29 replies to this topic

[GrizzlyViking]

It now takes a minimum of 4 hours to take any planet and other than a miniscule faction bonus of C-Bills and Loyalty points for taking zones, what good is it? Especially knowing that the end game has nothing to do with how many planets are taken or defended. Given what we now know, there is really no point in taking planets. Winning or losing planets in the current system is irrelevant. Why would anyone want to spend 4 hours in CW to take planets that mean nothing?!?!

[Apnu]

Braggin' rights mostly.

There's quite a few units that like the "take over the map" mini-game.

I just wish it had more depth to it. Like perks for taking planets, and logistics to add in strategic complexity. I also wish there was a place for casuals and PUGs in CW. Some small, quick game modes that assisted the big shard flipping CW modes we have now.

[xX PUG Xx]

GizzlyViking, at the moment I would agree with you and Apnu basically has it right. The 1st iteration of CW Beta was no different however; so if you follow the same line of logic there was no point to taking planets then either, regardless of how long it took to do it.

I can only hope there will be an in game economic consideration to the seizing and holding of planets, I believe it has been mentioned before (albeit hidden amongst other comments on a different subject ) that PGI want Units holding planets to gain benefits, coffer gains, defensive options and so on. How this would filter down to individual players I am unsure, even if it came to fruition.

However it would at least give meaning to the never ending battles beyond the forum bragging rights (which can be quite entertaining TBH)

[hybrid black]

GrizzlyViking, on 04 May 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

It now takes a minimum of 4 hours to take any planet and other than a miniscule faction bonus of C-Bills and Loyalty points for taking zones, what good is it? Especially knowing that the end game has nothing to do with how many planets are taken or defended. Given what we now know, there is really no point in taking planets. Winning or losing planets in the current system is irrelevant. Why would anyone want to spend 4 hours in CW to take planets that mean nothing?!?!

This is a video game none of it means anything, you come up with your own reason to play.

[Aresye]

GrizzlyViking, on 04 May 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

It now takes a minimum of 4 hours to take any planet and other than a miniscule faction bonus of C-Bills and Loyalty points for taking zones, what good is it? Especially knowing that the end game has nothing to do with how many planets are taken or defended. Given what we now know, there is really no point in taking planets. Winning or losing planets in the current system is irrelevant. Why would anyone want to spend 4 hours in CW to take planets that mean nothing?!?!

[Lightning0861]

I agree with Hybrid 500% its always baffled me when people say "whats the point" in CW. Its a video game. We aren't taking Paris away from the {Godwin's Law} its always fake. You come up with your own reasons to play. I try to take the Map for Marik cause well I Am Marik and I like faction combat! I also like the tactics involved in the game mode. Your faction against mine! Lets see who can make who cease to exist! That in itself adds depth that randomly public match queing cant give (which I feel is arcadey).

[Syrkres]

One solution could be:

Turn on Re-arm/Repair for CW (only).

You would likely have to increase rewards for battles.

But for planets you could do something like the following:

Planet:
- Clan/House which it is owned by gets X% discount (for all)
- Unit which actually owns/controls it gets Y% discount (for Units)


These should be inclusive, so if a unit which has taken control of planet, they get +50% discount on R/R, while Clan/House gets 50%. So a unit with contract for house, gets 100% (free) R/R.

Obviously the percentages can be messed with, but used just for example.

This will make units which own planets more likely to defend a planet.


You could also do it on a global level,
For example:
- Unit for owning a planet gets 5% discount
- Clan/House for owning a planet gets 1% discount (they will own a lot more)

So a Unit which owns 10 planets for a House, would get 60% discount (10*5% + 10*1%).
But if a Unit owns a planet and then switches contracts (houses/clans) they could lose the +1% bonus. So a unit which fought for control for 5 planets, that switches to another house, still gets the 5% bonus for those planets (as long as they control them) but could also gain other planets for new house adding to their discount base.

Just some thoughts.

[Kdogg788]

Turning on rearm and repair for CW will kill it even worse than it is now. Given RnR, a team that gets wiped and/or spawn camped now not only finds themselves with no rewards but brutally punished for their bad round. It would greatly up the risk and decrease the population within CW even more. Remember the last iteration of RnR? Ammo based weapons were pretty scarce.

-k

[Chadamir Fitzkrieg]

Apnu, on 04 May 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:

Braggin' rights mostly.

There's quite a few units that like the "take over the map" mini-game.

I just wish it had more depth to it. Like perks for taking planets, and logistics to add in strategic complexity. I also wish there was a place for casuals and PUGs in CW. Some small, quick game modes that assisted the big shard flipping CW modes we have now.

Small strike missions. Lance on lance. Destroy a convoy or take locations. Disable strategic targets.

Ideally find ways to say, take out a mechlab so defenders can only drop on planet with 230 tons instead of 250. (arbitrary numbers)

Defenders can have ways of night raids against forward camps that are being built or assault a dropship that has landed doing the same to the attackers.

