82 replies to this topic

[Eider]

Serpieri, on 06 May 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:

And when clanners get an ECM assault we will do the same.

People don't really want balance - they just want to stick it to the other guy.

They dont already? And yes i have clan mechs too, i did not cry about anything even nerfs to my timber. How some can pretend they arent needed is beyond laughable. YOU cant claim you want balance less you forget the 90% win ratio when they did their secret tests of is vs clan. Helps if you pilot more than 3 mechs.

Edited by Eider, 06 May 2015 - 10:19 PM.

[Escef]

Ralgas, on 06 May 2015 - 09:37 PM, said:

where did anyone get the idea the battlemaster was getting ecm?

has a command console, bap 7e, 1m + it's hardpoint inflation. From sarna-

• BLR-2C Dating back from 2925, this designated command vehicle sported a second cockpit (presumably a Command Console) and a Beagle Active Probe wired into the Nirasaki Inciteful Vision targeting system. Instead of the machine guns it carried a SureFire Defender Anti-Missile System in the left arm, retaining the rearward firing lasers. Like with the BLR-1C, House Kurita received at least one BLR-2C from ComStar in full working condition and used it to good effect in the War of 3039. BV (1.0) = ?, BV (2.0) = 1,563^[29]

Where? Well, the only other mech in game that has a Command Console is the Atlas D-DC. What is the D-DC known for again? Oh, yeah, that.

Anyway, I exchanged a couple tweets with Russ, and he says it won't have ECM. I was rather disappointed.

[Ralgas]

Escef, on 06 May 2015 - 10:21 PM, said:

Where? Well, the only other mech in game that has a Command Console is the Atlas D-DC. What is the D-DC known for again? Oh, yeah, that.

Anyway, I exchanged a couple tweets with Russ, and he says it won't have ECM. I was rather disappointed.

it was also known for it's command console, 3 tons of wasted space to stink up your mechbay or sell till the clans got here. That's fixed now (even if it is still barely worth looking at).

Edited by Ralgas, 06 May 2015 - 10:31 PM.

[Knight Magus]

Serpieri, on 06 May 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:

And when clanners get an ECM assault we will do the same.

People don't really want balance - they just want to stick it to the other guy.

Sadly this is very true.

[Paigan]

El Bandito, on 06 May 2015 - 05:22 PM, said:

Why should we rejoice about ECM being placed on the crappiest 70 tonner in MWO?

Well, the HBR is a pretty crappy mech as well apart from it's ECM.
The arms hardly protect the torso and 2/3 of its weapons depend on ONE single component, the LT. Destroy that and the mech is moreless naked.
Kitfox isn't too good, either, having all its (relevant) weapons in the arms.

Imho the idea of ECM is to take a crappy mech and improve its viability.
So why SHOULDN'T the cataphract get ECM?

[Ursh]

Cataphracts are godless killing machines. Be afraid.

[El Bandito]

Paigan, on 07 May 2015 - 12:11 AM, said:

Well, the HBR is a pretty crappy mech as well apart from it's ECM.
The arms hardly protect the torso and 2/3 of its weapons depend on ONE single component, the LT. Destroy that and the mech is moreless naked.
Kitfox isn't too good, either, having all its (relevant) weapons in the arms.

Imho the idea of ECM is to take a crappy mech and improve its viability.
So why SHOULDN'T the cataphract get ECM?

1. Hellbringer without ECM is not crap. Ask everyone here.

2. Your "ECM is meant as a crutch for bad mechs" argument is laughable cause Arctic Cheater and Shadow Cat, which are coming out in wave 3 both are not bad mechs by default.

3. Unlike the Hellbringer, or Shadow Cat, or the Arctic Cheater, that ECM Cataphract is not gonna be viable in CW, making it a waste of a mech to put ECM on--unless the mech gets big hardpoint inflation and have 3 of them mounted high.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 May 2015 - 12:27 AM.

[Sergeant Random]

It sounds like it needs more hardpoints tho. I wonder what PGI will do with that dispenser thingie. (New equipment for a missile hardpoint? UAV dispenser?)

[Escef]

Ralgas, on 06 May 2015 - 10:30 PM, said:

it was also known for it's command console, 3 tons of wasted space to stink up your mechbay or sell till the clans got here. That's fixed now (even if it is still barely worth looking at).

It's also known for being the only ECM capable Inner Sphere assault mech. Nothing like dodging the point and doubling down on being an ignoramus, is there?

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 07 May 2015 - 12:22 AM, said:

3. Unlike the Hellbringer, or Shadow Cat, or the Arctic Cheater, that ECM Cataphract is not gonna be viable in CW, making it a waste of a mech to put ECM on--unless the mech gets big hardpoint inflation and have 3 of them mounted high.

The CTF-0X from what I recall is that it has no high mounts.

Arms are already low, but the ECM Left Torso has no energy hardpoints and the Right Torso has ONLY ballistics, which are already low (needed JJs back when the 3D was actually good).

In essence, it harbors most of the negative aspects of the Cataphract... all for ECM. At best it could brawl.....

[Ralgas]

Escef, on 07 May 2015 - 12:42 AM, said:

It's also known for being the only ECM capable Inner Sphere assault mech. Nothing like dodging the point and doubling down on being an ignoramus, is there?

given something else because it was missing gear not yet built into the game. who was dodging the point?

Edited by Ralgas, 07 May 2015 - 12:52 AM.

