54 replies to this topic

[Scraith Rukyr]

Move two of the energy hardpoints down so that you don't have infinite peek-ability. Don't change the quirks or nerf the chassis, just move two hardpoints.

Edited by Scraith Rukyr, 04 May 2015 - 02:42 PM.

[Poisoner]

Or just leave it alone and give the clans an 85 ton mech that is comparable.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

It's been suggested before, and would make more sense for the stock LRMs in the arms:

Spoiler

Edited by Praetor Knight, 04 May 2015 - 02:46 PM.

[Scraith Rukyr]

Poisoner, on 04 May 2015 - 02:45 PM, said:

Or just leave it alone and give the clans an 85 ton mech that is comparable.

You have the TBR-A which brings that much firepower to bear when running 4 cerll, but the duration on clan larges makes it so that anything faster than a boulder can negate most of that damage, a hill peeking STK-4N can negate most of that damage. Also, I'm not talking Clan-IS balance here, just talking balance in general.

[Dusk Raven]

Poisoner, on 04 May 2015 - 02:45 PM, said:

Or just leave it alone and give the clans an 85 ton mech that is comparable.

We're talking a quick fix that won't take another GB of space, and have to wait until 2016 for. For that we'd have to wait for Wave III assuming the Executioner isn't complete balls, or Wave IV if it is.

[R Razor]

4N doesn't need fixed, but if changes are eventually made (due to incessant whining by a lot of Clan players) then those changes need to take place AFTER the Stormcrow and Timberwolf are addressed and brought into line.

[Jetfire]

Stalker 4N is anything but OP as an assault. It is decent, but it is not OP. It isn't even good enough to make it in my drop deck.

[Scraith Rukyr]

R Razor, on 04 May 2015 - 02:51 PM, said:

4N doesn't need fixed, but if changes are eventually made (due to incessant whining by a lot of Clan players) then those changes need to take place AFTER the Stormcrow and Timberwolf are addressed and brought into line.

Well, if we're gonna talk about things that need to be brought into line, then that would inclued the Huginn, the Firestarter, Most Thunderbolts, The Grid Iron, as well as the Storm Crow(more than the T-wolf) and possibly the T-wolf.

[Felicitatem Parco]

The Stalker 4N is only fielded because of the quirks. It is nothing other than a poor-version of other stalkers with hard points or maneuverability removed.

They quirked the hell out of it because it was designed intentionally to be the poorest stalker from the get-go and nobody used it. The way to fix it? Remove it from the game since it is nothing but redundant.

The 4N is cometely worthless without the over-quirks. You can build a 4N from other stalkers with better base maneuverability or better hard points. The 4N has nothing to make it stand out in any way other than artificial quirks. It is a waste of code.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 04 May 2015 - 03:00 PM.

[R Razor]

Scraith Rukyr, on 04 May 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

Well, if we're gonna talk about things that need to be brought into line, then that would inclued the Huginn, the Firestarter, Most Thunderbolts, The Grid Iron, as well as the Storm Crow(more than the T-wolf) and possibly the T-wolf.

You whiners already got your T-Bolt nerf. Please move on to something new.
I have no opinion either way on the Huggin.
The Grid Iron is fine the way it is.
The only thing that needs fixed on the Firestarter is the lag shield, but that applies to a LOT of light mechs.

[Chemie]

who says it is broken? (anymore than say SCR or TBR)?

[Scraith Rukyr]

Prosperity Park, on 04 May 2015 - 02:58 PM, said:

The Stalker 4N is only fielded because of the quirks. It is nothing other than a poor-version of other stalkers with hard points or maneuverability removed.

They quirked the hell out of it because it was designed intentionally to be the poorest stalker from the get-go and nobody used it. The way to fix it? Remove it from the game since it is nothing but redundant.

T is cometely worthless without the over quirks. You can build a 4N from other stalkers with better base maneuverability or better hard points. The 4N has nothing to make it stand out in any way other than artificial quirks. It is a waste of code.

While I do agree that quirks have gotten out of hand and flipped a good portion of the tier list on its head, I feel that the 4N is pretty adequate, however, it's the hardpoint location that really makes it step into the real of absurdity.

[FupDup]

The Stalker's "problem" is that it's well-designed instead of being designed like trash as many mechs are.

