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Thoughts On The New Mechlab


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#61 Rushmoar

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 03:09 AM

View PostNavid A1, on 07 May 2015 - 08:29 PM, said:

Dragging items across the screen is not very convenient. would like to see an equip button on the item list.

Also dropping an omnipod in such a small box is not very good.

Posted Image

To avoid the long drag I think they will add a double click feature on the warehouse to add items quickly.

Edited by Rushmoar, 08 May 2015 - 03:09 AM.


#62 Meta 2013

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 03:50 AM

Hello All,

First off thanks for at least trying to address all the simple basics tools you left out originally.

That Said, Come on, really, after all this time, all the B!@#$%ing you still cannot put all the info(load out) for a mech on one screen. REALLY?

What do I mean, ok the select mech screen, 18 months ago you introduced the screen and let us select and change ALL modules, 3 weeks later you took that way and made it consumables only ... why?? who the F@#% knows. But it was the only tool that made module hunting easy, so of course you got rid of it.

Fine you redo the lab, first try out the gate... and that is still not there? ITS ALREADY BEEN CODED!!!!! Its what we asked for!!!!! yet its not there ??????????

Ok what's important to see about a mech ... I have yet to see a poll on what users want to see. For instance myself, the silly little graphs about acceleration deceleration, pitch and yaw, useful to some I am sure it is, to me not really. Be nice to have that info buried and available if I ever want to see it, but not up front taking up space where really useful info should Be. IE heat info,DPS info, you know stuff we actually want to see!

Cockpit items, you just made that even more painful that it was, Now you have given us no way to see what's loaded other than clicking on.. selecting...waiting for save then go look at EACH mech one by one painfully in the lab to see what's on it.

Solution: strip them all now while we can and just give up using and buying cockpit items. Well done guys.

What part of making it easier to use have you all somehow Glazed over. Not to beat a dead horse to freakin death, but we TOLD YOU THIS WHEN UI 2.0 WAS in BETA. We said make it easier to see modules and cockpit items like the OLD UI had. We Told you then it was a step backwards.

So here we are year and half into the New UI, and instead of few tweaks to make things easier, you gotta justify your pay checks and screw it all up.

Look change the mech selection screen so we can modify all modules, it would be really nice if we could grab and change cockpit items as well. That alone would be such a huge improvement. At least make sure all the info is there to see and not make us need 10 more bloody clicks and 4 saves to see cockpit item.

Second, the mech lab view was fine, don't take that way. All we asked for was a few filters...like IS and Clan, so instead you took that view away?? instead of screwing with everything else, why not simply let the Mech details button, engage the new Lab interface to make the mech changes? why put us through all the pain of the clunky changes adding more time to accomplish even the simplest of tasks? while you have certainly taken some bold steps forwards in a few areas, you took several backwards in others... why not skip taking steps backwards? Just implement the changes that are for the better, you will still get paid.

When you introduced UI 2.0 people where out right just stunned in at how you took such a simple thing and screwed it up, here we are again, stunned at how you took such simple thing, and screwed it up.

Ok honestly who there actually thought you made it easier to see what cockpit items are on a mech and change them? Or at least hunt down certain cockpit items? Who on the Development Team actually thought they enhanced that? Because seriously, time to trim the FAT.

Everyone I have ever dealt with at PGI has always seemed to be intelligent, and sensible. Yet here we are. Now you're in Canada, so don't know, how do you all vet this stuff? You go to the local Zoo, grab a few monkeys, if the monkey clicks on yes you publish? Cause there is No commonsense or KISS factor applied when you all do anything with the UI ,its almost like some silly game with you people, ok you want this fine here it is..but the trade off is now you gotta click 40 times to do this thing that used to be 2 clicks. Its like your punishing us for asking you to fix things.

How does this stuff make it through The Vetting process? How dos some of this crap make it past the goofy Test? I know you have people who play the game, so how is it they see the changes and go yep 4 times harder to see what's on a mech, Golden! good to go!

KISS Factor, learn it, employ it, live it.


Ok now you all think this is ranting... a little sure, but here is where the frustration comes from, This is an actual story.

Gotta good friend that has dropped with us for better part of 2 years now, he isn't stupid, but a bit lazy when it comes to learning the interface and reading the details on the website. Also understand he has bought every package from phoenix on up.