Denfense missions to rebuild mechlabs to raise tonnage again. Strike missions would be amazing.

Have lance v lance or 8 v 8 ways of helping the big groups take/defend planets

[sycocys]

Kdogg788, on 04 May 2015 - 10:47 AM, said:

Turning on rearm and repair for CW will kill it even worse than it is now. Given RnR, a team that gets wiped and/or spawn camped now not only finds themselves with no rewards but brutally punished for their bad round. It would greatly up the risk and decrease the population within CW even more. Remember the last iteration of RnR? Ammo based weapons were pretty scarce.

-k

If I recall correctly the only scarce weapon was lrms, and it was actually an effective tool for both balancing the game and encouraging players to engage in teamwork. Problem with it was more on the lines of people demanding to use the (then) op lrms combined with the publisher wanting to attract children to the game that would think having to pay to repair your robots was too hard.

[Apnu]

Thaddeus Radetzky, on 04 May 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

Small strike missions. Lance on lance. Destroy a convoy or take locations. Disable strategic targets.

Ideally find ways to say, take out a mechlab so defenders can only drop on planet with 230 tons instead of 250. (arbitrary numbers)

Defenders can have ways of night raids against forward camps that are being built or assault a dropship that has landed doing the same to the attackers.

Denfense missions to rebuild mechlabs to raise tonnage again. Strike missions would be amazing.

Have lance v lance or 8 v 8 ways of helping the big groups take/defend planets

^^^ This please!

Aresye Kerensky, on 04 May 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

You forgot the:
2

Edited by Apnu, 04 May 2015 - 11:14 AM.

[LordChu001]

There are many layers to the answer of a planet's relevance in MWO.

- Predating MWO, and part of why we have the Mechwarrior universe to begin with, planets were initially not the targets, but the factories and resources they held. Those imparted relative values to each planet in their contribution to the "war effort".
- When MWO was first released, there were plans to make each planet worth taking, although some would be more worth it than others. This would allow for strategic map changes rather than a generic land grab. However, the mechanics seem to be varied and very complex to implement, the player population still not massive enough, and the core game still needs work.

- One aspect which was never mentioned as being part of the MWO gameplan was "roleplay", that is, storytelling, to provide artificial relevance to the planets (such as "questing objectives"). This would have allowed for some reason to reach back water worlds and even make each map relevant to the story.

You have limited options at this time: you can wait or move on. Although most would like you to wait, and recruit/play/support/research backstory/participate in the meantime, you do what you feel you need to do.

GL HF! <o

www.the-aces.com

[Davers]

Syrkres, on 04 May 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

One solution could be:

Turn on Re-arm/Repair for CW (only).

You would likely have to increase rewards for battles.

But for planets you could do something like the following:

Planet:
- Clan/House which it is owned by gets X% discount (for all)
- Unit which actually owns/controls it gets Y% discount (for Units)


These should be inclusive, so if a unit which has taken control of planet, they get +50% discount on R/R, while Clan/House gets 50%. So a unit with contract for house, gets 100% (free) R/R.

Obviously the percentages can be messed with, but used just for example.

This will make units which own planets more likely to defend a planet.


You could also do it on a global level,
For example:
- Unit for owning a planet gets 5% discount
- Clan/House for owning a planet gets 1% discount (they will own a lot more)

So a Unit which owns 10 planets for a House, would get 60% discount (10*5% + 10*1%).
But if a Unit owns a planet and then switches contracts (houses/clans) they could lose the +1% bonus. So a unit which fought for control for 5 planets, that switches to another house, still gets the 5% bonus for those planets (as long as they control them) but could also gain other planets for new house adding to their discount base.

Just some thoughts.

Why is it when people want to add R&R they also want to increase rewards? If they add R&R, then war shouldn't be profitable. That's what the public queues are for.

Kdogg788, on 04 May 2015 - 10:47 AM, said:

Turning on rearm and repair for CW will kill it even worse than it is now. Given RnR, a team that gets wiped and/or spawn camped now not only finds themselves with no rewards but brutally punished for their bad round. It would greatly up the risk and decrease the population within CW even more. Remember the last iteration of RnR? Ammo based weapons were pretty scarce.

-k

Reducing the number of LRM boats will actually make the teams better.

Thaddeus Radetzky, on 04 May 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

Small strike missions. Lance on lance. Destroy a convoy or take locations. Disable strategic targets.

Ideally find ways to say, take out a mechlab so defenders can only drop on planet with 230 tons instead of 250. (arbitrary numbers)

Defenders can have ways of night raids against forward camps that are being built or assault a dropship that has landed doing the same to the attackers.

Denfense missions to rebuild mechlabs to raise tonnage again. Strike missions would be amazing.

Have lance v lance or 8 v 8 ways of helping the big groups take/defend planets

Sorry, this sounds great, but people will hate it. Light mechs would just run in and destroy the targets and everyone will complain that they aren't playing Rock'Em Sock'Em Robots.

