260 replies to this topic

[The Great Unwashed]

I'm not exactly sure how a weapon that fires a 100 kg slug at Mach 6 could possibly have a minimum range.

I'd probably like the Gauss a lot more if it did not have the charge time, which is a bit odd as energy weapons charge just fine, but I also like a powerful weapon that requires some skill to use and has its own feel.

If the charge time is reduced or even removed, then all Grid Irons must first be removed from the game entirely. Abominations of balance...

Or... some hardpoints on some mechs come with Gauss charge quirks... and the DWF 1B/4E doesn't get any... of course.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 06 May 2015 - 03:54 AM.

[Dolph Hoskins]

Getting rid of the charge or screwing with the gauss rifle in anyway at the moment would seem like one of those colossal PGI screw ups that come from listening to minor complaints over exaggerated to the point of monumental BS.

So someone got shot and killed by a gauss rife? Oh s**t! We better change something right now!

[Widowmaker1981]

The Great Unwashed, on 06 May 2015 - 03:49 AM, said:

I'm not exactly sure how a weapon that fires a 100 kg slug at Mach 6 could possibly have a minimum range.

Makes about as much sense as PPCs having a minimum range, or having a velocity less than 50% of light speed for that matter.

[G-LOC]

The Ripper13, on 06 May 2015 - 03:51 AM, said:

Getting rid of the charge or screwing with the gauss rifle in anyway at the moment would seem like one of those colossal PGI screw ups that come from listening to minor complaints over exaggerated to the point of monumental BS.

So someone got shot and killed by a gauss rife? Oh s**t! We better change something right now!

I disagree entirely, one of those colossal PGI screw ups was when they added charge in the first place because they haven't figured out a sensible way to employ balance to certain weapons.

[Dolph Hoskins]

G-LOC, on 06 May 2015 - 03:57 AM, said:

I disagree entirely, one of those colossal PGI screw ups was when they added charge in the first place because they haven't figured out a sensible way to employ balance to certain weapons.

Well anytime I read about "balance" on a game forum. I know what I am actually reading about is an opinion.

[Bobzilla]

Hit the Deck, on 06 May 2015 - 03:35 AM, said:

And you have 1.25s for firing your Gauss before it loses its charge. If you somehow think that it's best not to fire and then re-aim, then you can only fire it after recharging it up after 0.75s. So it magnifies user error, punish indecisiveness, and raise the difficulty. Peek-a-booing also has got a difficulty raise by making you to precharge if you want to instantly fire your Gauss the moment you come out from cover and see the enemy. And like always, you only have 1,25s to take the shot. In spite all of these, good players will always be better than the rest and they can like, headshotting a jumping Spider from 1000m with a Gauss.

As for LRMs, I'm not that well versed on BT lore but quoting SARNA:

[/sup]
It looks similar to my suggestion?

Oh don't quote any lore or TT rules because this game is different, also the gauss should have a min range of 2 according to it.

The point of the min range added to gauss is obvious. The charge doesn't add any balance to the weapon for anyone that is used to it, at all. All it does is cut down on it's use overall or cause more cases of dual useage.

A min range would give it an actual weakness or counter.

[Joseph Mallan]

The Great Unwashed, on 06 May 2015 - 03:49 AM, said:

I'm not exactly sure how a weapon that fires a 100 kg slug at Mach 6 could possibly have a minimum range.

I'd probably like the Gauss a lot more if it did not have the charge time, which is a bit odd as energy weapons charge just fine, but I also like a powerful weapon that requires some skill to use and has its own feel.

If the charge time is reduced or even removed, then all Grid Irons must first be removed from the game entirely. Abominations of balance...

Or... some hardpoints on some mechs come with Gauss charge quirks... and the DWF 1B/4E doesn't get any... of course.

Neither did I. But the charging requirement does do a good job making it more difficult to hit at close range.

[Hit the Deck]

Bobzilla, on 06 May 2015 - 04:09 AM, said:

Oh don't quote any lore or TT rules because this game is different, also the gauss should have a min range of 2 according to it.