Ok so this week he is grinding C-bills, and he wants to use mechs with the 30% cbill boost. Now to choose those mechs he clicks on the hero tab. That's what he thought was the only mechs with a c-bill boost. So we are dropping, and he sorta tells me what his plan has been all week, and we are talkin over what we are going to bring to drop with, and I mention one of the clan primes, and he goes... yeah would like to but gotta grind the c bills, need that extra 30%, I say this has that,he says no it doesn't show up on the hero tab, I said no it doesn't but its still a 30% boost, and then tell him it shows up under the champion tab, he said but champion mechs are 10% exp only. I said well yes that's true for some champion mechs, but not all, because some are not really champion mechs, they just show up under that tab for some unknown reason. So at this point the confusion sets in, he said how do I know the difference? I said well if it was a trail mech, then it doesn't get a c-bill bonus, or if it was gifted mech. But if it is a prime of a package you bought it does. He goes so isn't that a hero mech then, I said no its not a hero, and is not a champion, but well its pgi so break out your decoder ring. What a happy man he was to know he had all them extra mechs to choose from for a c-bill bonus. He is older, and so I'm sure next week I'll have to remind him again and go over all the rules, sadly I shouldn't have to, it should be obvious when he clicks on the mech, or picks a sorting tab.

That's what is so frustrating. How PGI can just spew this stuff out and never once vet the simple question did we make it easier, and give more info or as a minimum what everyone has asked for, without making it more complex, and harder to learn an look for.

Quirks - Just, ....... one of the most important things one needs to see when out-fitting a mech. a check box? Also some quirks like armor and others that are non weapon related, ok make those, a check box, so the window isn't excessive.

Lastly where is my Ready mechs tab, and check boxes so I can view just mechs I want to work with and have ready to drop when grinding? Yes really another Old UI feature we begged you to bring back since the first Day of UI 2.0 beta testing.

Edited by Meta 2013, 08 May 2015 - 04:02 AM.


#63 Johnny Z

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 06:19 AM

Im not sure but with my resolution I have no store option when in expanded mechbay view. It drops down, but goes back up instantly. I have to use the column view.

#64 DevilCrayon

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 08:54 AM

View PostIgor Kozyrev, on 07 May 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

Little things: when you drag and drop weapons/equipment/etc you have to aim at empty slots. It would be more intuitive if you'd be able to drag'n'drop anywhere on the component.

Also would be nice to have ability to doubleclick on weapon/equipment so it automatically place itself in the hardpoint. Order of hardpoints/components should be default - hd/ct/rt/lt/ra/la/rl/ll



Yes! This, please, very much. Also, dragging heatsinks into the engine slots is pretty tedious. At least let us drop it anywhere on the engine or even better anywhere in the CT. Best would be to have a double-click from the warehouse add it to the currently selected component, though.

#65 BerserX

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 09:13 AM

View PostJack Shayu Walker, on 07 May 2015 - 08:21 PM, said:

I'm inclined to agree with BerserX I want the weapon images back if possible. With the new mechlab we have so much sorting power that it seems un-necessary to make the weapon icons in the list so small. If you make the items in the list larger you can make the text more readable and you may be able to fit in a smaller version of the weapon picture icons. from the current mechlab.

Posted Image


Considering the sorting features we have, and Jack Shayu Walker's picture, could we add a "What Fits This Component" button? :D Okay, that's a mix of sarcasm, amusement, and some seriousness.

I am a bit confused by all the red strikethrough circles, shown along with the red numbers (which are obviously for slot/tonnage restrictions). What is the deal with all the different icons? I'm afraid that the pursuit of efficiency may be resulting in clutter and eyesore.

Kudos on the awesome sorting tabs though! Looking forward to using those in-game.

#66 Sniper09121986

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 11:45 AM

View PostIgor Kozyrev, on 07 May 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

Also would be nice to have ability to doubleclick on weapon/equipment so it automatically place itself in the hardpoint. Order of hardpoints/components should be default - hd/ct/rt/lt/ra/la/rl/ll

That would be good for "Expanded warehouse layout" whatever it actually means. As for "Column" layout I was surprised that components do not install in a selected location (displayed below "Home" button) on double-click as it is currently (omnipods may be installed in their own location straight away of course). Please implement that.
Also the current mech selection filters are good, but can you pretty please add a "Favourites" page? I really liked the four quick slots in the old UI, so I could select some mechs I was leveling at the moment, but naturally it does not need to be restricted to four mechs at a time. It would also be a huge, HUEG benefit in CW for quick altering of the drop deck for offense/defense or a peculiar map in those 60 seconds between map selection and touchdown. I know I have quite a stable with Phoenix+Sabre+all the Clan packs and then some, so it is an issue for me.
And how about warhorn playback in the interface, especially BEFORE we pay for them? Colours and patterns are visible beforehahd, so that we actually see what we get. Not so much with the warhorns, and not everyone knows the address of that SoundCloud page or likes to jump there each and every time.

