139 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

The Mech Daddy, on 05 May 2015 - 12:32 AM, said:

Grid iron is the best hunchback. This isn't pay 2 win?

Really? It has one Missile and one less Ballistic than the free 4G. and Missiles are not the go to weapon when P2W is involved. I don't see a huge difference in quirks either.

[InspectorG]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 06 May 2015 - 12:21 AM, said:

Good to hear. I look forward to the day soon when I will be able to freely equip the same gatling gun gauss rifle with 50% cooldown that the Grid Iron has access to!

Any word on which cbill mechs are getting this awesome weapon next? Catapult K2 perchance?

.

Grid Iron, Misery, Huginn/Oxide are very strong choices currently.
Not P2W but strong in their respective roles.

Of the $ mech packs, for the IS the Mauler looks to be good.

For Clans the Arctic Cheetah will be the 1st fast Clan light and will likely be better than the Firestarter(current best light available) Shadow Cat looks good as well but maybe not Tier 1.

Cbill mechs are just as if not more viable that Heros due to quirks.

metamechs.com keeps a tier list for the different game modes that many comp players think is decent

Quirks really created roles(i use the term very lightly) for the unused variants. Like the Wubverine.

Gauss quirks aside from the Grid iron? Well, PGI is still experimenting but assume the roles are kinda cemented for now.
For Gauss quirks you will have to keep an eye on new mechs.

But IMO, Clan mechs will likely be getting the next quirk pass and the dual Gauss Warhawk is seeing some action.
Dual Gauss/2LPL,3erml Dire Whale is brutal if you like Gauss but it has no Gauss quirks. 50 tons pod space is the only quirk it really needs.

I doubt anything else will get the Gauss quirks the Grid iron has reieved because the other HBK variants hogged all the other hyper-specialized weapon quirks.
Im telling you, get the HBK G for the AC20 machine gun, and the J for run-n-gun LRMs. P is still decent lazor vomit as well.

[Tarl Cabot]

IMHO the biggest issue with the Clan Paywall, as some have put it, was from the fact that the Clan mechs would only be usable in the solo/group queue by anyone, but in the upcoming CW only those fighting on the Clan side could pilot Clan mechs. Even if, as a IS pilot, could only have 1 Clan mech on deck, even after a set time/threshold reached, my purchases would have been different.

Why purchase a lot of Clan mechs w/RL cash and elite them when you could not pilot them in the CW as an IS pilot, other than to help the game stay running? The CW aspect of it reduce the amount purchased from the whole thing to only a few then wait for the others to become available for c-bills.

[Revis Volek]

LordBraxton, on 05 May 2015 - 01:54 PM, said:

It isnt about giving things for free.

We already have an ungodly grind, that is what encouraged (me) people to shell out cash.

I work 50 hours a week, I dont have time to grind.

Warthunder, warframe, etc. etc. all work off this principle.

The paywall is seperate from that... and paywalls are p2w, even if the advantage is very small.

Some games make all their money off cosmetics. If MWO wasnt so ugly Im sure it could do the same.

Also, Im sick of the 'poor starving PGI' excuse. They made 5mil off founders packs alone and have only made the game lower quality since.

*note* Quality and quantity are not the same. PGI has added a ton of things to MWO, but each individual part degraded overtime. We have more mechs, and maps, but they all look uglier. We have 12v12, but 8v8 was more balanced. We got CW... but it's trash.

If they arent behind some kind of paywell how are they going to make sure they even make back enough money for the time put in to make it lucrative?

In my business when i purchase one 12x24 sheet of plastic sheet goods I make sure usually on the first job that the sheet and the cost rolled into processing it from when it came off the truck to the final product that it is paid for AND my business makes a profit. That is labor, Electric, My machines running, computers and man hour(s) for ONE $15 dollar sheet. So i better make my money back from the first job AND make a profit or i lost.

So my pricing structure has been setup to reflect that, PGI has setup a pretty decent and rather cheap way of playing this game if you DO NOT have the funds to get mechs. All you MUST pay for is mech bays and they are pretty cheap. So that rolled into comsetics is their bread and butter from the whole community. But when do they make money off mechs? Using this method there is never a time when your hard work is really required to be paid for outside maybe $3.50 to make it look cool and house one. Hardly worth it IMO...