But I want my MechWarrior games to follow the source material because I'm just like that and I don't even play the tabletop version!

You can think that the charge up mechanism as a simulation for the decrease to hit at that range (2).

[Dolph Hoskins]

I don't think people even consider the implications of what they request half of the time.

Speak solely on the charge matter. If it was removed the number of gauss shots received and exchanged in peeking battles, which is a huge percentage of the type of fighting that goes on this game would rise sharply. Think about it. You step out then and are instantly hit with gauss. Aiming and timing would be reduced to basic levels. If someone can hit an array of targets with the way it currently is now more power to them.

People would probably be dying to gauss even more if they removed the charge.

[Bobzilla]

Hit the Deck, on 06 May 2015 - 04:22 AM, said:

But I want my MechWarrior games to follow the source material because I'm just like that and I don't even play the tabletop version! You can think that the charge up mechanism as a simulation for the decrease to hit at that range (2).

But there lies the problem, they have that decrease to hit even at optimal ranges. It's just as easy to hit in a brawl as it is at range.

The Ripper13, on 06 May 2015 - 04:27 AM, said:

I don't think people even consider the implications of what they request half of the time. Speak solely on the charge matter. If it was removed the number of gauss shots received and exchanged in peeking battles, which is a huge percentage of the type of fighting that goes on this game would rise sharply. Think about it. You step out then and are instantly hit with gauss. Aiming and timing would be reduced to basic levels. If someone can hit an array of targets with the way it currently is now more power to them. People would probably be dying to gauss even more if they removed the charge.

But a min range would give a reason to not peekaboo as a counter. Any advantage to brawling is needed in this game, as well as any reason to have mixed loadouts, much less people would devote 30ish tons to weapons that are negated by a min range. Brawling matches would also favor IS over clans.

[The Great Unwashed]

The Gauss rifle is a near-instant-hit 15 PPFLD weapon with no visible trace or projectile drop... it is balanced by being very very heavy (stop complaining the clan version is too light, there's almost no mech that can effectively take two), ridiculously low internal health, heavy ammo and, yes, the charge time. Mechanics between IS and clan are the same. It is perfect No minimum range is required because hitting a circling light with twin Gauss rifles needs some planning and if you carry one in your torso it is very easy to take out for a light.

Weapons that really ruin the game are Gauss Rifles on Grid Irons and AC5-quirked Dragons (1N); both gets 16 tons worth of weapons for free. Shall we try that on a clan mech?

Widowmaker1981, on 06 May 2015 - 03:54 AM, said:

Makes about as much sense as PPCs having a minimum range, or having a velocity less than 50% of light speed for that matter.

Dunno, a PPC is something that shoots little balls of blue and works by magic, so anything goes... same way photons decide to stop being a laser beam and go on vacation after 300 meters.... so following that logic the Gauss could have a minimum range.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 06 May 2015 - 04:56 AM.

[G-LOC]

Yup, more people would die to gauss shots if the charge was removed, there's really no question, but if you bumped the recycle time to 10 seconds for a gauss that really screws the brawler aspect of a Gauss rifle and it allows mechs with ACs to close the gap and duke it out.

To me this seems like far and away the best solution, it keeps it as a sniper weapon but removes its viability as a brawler. Woe betide any sniper Gauss-Wolf caught out by a firestarter, 2x15 Damage over 10 seconds is 3 DPS, even as FLD it's nothing and the firestarter will quite literally run rings around it.

[Joseph Mallan]

G-LOC, on 06 May 2015 - 04:37 AM, said:

Yup, more people would die to gauss shots if the charge was removed, there's really no question, but if you bumped the recycle time to 10 seconds for a gauss that really screws the brawler aspect of a Gauss rifle and it allows mechs with ACs to close the gap and duke it out.

