeck allocation, this stuff fixes itself: if you want to boost IS relative to Clan, you could just grant IS a bit more leeway to select mechs that are higher than median usage; if that leeway allows for certain OP IS mech combos to emerge, their ensuing popularity will drive them out of dropdeck feasibility again, with no developer intervention necessary.

Averath, on 01 May 2015 - 07:21 PM, said:

Also PGI really needs to look at the IS mechs that were not used and address why. For example: "Why was the TDR used? Why not the Cataphract?" "Was it because the CTF dies in just a few hits compared to the TDR?" And consider what they can do to address that.

It's also possible that the reason(s) don't reflect on the CTF's effectiveness vs. the TDR so much as the effectiveness of the other mechs that could be fit into the same dropdeck. E.g. 3xCTF+1xCDA3M vs. 3xTDR+1xGRF2N. Personally I prefer my Ilya to any of my TDR's, but to me the 65-tonners offer vastly greater flexibility in the rest of the dropdeck that's hard to resist. The wonderful thing about a dynamic usage-based system is that the devs wouldn't need to be omniscient in order to balance all these factors. The system would balance itself until you had a diverse equilibrium.

Edited by Freebrewer Bmore, 02 May 2015 - 12:05 AM.

[aniviron]

Deathlike, on 01 May 2015 - 04:23 PM, said:

Here's some great numbers.

People complain about the Stalker-4N a lot, but the most deaths came by Thunderbolts.. very likely Thunderwub builds.

Holy Trinity is still good (not Direwolves, but Hellbringers).

I guess that reinforces some obvious points in balance, but it is what it is.

Edit:
Note that Stalker is #2 for IS, Stormcrows make up #1 for Clans, Timberwolves #2 (for Clans), and Hellbringer is #3 (for Clans).

The reason there are more TDRs than STKs is the same reason there are more SCRs than TBRs. It's not that the SCR or TDR would win in a fight against a TBR or STK, but rather that those mechs are heavier, and you can generally only bring one TBR or STK but you can easily bring two SCRs or TDRs. If people are bringing twice as many TDRs than STKs, I'd hope the TDRs get more kills.

Edited by aniviron, 04 May 2015 - 12:21 PM.

[Lily from animove]

wow, the emch chassis statistics are truly interesting,

dat thudnerbolting, strormcrowing, timebrowlfing and hellbringering.

something is trully too meta with these when they make like 2x or more being choosen over the other chassis.
Esepcially in IS side, since they have more mechs for various tonnages yet TDR is too favoured.

[Duke Nedo]

Freebrewer Bmore, on 01 May 2015 - 11:33 PM, said:

Well, a dynamic mech-usage-derived dropdeck selection budget would:

1) Not &quot;discourage&quot; anyone from anything, any more than a 240-ton dropdeck budget &quot;discourages&quot; you from running 4 Dires; it just makes more than 2 not even an option. Likewise, a usage budget would likely let you run 1 of some variant that everyone and their mom is also trying to run, but not more than that. You could still run your TDR5SS, but not 3 of them plus a Firestarter or whatever. You'd need to balance that TBolt out with some lesser-used mechs, but here's the thing: the Clans would need to do the same... no more 3xCrow+Timber or whatever their flavor of the month is, either.

2) Allow for easier balancing between IS and Clan because balance within each will already be clarified. Currently the devs have already instituted a 250 IS vs. 240 Clan dropdeck tonnage limit, but a problem with balancing it that way is that it's warped not only by those chassis that are relatively stronger on a per-ton basis, but also by the fact that 10 extra tons can dramatically alter the possible mech combinations (and thus overall potency) in ways that are difficult to even understand, much less balance. With a dynamic usage-based dropdeck allocation, this stuff fixes itself: if you want to boost IS relative to Clan, you could just grant IS a bit more leeway to select mechs that are higher than median usage; if that leeway allows for certain OP IS mech combos to emerge, their ensuing popularity will drive them out of dropdeck feasibility again, with no developer intervention necessary.



It's also possible that the reason(s) don't reflect on the CTF's effectiveness so much as the effectiveness of the other mechs that could be fit into the same dropdeck. E.g. 3xCTF+1xCDA3M vs. 3xTDR+1xGRF2N, or 2xTDR+2xDRG. The wonderful thing about a dynamic usage-based system is that the devs don't need to be omniscient in order to balance all these factors. The system will balance itself until you have a diverse equilibrium.

Not so sure, it would favor the side with the highest number of viable mechs...

[Kaeseblock]

Lily from animove, on 01 May 2015 - 11:39 PM, said:

wow, the emch chassis statistics are truly interesting,

dat thudnerbolting, strormcrowing, timebrowlfing and hellbringering.

something is trully too meta with these when they make like 2x or more being choosen over the other chassis.
Esepcially in IS side, since they have more mechs for various tonnages yet TDR is too favoured.

Well, no big surprise here, since the TDR is one of the few IS chassis that can more or less keep up with their Clan counterparts

[Gattsus]

If it had lasted two weekends...

[Anjian]

Shatara, on 01 May 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

Points per player (per faction):

Davion: 11,236 / 2019 = 5.565
Kurita: 20,152 / 2092 = 9.633
Liao: 5,420 / 685 = 7.912
Marik: 8,544 / 1221 = 7.000
Rasalhague: 13,288 / 1812 = 7.333
Steiner: 19,315 / 2661 = 7.259
Clan Smoke Jaguar: 12,632 / 1110 = 11.380
Clan Jade Falcon: 19,427 / 1516 = 12.815
Clan Wolf: 34,350 / 2956 = 11.620
Clan Ghost Bear: 19,157 / 1862 = 10.288

Conclusion: davion is worst faction

And Jade Falcon de best.

Seriously, seems like a lot of players bowed out. I did. After the first 10 matches. The combination of high lag, meager rewards and facing 12 mans all the time was more than enough to make me bow out. Besides if I want those mechs, I can acquire them with regular play.

Edited by Anjian, 01 May 2015 - 11:50 PM.

[War Dogz]

• 
  
  

  Quote

  something is trully too meta with these when they make like 2x or more being choosen over the other chassis.
  Esepcially in IS side, since they have more mechs for various tonnages yet TDR is too favoured.
  
  
• 
  
• 
  Nah just shows that the IS dropped Rvn.TDR,TDR and Stk 50,000+ times as there drop decked

• Thunderbolt: 119429
  
• Stalker: 54313
  
• Raven: 53285

Edited by War Dogz, 01 May 2015 - 11:51 PM.

[MonkeyCheese]

John1352, on 01 May 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

Look at how high the clan trial mechs are. Lots of people who don't have a full dropdeck. (Or any clan mechs). The ice ferret prime has the worst CT, so pretty much all of them would have been trials.

Mine wasnt. I didnt have much time or willpower to play much cw but the ferret (prime cus cbill bonus) is the best fastest thing the clans currently have for rushing for gens or the final canon gen

[Winddancer]

If available, I'd be interested in the following statistical values:

Average Wait-Time(Time between queuing up and actually dropping) for premade 12 mans (IS/Clan), average wait-time for LFG groups (>12 man. IS/Clan), average wait-time for solo players (IS/Clan).

Also I would be interested in # of matches with less than 80 points (IS/Clan).

[Lily from animove]

Triordinant, on 01 May 2015 - 05:07 PM, said:

One third of the participants quit after getting 5 points or less. They must've been really frustrated.

Or they are the typically low time gamers, that play like 2 till4 hours a weekend.

Edited by Lily from animove, 02 May 2015 - 12:06 AM.