[GrizzlyViking]

Lightning0861, on 04 May 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

I agree with Hybrid 500% its always baffled me when people say "whats the point" in CW. Its a video game. We aren't taking Paris away from the {Godwin's Law} its always fake. You come up with your own reasons to play. I try to take the Map for Marik cause well I Am Marik and I like faction combat! I also like the tactics involved in the game mode. Your faction against mine! Lets see who can make who cease to exist! That in itself adds depth that randomly public match queing cant give (which I feel is arcadey).

You know that those are not good enough reasons for most people to play CW, right? If they were good enough, then the CW population would be growing. Since it's declining and not growing, then there is clearly a problem. So, while I agree that there are some players, me included, who are willing to play CW for the reasons listed above, it is becoming abundantly clear that there are not enough of us who play for those reasons to support CW. PGI is going to have to make some significant changes/additions/improvements to draw more day-to-day MWO players into playing CW or CW will become a colossal waste of PGI's resources with little, if any, return on investment.

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 04 May 2015 - 01:44 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Syrkres, on 04 May 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

One solution could be:

Turn on Re-arm/Repair for CW (only).

You would likely have to increase rewards for battles.

But for planets you could do something like the following:

Planet:
- Clan/House which it is owned by gets X% discount (for all)
- Unit which actually owns/controls it gets Y% discount (for Units)


These should be inclusive, so if a unit which has taken control of planet, they get +50% discount on R/R, while Clan/House gets 50%. So a unit with contract for house, gets 100% (free) R/R.

Obviously the percentages can be messed with, but used just for example.

This will make units which own planets more likely to defend a planet.


You could also do it on a global level,
For example:
- Unit for owning a planet gets 5% discount
- Clan/House for owning a planet gets 1% discount (they will own a lot more)

So a Unit which owns 10 planets for a House, would get 60% discount (10*5% + 10*1%).
But if a Unit owns a planet and then switches contracts (houses/clans) they could lose the +1% bonus. So a unit which fought for control for 5 planets, that switches to another house, still gets the 5% bonus for those planets (as long as they control them) but could also gain other planets for new house adding to their discount base.

Just some thoughts.

RnR would kill it faster than you can say 'but it's a beta.'

[xX PUG Xx]

Not sure why people are so certain some form of r'nr' would "kill" this mode.

I still think every game mode should be incorporated into CW, the battles between Houses/Clans/Mercs over the various assets of the Inner Sphere is the whole reason Battletech and by extension Mechwarrior exists.

If every game played affected the larger metagame of CW and had mildly increased rewards, RnR could simply and easily added as an offset. I posted an outline of how i thought integrating every mode could work in another post but i'm using my phone so can't copy/paste it.

My opinion is that PGI should be looking to "include" everyone in the Community Warfare experience, the trick is doing it in such a way that everyone can choose their level of participation and involvement. Padding out the backstory of "why" we are actually fighting these battles will go a long way to helping but the main focus of most players will be on earning the CBills and i think my ideas would actually make that easier, even with RnR reintegrated. Afterall, you not only get the match rewards for CW you also work towards the Faction rewards.

[Vassago Rain]

RnR isn't fun, and gives huge advantages to people who blow real world dollars on premium time, premium consumables, premium robots, and so on.
Games are supposed to be fun.

If a game isn't fun, no one plays it. For a good example of something that's not fun, look at current day CW. It's so unfun, only about 100 people play. If you were to crowbar RnR, those 100 people would also leave for greener pastures.

[Havyek]

Spoiler alert: Taking planets in any video game has never meant anything, ever.

MW2/3/4 leagues? Take all the planets you want, you won! YAY!!! Map gets reset. What do you get? Besides an enlarged e-peen, nothing.

[xX PUG Xx]

100 players? Really? I would LOVE to see your evidence that supports that!

TBH if your attitude is and has been that CW is so broken that nothing anyone suggests could possibly do anything to help, why even make a post? Why not just go and haunt another forum/play another game?

Right now CW is quiet, playing 40 plus matches in 40 ish hours over the course of a week will do that to most people. So i can fully understand most units and solo players "taking a break", it does not mean that the desire for MWO to succeed has disappeared.

Seriously, i can't be in the minority that can still see ways for this to turn into an awesome interstellar struggle AND be accessible to all levels of player, am I?

Edited by xX PUG Xx, 04 May 2015 - 03:16 PM.

[GrizzlyViking]

xX PUG Xx, on 04 May 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

Seriously, i can't be in the minority that can still see ways for this to turn into an awesome interstellar struggle AND be accessible to all levels of player, am I?

I don't think you are in the minority in searching for better ways to make CW more attractive to the entire player base, but encumbering the current system with the historically VERY disliked R&R would drive more CW players into the public queue. The reason R&R was discontinued was because of the massive outcry from most of player base. That being known, I can't see any reason R&R would be considered to be something that would help improve the current state of CW.