To me this seems like far and away the best solution, it keeps it as a sniper weapon but removes its viability as a brawler. Woe betide any sniper Gauss-Wolf caught out by a firestarter, 2x15 Damage over 10 seconds is 3 DPS, even as FLD it's nothing and the firestarter will quite literally run rings around it.

I've used a Gauss for 20+ as a heavy hitting cannon. It's not just for sniping.

[Dolph Hoskins]

Bobzilla, on 06 May 2015 - 04:34 AM, said:

But there lies the problem, they have that decrease to hit even at optimal ranges. It's just as easy to hit in a brawl as it is at range.



But a min range would give a reason to not peekaboo as a counter. Any advantage to brawling is needed in this game, as well as any reason to have mixed loadouts, much less people would devote 30ish tons to weapons that are negated by a min range. Brawling matches would also favor IS over clans.

I just can not get behind that idea because it makes little sense and the weapon still requires aiming and timing to hit your target.

Plus what mech are we usually talking about when people complain about dual gauss? The direwolf??? Not exactly the fastest turning mech either.

[Hit the Deck]

Bobzilla, on 06 May 2015 - 04:34 AM, said:

But there lies the problem, they have that decrease to hit even at optimal ranges. It's just as easy to hit in a brawl as it is at range.

I think it as an increase difficuty to hit at all ranges with it getting more difficult as the range decreases.

G-LOC, on 06 May 2015 - 04:37 AM, said:

Woe betide any sniper Gauss-Wolf caught out by a firestarter, 2x15 Damage over 10 seconds is 3 DPS, even as FLD it's nothing and the firestarter will quite literally run rings around it.

What has it done to you that you want to reduce its DPS to a small pulse laser level?

[Quaamik]

Adiuvo, on 05 May 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

Raising the skill floor of the best weapon in this game is a good thing. If a poor player somehow finds the gauss charge unplayable, then they have two options: use a different weapon, or get better.

No, its not.

Raising the skill floor for the "best" weapon, or "best" mech just makes it so that when an average or lower player runs across someone who can use it they are that much further outclassed.

Weapons should be tweaked so the top end (expert level) is hard to reach, but the floor (entry level) is accessible to all.

[Khan Warlock Kell]

The gauss charge up mechanic is just a bad mechanic full stop created in the short term to fix a particular problem. It was a bad idea at the time, and it still remains a bad idea. As far as I can see the only reason it remains is because PGI balancing moved on to other things, and its something PGI just tend to overlook, it not actually being a good solution. There wasn't a big enough fuss by the player base to change it back after the initial trial of the mechanic. ad it's just kinda managed to not draw too much attention to itself.

a BT Gauss should be a point and shoot weapon. my vote would be to return it to its true mechanic, Put in a minimum range increase the recharge time, lower slightly he projectile speed, and increase the damage it causes if its destroyed unless case is fitted.

[Hit the Deck]

Quaamik, on 06 May 2015 - 04:59 AM, said:

Weapons should be tweaked so the top end (expert level) is hard to reach, but the floor (entry level) is accessible to all.

It sounds good so do you have anything to suggest for our Gauss?

Khan Warlock Kell, on 06 May 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

The gauss charge up mechanic is just a bad mechanic full stop created in the short term to fix a particular problem. It was a bad idea at the time, and it still remains a bad idea.

I'd like to hear why it is bad if you care to elaborate!

Edited by Hit the Deck, 06 May 2015 - 05:09 AM.

[ZhaLinth]

Bobzilla, on 06 May 2015 - 04:34 AM, said:

But there lies the problem, they have that decrease to hit even at optimal ranges. It's just as easy to hit in a brawl as it is at range.

It might be easy to hit with in a brawl, but hitting the desired component is quite hard due to the charge mechanic.
Charge is up, he twists, he turns back you have to charge again.

Having such a low ammo count you really don't want to waste your shots on a healthy component.

[Gyrok]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 May 2015 - 04:03 PM, said:

Wait, shouldn't this be "take away the charge from IS Gauss only?!?!?!"

What have you done with the real Johnny Z?

Alright, I admit, I lol'ed.