So they setup the paywall, this is a much better way IMO to assure your time and effort is not a loss... it isnt a sure thing BTW, what if NO ONE buys it still because its the same or lame or broken? TOTAL loss! But there is the chance that SOME will pay for the mech and the time and the man hours and the computers and electric and Russ' coffee and Tina's haircut and Paul's new shoes will not be loans from a bank by PGI so they can make payroll and keep the servers up.

Again, maybe there is a much better way and maybe not. I don't see it being any better any other way or really any different. You either grind for them or buy them its a matter of again weather or not YOUR boss is looking out for you at work or you have time to spend to afford them that way. I mean is a pay vs cbill option from the get go really any more lucrative? its surely a death sentence for a business to sell their product at one door and give them away for free at another at the same time.

PS, tell me this map is ugly....

Edited by DarthRevis, 06 May 2015 - 09:31 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

i actually like that map

[N0MAD]

DarthRevis, on 06 May 2015 - 09:22 PM, said:

If they arent behind some kind of paywell how are they going to make sure they even make back enough money for the time put in to make it lucrative?

In my business when i purchase one 12x24 sheet of plastic sheet goods I make sure usually on the first job that the sheet and the cost rolled into processing it from when it came off the truck to the final product that it is paid for AND my business makes a profit. That is labor, Electric, My machines running, computers and man hour(s) for ONE $15 dollar sheet. So i better make my money back from the first job AND make a profit or i lost.

So my pricing structure has been setup to reflect that, PGI has setup a pretty decent and rather cheap way of playing this game if you DO NOT have the funds to get mechs. All you MUST pay for is mech bays and they are pretty cheap. So that rolled into comsetics is their bread and butter from the whole community. But when do they make money off mechs? Using this method there is never a time when your hard work is really required to be paid for outside maybe $3.50 to make it look cool and house one. Hardly worth it IMO...

So they setup the paywall, this is a much better way IMO to assure your time and effort is not a loss... it isnt a sure thing BTW, what if NO ONE buys it still because its the same or lame or broken? TOTAL loss! But there is the chance that SOME will pay for the mech and the time and the man hours and the computers and electric and Russ' coffee and Tina's haircut and Paul's new shoes will not be loans from a bank by PGI so they can make payroll and keep the servers up.

Again, maybe there is a much better way and maybe not. I don't see it being any better any other way or really any different. You either grind for them or buy them its a matter of again weather or not YOUR boss is looking out for you at work or you have time to spend to afford them that way. I mean is a pay vs cbill option from the get go really any more lucrative? its surely a death sentence for a business to sell their product at one door and give them away for free at another at the same time.

PS, tell me this map is ugly....

That map is ugly.. no joke, horrible colors, ohh do you mean that 2 dimensional sphere with the static what is it clouds around it? its completely missing any movement or animation just a static giff and i dont mean your pic.
So what you saying and showing is a blue circle in a static sky? is a good attractive map? man you need to get out there and actually see good graphics in games..
word ********* is not allowed? that is bl ue ball?? thats funny

so is red ball ok? how about white ball, pink ball, green ball, now we are going to try blue, *********, lol nope cant have a blue.......ball.

Edited by N0MAD, 06 May 2015 - 10:25 PM.

[Escef]

Rejarial Galatan, on 06 May 2015 - 08:38 PM, said:

escef go away.

Don't know the way out, maybe you should quit again instead?

[Kilo 40]

Escef, on 06 May 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

Ok, let me clue you in to something here.

You are NOT from clan wolf. You will NOT die at the controls of a battlemech. And you will NOT die for clan wolf. You are a middle aged geek playing a video game. Get over yourself.

[KharnZor]

Rejarial Galatan, on 06 May 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

Look Steiner trash, you obviously are flawed in many ways. No good converse can be had with one as closed as you.

i dont even

[Joseph Mallan]

KharnZor, on 06 May 2015 - 10:29 PM, said:

i dont even

I don't either... That quote links back to my post for some reason...

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 May 2015 - 04:37 AM.

[SoHxPaladin]

"I can't get the new shiny that has this thing that is awesome because I won't spend the money for it so I have to wait for it and die to it over and over till I learn how to better pilot what I have brought to the fight that is essential to the game."

I love the run-on sentences of upset 2yr old mindsets when they are playing a game that requires some skill, situational awareness, and teamwork when they do not get their way.

Please, entertain me MOAR! It is greatly appreciated.

[TWIAFU]

LordBraxton, on 05 May 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

whoa... ok dude... youre not reading.