#67 Onesiphorus

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 12:17 PM

This is miles better than before, so my first suggestion is to throw out UI 2.0 and start over, because it needed to be light years better. I love the gameplay, the models, the variety, and the customization. I love big stompy robots. The UI has stopped me from playing for more than a couple of games a week. I own 199 mechs, do you think I ever want to hunt for a module or engine? Okay, so engines I could grind away to get, but modules, seriously. *(Off topic, a blueprint system would have done this game a miracle. Buy a blueprint, use scrapped mechs and cbills to make the weapon/equipment. There is a missed opportunity.) It is sloppy, slow, and confusing to new comers, and as a programmer, I am betting the dev team cannot be proud of how it turned out. There is one primary goal for the mechlab, and that is to quickly and efficiently customize your mech for battle. If this UI cannot do that, get rid of it. Everything else is added features, if and only if they do not compromise its purpose. It took Microsoft the loss of over half it's internet explorer users (keeping in mind that most government employees are forced to use it) before they finally got rid of what was hurting them. But seeing as this may never happen, and the first thing new players experience is this atrocity, here are the items that I think need looking at to improve it:

Select Mech:
-clicking the toggle should choose only that type instead of turning it off. Default is all on, but once one is toggled the first time then all but that are off. Subsequent toggles would add to the list.
-Be able to load/unload modules and cockpit items from this screen.
-More sort options, such as in order from tonnage (not weight class), and chassis should say that it is alphabetical.
-A detailed list view
Loadout:
-move slots next to warehouse (i know many have already stated) This choice is second to creating a layout where all slots are visible next to their component on the mech. Having to click to see what else you have placed on the mech is ridiculous.
-moving the slots means moving the mech stats. If you adjust the enlarged mech stats so that everything from toggles up are shifted on the left, then it will fit.
-These, of course, mean shifting the mech to the left side of the screen.
-dragging and dropping. I shouldn't even have to open up the component to drag and drop. Add a number of slots indicator on each panel (Right Arm (2/4)) indicating open and dynamic.
-strip modules and strip cockpit items buttons
-strip all mechs button, with warning and popup to choose equipment/armor/modules/cockpit
-performance improvement option. Removes the fully rendered 3D model. I am pretty sure this is the reason that UI 2.0 sucks so bad anyway. So many resources wasted to do this.
Weapons Group:
Completely unnecessary, add a toggle button to mechlab
Camo:
I assume nothing has been done to this. It needs so much overhaul, I can't remember the last time I bothered with it.
Cockpit:
Desperately needs an owned toggle.


tl/dr: i don't encourage lazy

#68 blackcatf

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 12:39 PM

View PostIgor Kozyrev, on 07 May 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

Little things: when you drag and drop weapons/equipment/etc you have to aim at empty slots. It would be more intuitive if you'd be able to drag'n'drop anywhere on the component.

Yes! This threw me off the first time I tried it..."Why won't the second SRM-6 stick in my right torso?" I asked myself before trying to put an LRM-5 in and seeing them start swapping places. Take another look at Smurfy's and how that drag'n'drop works for an example of the difference.

Overall, pretty happy with the layout and functionality. From what I saw last night, if the equipment loading were drag'n'drop instead of drag'n'swap and the 'mech select screen was more of a grid like the old 'mech select screen, I'd be pretty content with the 'mech bay.

View PostXeren KelDar, on 07 May 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

More lists for more clicks is bad design. This was said for UI 2.0 when it first launched for testing as a click fest. Is "Select Mech" considered part of the Mechlab for this test?

Mechlab does not retain choice when switching location. If I am loading LRM ammo in different locations I must switch to the ammo tab every time I move locations. TOO MANY CLICKS.

Dragging a component into a location and dropping on a previous component switches them. For example, dropping a DHS into the LT removed the TC1 because I dropped it on the same slot.

No "Max Armor" button? If it's there I didn't find it. A "max armor" button would be nice.

<o

Overall, thanks for the work you've put into this, it seems like mostly a step toward more goodness.

#69 Sky Hawk

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 02:18 PM

Can you explanine me, why need the MechLab a much higher resolution, as the game itself ???

If (in my low spec PC,) I choose "high enough" resolution, to use your "full Mech details view" , my MechLab-FPS goes under 10...

If you really can't make a simple-style new MechLab (so, one, with a much lower resolution, as that in the PTS) .. I will rather use the present one in live-server... Because, least that reaches almost 16 FPS (if it has a good day)...