[Paigan]

El Bandito, on 07 May 2015 - 12:22 AM, said:

1. Hellbringer without ECM is not crap. Ask everyone here.
[...]

You see: I provided an argument (too much equipment dependency to one component, thus unusual high vulnerability, thus unusual bad mech apart from the ECM)
You just say "no it isn't". Asking everyone is not a valid argument. In the middle ages, "everyone" was convinced the earth is flat. Real, logical arguments count, not "ask everyone". Btw. you meant "ask anyone", not everyone.

As long as no such arguments are provided, I consider you an idiot, sorry.

Edited by Paigan, 07 May 2015 - 01:03 AM.

[Blood Rose]

Paigan, on 07 May 2015 - 01:01 AM, said:

You see: I provided an argument (too much equipment dependency to one component, thus unusual high vulnerability, thus unusual bad mech apart from the ECM)
You just say "no it isn't". Asking everyone is not a valid argument. In the middle ages, "everyone" was convinced the earth is flat. Real, logical arguments count, not "ask everyone". Btw. you meant "ask anyone", not everyone.

As long as no such arguments are provided, I consider you an idiot, sorry.

HBR Laser Vomit. Trust me, if you have not faced one of these yet then you do NOT want to.

[Ultimax]

Escef, on 06 May 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

You rank it lower than the Summoner? Wow. Remember the days back when the Cataphract was King of the Heavies?

The different variants of Cataphract rate from worse (almost all of them) than the Summoner to maybe close to par to it (CTF-3D).


Neither one of them is a stellar chassis, and the main reason the Summoner edges it out in my book is because CXL is just that much better than IS XL or STD engines.


ECM will be useful for IS teams in CW to have a few guys bring it on a 70T mech, for solo/group queue I'd play the HBR instead, every single time.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 07 May 2015 - 02:00 AM.

[El Bandito]

Paigan, on 07 May 2015 - 01:01 AM, said:

You see: I provided an argument (too much equipment dependency to one component, thus unusual high vulnerability, thus unusual bad mech apart from the ECM)
You just say "no it isn't". Asking everyone is not a valid argument. In the middle ages, "everyone" was convinced the earth is flat. Real, logical arguments count, not "ask everyone". Btw. you meant "ask anyone", not everyone.

As long as no such arguments are provided, I consider you an idiot, sorry.

And you are the idiot who alone is convinced that the sun revolves around Earth, no matter how many people who will tell you otherwise. Having the weapons focused on one component, or one side is actually a boon, due to perfect convergence. In fact, the reason why the Dragon Slayer has been the best Victor is due to most of the weapons being located on one side. With the right amount of skill, a sword-and-board mech is flat out superior to that of spread component mech. That goes double if the S&B mech's hardpoints are mounted high, like the Hellbringer.

You joined the forums since 27 Dec 2014, meaning you have never experienced the evolution of MWO over these three years. Take you newbie view to K-Town. Adults are talking here.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 May 2015 - 02:13 AM.

[Gagis]

Blood Rose, on 07 May 2015 - 01:56 AM, said:

HBR Laser Vomit. Trust me, if you have not faced one of these yet then you do NOT want to.

Without ECM, Laser Vomit HBR is a slower and squishier Laser Vomit SCR. Strictly worse.

[aniviron]

El Bandito, on 06 May 2015 - 05:33 PM, said:

Yes I rank it lower than Summoner. At least that mech has better hitboxes along with Clan laser vomit.

3D alone was the King of Heavies. Cataphracts back then had to compete with only Catapults and Dragons anyway. Now PPCs suck, Gauss has charge, and CTF-0X doesn't have JJs for peek-a-boo shooting.

I do miss the early Beta days when CTF as a chassis wasn't as obsolete, and I could kick ass with my quad LL CTF-1X...

Yeah, the Summoner laser vomit with its whole maximum of four energy hardpoints. Very scary.

The CTF is pretty bad these days. The accidental hitbox tweak they gave it a few patches back did not help things at all. The other CTFs have always been punished for the 3D being too good at one thing over a year ago. Just like the Ravens and Highlanders.

[El Bandito]

Gagis, on 07 May 2015 - 02:00 AM, said:

Without ECM, Laser Vomit HBR is a slower and squishier Laser Vomit SCR. Strictly worse.

That just means Crow is too good. Which it is. BTW, you should never underestimate just how good Hellbie's high mount is.

aniviron, on 07 May 2015 - 02:01 AM, said:

Yeah, the Summoner laser vomit with its whole maximum of four energy hardpoints. Very scary.

The CTF is pretty bad these days. The accidental hitbox tweak they gave it a few patches back did not help things at all. The other CTFs have always been punished for the 3D being too good at one thing over a year ago. Just like the Ravens and Highlanders.

Gauss + CERML Timbie is a good configuration, and the Summoner can do the same thing. And unlike the Phract, the Gauss is actually located high.
As for the Phracts' hit-boxes, well, PGI is not gonna redesign the chassis so the Phract will likely remain the worst 70 tonner for quite a while, unfortunately.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 May 2015 - 02:14 AM.

[Ultimax]

Gagis, on 07 May 2015 - 02:00 AM, said:

Without ECM, Laser Vomit HBR is a slower and squishier Laser Vomit SCR. Strictly worse.

If you find your Laser Vomit HBR with it's 4 high energy mounts and extra 6 total tons of equipment "worse" than the Stormcrow, I think you probably need to re-evaluate your playstyle.

[Blood Rose]

Gagis, on 07 May 2015 - 02:00 AM, said:

Without ECM, Laser Vomit HBR is a slower and squishier Laser Vomit SCR. Strictly worse.

Not really, it can put out a filthy amount of firepower and still have enough room for a backup missile or ballistic. Trust me, I have faced them.