244 replies to this topic

[SgtMagor]

still think the Atlas Side torsos are like glass, that Ac or gauss rifle is usually the first thing to get blown up on an Atlas.

[Random Carnage]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 July 2015 - 02:31 AM, said:

The Dire Pilot must have been good. I have killed a few of the Dires you described.

I'm now a converted Dire pilot, and I eat any Atlas I meet unless already half dead. On an even fight, I've never met an Atlas yet that could out gun me. One alpha from an Atlas is not enough to take me out, and the amount of dps I can put down range while they're recharging will core a full health Atlas.

[Sarlic]

SgtMagor, on 12 July 2015 - 02:56 AM, said:

still think the Atlas Side torsos are like glass, that Ac or gauss rifle is usually the first thing to get blown up on an Atlas.

Gauss rifle is normal. It only has 15 hp. If your back is stripped your rifle is already disabled. Or a critical hit on your ST and your rifle will pop.

Edited by Sarlic, 12 July 2015 - 03:02 AM.

[Random Carnage]

Just slow down the pace of the game. These insanely fast speeds, acceleration and deceleration curves and full speed turning circles are killing the game and has turned MW into just another twitch FPS. Make movement physics more realistic across all mechs and the rest will take care of itself.

[El Bandito]

Random Carnage, on 12 July 2015 - 03:08 AM, said:

Just slow down the pace of the game. These insanely fast speeds, acceleration and deceleration curves and full speed turning circles are killing the game and has turned MW into just another twitch FPS. Make movement physics more realistic across all mechs and the rest will take care of itself.

Yep. Globally slow down mech speed and make the gravity 1x, instead of 3x we have right now.

Also, do not let engine size dictate turn and twist speed. Let it only decide move speed.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 July 2015 - 03:47 AM.

[Sarlic]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 July 2015 - 02:31 AM, said:

The Dire Pilot must have been good. I have killed a few of the Dires you described.

There are certainly good Direwolf pilots out there. But also old bitter vets who keep getting stuck in the meta(?) muddy pool over and over again who just need one button to think all magic is happening.

Edited by Sarlic, 12 July 2015 - 04:15 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

El Bandito, on 12 July 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

Yep. Globally slow down mech speed.

Or just remove Speed Tweak.
(And the rest of the stupid skill system, while we're at it)

[Bishop Steiner]

Sarlic, on 12 July 2015 - 04:14 AM, said:

There are certainly good Direwolf pilots out there. But also old bitter vets who keep getting stuck in the meta over and over again who just need one button to think all magic is happening.

Didn't change the fact that unless there pilot is incompetent, unlucky or ambushed (or has a really crappy build) that a1v1 between a fresh Dire and Atlas, will almost certainly be won by the Fire, every time.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

While I agree the Atlas could use more armor, in a 1 v 1 situation against a Dire, if the Dire has range and line of sight he will win, if the Atlas gets the jump on the Dire close range and shields himself with his arms skillfully, the Atlas will win, assuming he has a good brawling build ( ac20, srm6's ).

[Cptn Goodvibes Pig of Steel]

The value of armour is rubbish. Not worth the tonnage. In this game, carrying a larger engine for greater mobility or heavier weapons for greater firepower is a significantly better investment. Yes, I know the values are double that stated in Battletech lore, but it still ain't near enough. Traditionally, armoured combat has been based upon a careful balance of firepower, mobility and protection. To my mind, a 100 tonne mech should really be a hell of lot more harder to kill than its lighter brethren, Otherwise, they'd be no real point to building assault mechs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alwrath, on 12 July 2015 - 04:22 AM, said:

While I agree the Atlas could use more armor, in a 1 v 1 situation against a Dire, if the Dire has range and line of sight he will win, if the Atlas gets the jump on the Dire close range and shields himself with his arms skillfully, the Atlas will win, assuming he has a good brawling build ( ac20, srm6's ).

Atlas arms are a bad joke for shield and why most of my Atlases run super reduced armor. Because any good shot has no problem missing those little twigs. Heck I almost never lose an arm, without the torso it's attached to going first. And as a Medium Jock, I'm a twist and shout machine. Yo don't survive in Centurions if you aren't.

If we were talking the Banshee,s BLR, or almost anything else, I would agree, but Atlases have minimal shield value.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 July 2015 - 05:25 AM.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 July 2015 - 05:24 AM, said:

Atlas arms are a bad joke for shield and why most of my Atlases run super reduced armor

In a brawling situation, you can easily torso twist an alpha from a Dire Wolf onto your arm. At range it wont always work, but it depends on your location/firing angle/your skill etc. Dont run reduced armor, those arm shields are one of the few advantages of the Chassis you have.

[Boulangerie]

Yep, I stayed off in Centurion and learned torso twisting there. It is a valuable skill but I agree that is merely to mitigate the time until you lose your torso, not to prevent it from happening.