[color=#959595]Even the SLIGHTEST advantage is p2w, and there are always slight advantages behind the paywall...[/color]

I made sure to write that in all caps.

But to answer your question, some of them.

I have a scrow\hellbie\twolf\mdd

Only the scrow is mastered because of the half off sale.

My twolf is my most powerful mech and it's only basiced.

I certainly am not asking for everything for free.

However, I have spent over $400 on MWO, yet the grind is still horrible and I'm still waiting for my good graphics back. I spent about $200 of that $400 while the graphics were still good.


^^^ Chagatay made a great post. TTK IS the biggest issue for the 'fun' level of this game right now.

Stop reading p2w as literal. It does not mean, buy Twolf early, win 100% of the time.

It means buy Twolf 6 months before they other guy does, have a 10% advantage for 6 months.

Of course skill trumps this. But a slightly worse pilot in a twolf will still beat most other heavies.

Then by your definition of p2w, "even the slightest advantage is p2w" and " TWof 6months before the other guy does, has advantage for 6 months" then every person here since closed beta is p2w?

They have advantage over all others due to experience in closed beta and any advantage is p2w.

[TKSax]

TWIAFU, on 07 May 2015 - 05:24 AM, said:

Then by your definition of p2w, "even the slightest advantage is p2w" and " TWof 6months before the other guy does, has advantage for 6 months" then every person here since closed beta is p2w?

They have advantage over all others due to experience in closed beta and any advantage is p2w.

You can't pay for experience, but if you can pay for a mech with real money that you cannot buy with in game currency is pay to something. If that mech, and in the case with the timber wolf and stormcrow and lesser extend Dire Wolf when the first came out out were/are the best mechs in the game. In those cases they were certainly Pay 2 Win. The Timber especially allowed good pilots/teams to beat other pilots/teams that were better if they were not running those mechs. I agree that it is ok to have pay for early access, but to put things behind a paywall , that give you even the slightest advantage is the definition of pay 2 win.

They need to shorten the time between the gift store/mech release paywall. I have no issue with pay for early access even if those mechs are better, but to not be able to get them for months with in game currency is ridiculous.

Edited by TKSax, 07 May 2015 - 07:37 AM.

[Almond Brown]

LordBraxton, on 05 May 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

Im stopping here.

If mechs arent content, then we havent gotten much content in the past few years, have we?

​CB was best MWO

PGI needs to bribe all their old employees to come back.

This community can't see the difference between quality and quantity. So I guess PGI has the perfect business model to scam our collective stupidity for the next few years.

Welcome to the Collective dude. That BIG chair up there is for you. The Collective wishes you to sit upon high so to be assured that they can hear your "continued and incessant" butt hurt whining for the next few years

[Almond Brown]

Quote

Of course skill trumps this. But a slightly worse pilot in a twolf will still beat most other heavies.

Chillax dude. You got your panties wadded so tight now they appear to have started to effect your brain directly.

[Almond Brown]

bad arcade kitty, on 05 May 2015 - 04:21 PM, said:

they force you to buy at least 3 for 30$,

It's brutal really. How they get away with "forcing" players to BUY stuff, especially "forced" to buy all that P2W stuff.

Should be a Law against "being forced".

Dude you are ******* unbelievable... I once owned a Lemming that showed more common sense than you just exhibited ffs.

Mystere, on 05 May 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

Are you saying the Urbanmech is OP, and which is why they released it only recently?

The UrbanMech is built of PAYWALL cement and P2W grade rebar good sir. LOL

[TWIAFU]

TKSax, on 07 May 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

You can't pay for experience, but if you can pay for a mech with real money that you cannot buy with in game currency is pay to something. If that mech, and in the case with the timber wolf and stormcrow and lesser extend Dire Wolf when the first came out out were/are the best mechs in the game. In those cases they were certainly Pay 2 Win. The Timber especially allowed good pilots/teams to beat other pilots/teams that were better if they were not running those mechs. I agree that it is ok to have pay for early access, but to put things behind a paywall , that give you even the slightest advantage is the definition of pay 2 win.

They need to shorten the time between the gift store/mech release paywall. I have no issue with pay for early access even if those mechs are better, but to not be able to get them for months with in game currency is ridiculous.

If those Clan mechs are so P2W, you had better ask for your money back if you are loosing with them.

So, when those mech are available for C-Bills will they still be P2W?