It doesn't have low tonnage, it doesn't have crappy hardpoints, it doesn't have bad hitboxes, and it doesn't have a crappy engine cap for its class. It's just an all-around good mech.

If it's not intentionally ultragimped in a specific area then clearly it's broken amirite?


Also note that the 4N variant was pretty much absent from play at every single level of the same and never used by ANYONE ever. Even Commandos and Kintaros can be seen every now and then, but a pre-quirk Stalker 4N was pretty much 100% extinct.

Edited by FupDup, 04 May 2015 - 03:04 PM.

[50 50]

As clan player, I don't care.
Got a effective build? Good for you. Endlessly trying to tweak and balance mechs is a bit of a pointless exercise.
As soon as you change something to try and balance it, something else will be the problem.
The 4N is good under certain circumstances and might beat all other builds in those circumstances. But, after that, meh.
It's really up to players to just use an effective counter. That's the balance.

Great pics btw.
A counter solution is in the second one.

Edited by 50 50, 04 May 2015 - 03:05 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Scraith Rukyr, on 04 May 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

While I do agree that quirks have gotten out of hand and flipped a good portion of the tier list on its head, I feel that the 4N is pretty adequate, however, it's the hardpoint location that really makes it step into the real of absurdity.

What the heck are you talking about?! The 4N has the same damn mounts as the other stalkers, just with gimped maneuverability and fewer overall hard points. They gave it massive quirks to make up for these stupid design choices.

Take a Stalker 3F and compare it to a 4N without quirks, them come back to the forums, okay?

Edited by Prosperity Park, 04 May 2015 - 03:06 PM.

[Dusk Raven]

R Razor, on 04 May 2015 - 02:58 PM, said:

You whiners already got your T-Bolt nerf. Please move on to something new.
I have no opinion either way on the Huggin.
The Grid Iron is fine the way it is.
The only thing that needs fixed on the Firestarter is the lag shield, but that applies to a LOT of light mechs.

The T-Bolt nerf was like trying to extinguish lava with an eye dropper.
The Huginn is... well, the Huginn. Flankmaster.
The Grid Iron is literally a high-mounted gauss peeking machine that hits you with a gauss shell and then giggles behind it's hill cover while you try to figure out where the shell came from.
aaaaand the Firestarter's SPL build is more effective than the Ember pre-poptart fix.
And if you start talking about lag shields, refer to the netcode on that one.

[Ultimax]

Scraith Rukyr, on 04 May 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

Move two of the energy hardpoints down so that you don't have infinite peek-ability. Don't change the quirks or nerf the chassis, just move two hardpoints.

Yeah why don't we just ruin one perfectly good mech to satisfy crybabies.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Just remove the damn thing from the game and give people Stalker 3F's. Solved.

[Scraith Rukyr]

FupDup, on 04 May 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

The Stalker's "problem" is that it's well-designed instead of being designed like trash as many mechs are.

It doesn't have low tonnage, it doesn't have crappy hardpoints, it doesn't have bad hitboxes, and it doesn't have a crappy engine cap for its class. It's just an all-around good mech.

If it's not intentionally ultragimped in a specific area then clearly it's broken amirite?


Also note that the 4N variant was pretty much absent from play at every single level of the same and never used by ANYONE ever. Even Commandos and Kintaros can be seen every now and then, but a pre-quirk Stalker 4N was pretty much 100% extinct.

I don't disagree with that sentiment, but being able to trade with that much firepower while exposing a sliver of your mech is a little imbalanced, all that I propose is that two E hardpoints be moved lower on the mech so that you get more of an opportunity to trade with it and it can still poke with a decent amount of firepower with its current level of peek superiority.

[R Razor]

Dusk Raven, on 04 May 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

The T-Bolt nerf was like trying to extinguish lava with an eye dropper. WRONG
The Huginn is... well, the Huginn. Flankmaster. DEAL WITH IT
The Grid Iron is literally a high-mounted gauss peeking machine that hits you with a gauss shell and then giggles behind it's hill cover while you try to figure out where the shell came from. SO?
aaaaand the Firestarter's SPL build is more effective than the Ember pre-poptart fix.SO?
And if you start talking about lag shields, refer to the netcode on that one. Doesn't matter what you choose to refer to, it is what gives the FS and a lot of other lights the God Like abilities they have.

Responses in your quote.