As far as going light on armor for more mobility. .. that's not possible with an atlas. They don't have enough of an upside for losing armor for higher engine size or more weapons due to hard point locations and limitations to mobility in general. This wouldn't be a problem if they really felt as tanky as they should.

To be clear here. I'm not saying an atlas should be able to face tank at medium or long range. I like their brawling niche. I do think that they are not able to achieve their full potential at their respective role compared to other assaults.

[Khobai]

Quote

In a brawling situation, you can easily torso twist an alpha from a Dire Wolf onto your arm.

Except a good dire wolf player wont alpha into your arm. At best, theyll only fire some of their weapons into your arm. then when you torso twist back around theyll fire the rest of their weapons into your torso. and even half the firepower of a direwolf is about equal to the full firepower of an atlas...

The usefulness of torso twisting on Atlases is greatly exaggerated. Yes it helps a little but it doesnt help nearly as much as most people claim. Torso twisting is much more useful on smaller mechs because their smaller hitboxes make it very easy to disperse damage across multiple locations. But the Atlas gets its side torsos blown out extremely fast whether it torso twists or not.

Ultimately the Atlas still needs more armor on its side torsos so it doesnt lose its firepower as quickly.

Edited by Khobai, 12 July 2015 - 08:15 AM.

[ManDaisy]

Not to mention its got a big wonking head that makes the CT targetable at all angles whether you torso twist or not.

[Sir Wulfrick]

Draughluin, on 12 July 2015 - 05:08 AM, said:

The value of armour is rubbish. Not worth the tonnage. In this game, carrying a larger engine for greater mobility or heavier weapons for greater firepower is a significantly better investment. Yes, I know the values are double that stated in Battletech lore, but it still ain't near enough. Traditionally, armoured combat has been based upon a careful balance of firepower, mobility and protection. To my mind, a 100 tonne mech should really be a hell of lot more harder to kill than its lighter brethren, Otherwise, they'd be no real point to building assault mechs.

This. While I hesitate to use a comparison with modern warfare (Battletech and all that...) I like to compare the Atlas with a modern British Challenger 2 tank. A story, verified, from Iraq describes a Challenger 2 being ambushed at short range by a squad of insurgents who had an apparently limitless supply of RPG's. I've no idea what happened to the tanks infantry support, but it was eventually disabled after absorbing no fewer than 74 RPGs shot at it. I say disabled, as the crew just sat there until they were rescued. The armour of the tank was never penetrated even by that many RPG's.

The point of the story is that immense protection should be a viable and worthy element to the game, as valuable as immense firepower (Direwolf) or superb agility (Timberwolf). As Draughluin rightly pointed out at present this simply is not the case. In terms of the Atlas, while it does not have vast firepower it was designed to be a nearly impenetrable walking wall of armour. At present it doesn't even have the highest armour values any more! It needs to be made significantly more 'tanky'.

[Bloodweaver]

Sir Wulfrick, on 12 July 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

The point of the story is that immense protection should be a viable and worthy element to the game, as valuable as immense firepower (Direwolf) or superb agility (Timberwolf). As Draughluin rightly pointed out at present this simply is not the case.

You can thank PPFLD for that. TT mechanics made lowering your armor values a viable choice for freeing up tonnage that could go towards either guns, speed, or heat efficiency. This isn't the case in MWO because PPFLD makes every singly point of armor valuable.

[Khobai]

Quote

You can thank PPFLD for that. TT mechanics made lowering your armor values a viable choice for freeing up tonnage that could go towards either guns, speed, or heat efficiency. This isn't the case in MWO because PPFLD makes every singly point of armor valuable.

its more the precise aiming that screws things ups.

in tabletop arms and legs absorb 50% of the hits. but in MWO you can aim for peoples torsos. So half their armor is meaningless.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Want Atlas to be Bad Ass Atlas, not a fat boy to beat?
Lobby more for Stock 3025 mode.
That the only environment where Atlas actually is feared and have "ohh sh/it factor".

But yeah, he could use some armor quirks, after all Highlander got +29 CT.

[Bloodweaver]

Khobai, on 12 July 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

its more the precise aiming that screws things ups.

in tabletop arms and legs absorb 50% of the hits. but in MWO you can aim for peoples torsos. So half their armor is meaningless.

Which is what PPFLD enables.

PP = pinpoint. I.e., all weapons hit the indicated spot without any cone-of-fire mechanics.

FL = front-loaded. I.e., all weapons do full damage at once.

In MWO, SRMs and (Inner Sphere) LRMs = front-loaded, but not pinpoint, damage. Their damage is dealt instantly, but it's also spread over an area. Lasers = pinpoint, but not front-loaded, damage - meaning they spread over time, but not at any one particular moment. Their damage is concentrated, but it's also spread over time.

The only reason we have the problem you mentioned in MWO, whereas we don't have it in TT, is due to PPFLD. That's why arms and legs don't absorb hits in MWO while they do in TT.

Edited by Bloodweaver, 12 July 2015 - 09:03 PM.