Not only that, you seem to fail to realize the cannon reason as to why Clan 'mechs are superior to IS counterparts. If you want balance between Clan and IS you had better go play Hawkken.

You do understand how business works, right? Even in a F2P model such as this they need to do things that make money so you do not have to spend any but complain about people that do.

If you do not want to wait for months to get a new shiney while other get it before you, there is a solution to that. Go buy them and support the game you play, wait like everyone else, or keep channeling Veruca Salt.

[Xetelian]

This thread is obviously trolling for posts and people dedicated 7 pagese too bizarre conversations.


No, there is no Pay 2 Win
There just isn't
Everything you can get with MC and real money is either cosmetic or available as free 2 play at some point.

[Burktross]

At most its pay for a temporary win.
Most.

TWIAFU, on 07 May 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

Not only that, you seem to fail to realize the cannon reason as to why Clan 'mechs are superior to IS counterparts. If you want balance between Clan and IS you had better go play Hawkken.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Battle_Value

It balanced clanners and spheroids on TT.

But guess what we don't have here?

(HINT: It's battlevalue).

Thus as unfortunate it is to clan lore, we are unable to appropriately balance asymmetrically in a symmetric game with no BV mechanic.

[TKSax]

TWIAFU, on 07 May 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

If those Clan mechs are so P2W, you had better ask for your money back if you are loosing with them.

So, when those mech are available for C-Bills will they still be P2W?

Not only that, you seem to fail to realize the cannon reason as to why Clan 'mechs are superior to IS counterparts. If you want balance between Clan and IS you had better go play Hawkken.

You do understand how business works, right? Even in a F2P model such as this they need to do things that make money so you do not have to spend any but complain about people that do.

If you do not want to wait for months to get a new shiney while other get it before you, there is a solution to that. Go buy them and support the game you play, wait like everyone else, or keep channeling Veruca Salt.

Dude drop the passive aggressive attack horsecrap. Have a conversation like an adult not some jackass. You assume I do not by packs when it clearly say Elite Founder in my title. I have every pack except Saber and Clan Wave 1 and Resistance Wave II, I bought a Timber wolf Ala-Carte , so stop being elitist and bragging about how much money you and others have spent.

You clearly do not understand what Pay 2 Win is if you are even asking Clan mechs that are available for in game currency would be considered P2W by people. So lets try it again, if you can only buy a mech with Real World Money and the mech it gives any advantage over what is in Game, it is Pay 2 win. If the mech is available for both real world money and in game currency it is simply pay for convince.

The way PGI is doing mech packs now does not really bother me that much since wave 1 was released , they have shorten they how the mechs were released compared to how the Clan Wave 1 release was handled (I know IGP had input into that) , so to be clear I am not complaining about the mech packs. I hate how they are doing the gift store, but new variants in the gift store for months is stupid. A few weeks would be fine, and month is kinda stupid several months is just dumb.

I understand PGI needs to make Money, but they need to come up with a more diverse monetary strategy than Mech Packs and pay-wall gift store mechs. The reason I have no plans to buy resistance wave 2 is I have a ton of in game currency tons of mechs so I will just wait for the c-bill.

As far as Clans op, balanced of the game is more important than any lore considerations, the clans should be different (better range ,lighter weapons for example are are good start) but they should just be op because the lore says so, or in the long run no one would play IS.

Xetelian, on 07 May 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

This thread is obviously trolling for posts and people dedicated 7 pagese too bizarre conversations.

No, there is no Pay 2 Win
There just isn't
Everything you can get with MC and real money is either cosmetic or available as free 2 play at some point.

Current Pay 2 Win Stuff in MWO
GFR-2N - Only ECM Variant, only avaialbe in Gift Store for Real Money
SCR-B - Ungodly Laser Arm, that will kill off the Nova
TBR-A - High Energy mounts, that even with negative quirks are a huge advantage and allows asymmetric builds
DWF-W - 2 Center Torso Energy Mounts that could also allow for some nice asymmetric builds

The fact that they will be available in 3 months for C-bills does not change the fact that right now these are the very definition of Pay 2 Win.

Now I do not think Mechwarrior online is overall Pay 2 win even those 4 mechs above are not a huge advantage, but by strict definition are most certainly Pay 2 win. However I am sure the IS loyalist are going to love when the Cataphract with ECM is going to be behind a pay-wall for 2 to 3 months....

Edited by TKSax, 07 May 2015 - 12:01 PM.