#70 Alex Gamov

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 12:25 PM

1. Check Filters for Arm Omnipods.
#1 Right Arm and Right Torso Omnipods
Posted Image
#2 Left Arm Omnipod Filter
Posted Image

2. No Quick Engine Selection for selected 'mech
Type: Visual
Choose any IS 'mech after Clan 'Mech
http://s12.postimg.o...015_05_09_5.jpg

3. Wrong Filters for Tab WEAPONS
Type:Visual
For a Clan 'Mech screen will be incorrect if for previous IS 'Mech tab ENGINES was active during customization.
http://s30.postimg.o...015_05_09_4.jpg

#71 Commissar Aku

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 01:18 PM

Is no one going to point out that you can no longer see the hard points you are manipulating? Or that we still don't have highlighted hit boxes? I thought they were going to make it more useful not more complicated. The buttons are smaller and harder to read, the font they choose for this game is ****** and hard for me to read when they make it so small. The filters aren't really useful, like not at all, I mean if there was a bigger weapon selection or more than one type of missile, gauss, or machine gun maybe it would be useful, but there isn't so what is the point? There isn't a good engine filter.

My biggest beefs here are the tiny slots and labels, and no hit boxes, and maybe the fact that they did not make it easier to use in any sense of the word. So why change it, if they aren't going to make it work better, be easier to use, or be a better tool of any kind.

#72 danneskold

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 03:09 PM

I think it would be cool to save loadouts as presets too

#73 IceHawk00

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 10:00 PM

Maybe I am just old fashioned, but I would prefer a mechlab setup similar to Smurfy's... Aside from that...

I would like to see an option to allow us to either show our mechs as they are now, or in the list form of mech selection in the mechlab being tested now. I would much rather select the mech I was to play or modify from a location that I can quickly remember vs having to go through a list of all the mechs available in the game.

I saw the option to quickly categorize the list, but it's far faster for me to scroll to a location of all my mechs and click once, rather than make multiple selections before I find the one I want.

That said, when you hold your cursor over a mech listed, the description should list that mech's modules xp, and ammo count. This would make it far easier to find your stuff.

Barring the smurfy's style mechlab, it would be nice to click on the mech itself that is displayed on screen and have that corresponding piece become the active body part shown for modification. Wouldn't be a bad idea to list structural HP in the selected area too.

#74 Hawk819

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 10:46 PM

I'd like to know what happened to the `Mech Details tab. I hope they didn't remove it.

#75 Garagano

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 12:55 AM

Feature Request - Functionality

- right click on component to remove it from the mech (similar to the drag&drop function but without the mouse movement.)
- right click on component to add it on the mech

#76 Arctur

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 01:47 AM

Ok, my suggestions:
1. Need more filters in cockpit items menue and module menue! See pics above!

2. Need direct way to move module (or better to say - any item - weapon, cocpit thing, engine etc.) from one mech to another. Above - pic about modules. But in "mech loadout" sould be the same - i must to see not only, to say, engines in my warehouse, but installed in mechs too! And i sould have ability to drop engine direct form mech to mech.

3. Could be fine in mech list make filter "favorite" or something like that - so, i could mark any mechs like "favorite" and with that filter see only its. I have a lot of mechs, very big list, but play may be 7-8 last month, no need to see others....

Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by Arctur, 11 May 2015 - 02:20 AM.


#77 K19

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 09:56 AM

lot bab. A hint of who does the same as you. Use the best of the Mech Lab 1 with the best 2 and not invent because only worsen. The layout of the mech lab and 2 very smooth and clean, the images showing Version 3 brings back mech labs of old games. But this in your hand or want to have more players have nothing. and another note does not copy misconceptions of other games but their best ideas for game performance and vehicles.

#78 MasterC

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 11:47 AM

Thank you PGI for listening and giving us what we wanted. The Smurfy-style mechlab is a huge improvement. And I greatly appreciate that you replaced the weapon, equipment and engine thumbnails with a simple list. It's far easier to work with. Good job!

#79 Havyek

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 01:48 PM

Why does the new UI not show the 'Mech's quirks in the MechLab? There should be no reason to need to exit the Mechlab, write down what the quirks are for the 'Mech, then enter the Mechlab again. Everything should be readily available at the same screen.

#80 BladeXXL

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 02:31 PM

View PostHavyek, on 12 May 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

Why does the new UI not show the 'Mech's quirks in the MechLab? There should be no reason to need to exit the Mechlab, write down what the quirks are for the 'Mech, then enter the Mechlab again. Everything should be readily available at the same screen.


Just click on this checkbox on top-left of the "mech stats" window in mechlab and enjoy your quirks





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