244 replies to this topic

[The Mechromancer]

In the category of 100-tonners, the Atlas is just so under-gunned compared to the KC and DW. Even Banshees have substantially more firepower for a barely noticeable armor difference, and better hit boxes.

The thing is supposed to be a walking fortress right?

PGI plz.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Yes. It already has decent punch, make it a real threat by making it durable as hell.
People should say "oh ****" when they see an Atlas, like when they see a DWF

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 09 May 2015 - 11:25 AM.

[That Dawg]

Most IS mechs are under........everything compared to clan,I mean come on...our lasers weigh less, and shoot further? Quirks only go so far.
start buying clan now, cause when the next wave of mechs are released?
clan takes second place, and.......where do IS mechs wind up at?
its the design of the game, keep up, or get rolled

[Mcgral18]

That Dawg, on 09 May 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

Most IS mechs are under........everything compared to clan,I mean come on...our lasers weigh less, and shoot further? Quirks only go so far.
start buying clan now, cause when the next wave of mechs are released?
clan takes second place, and.......where do IS mechs wind up at?
its the design of the game, keep up, or get rolled

Correction, two robots.


Maybe three, but only two of those have few if no downsides, and are only marginally unoptimised. Most Clams are pretty poor, or outright mediocre.

[Xetelian]

AS7 needs:
More structure to protect the AC20 which gets taken out very easily.
More armor to hold that face time required for AC 20s and SRMs
Energy heat gen quirks, AC20 is hot paired with LPL is really hot and SRMs are pretty hot too.
Higher ballistic cooldown quirk since it usually brings only 1
+10% Reverse speed because it backs out of trouble extremely slowly
+5% Speed because the HGN got it.

[Yokaiko]

Big armor, and then AC20 and SRM quirks, big ones.

It can't carry the ammo AND be very agile, hence why most comp D-DC builds are all engine, but are only rocking three tons for both the AC and missiles. It has serious issues with facetime under fire.

Zeus does this well, they need to go the same route with Atlas, while it CAN take a DWF under the right conditions, it doesn't have the staying power or firepower to be a threat over the course of a game.

[That Dawg]

Mcgral18, on 09 May 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

Most Clams are pretty poor, or outright mediocre.

Server stats disagree
Even factoring in trials and the mediocre mechs, Clan® mechs win more

Quirks and quirks alone are what allowed IS mechs to be marginally competitive.
sorry, I know the truth hurts, I have half a dozen I can't bring myself to sell, but never run them anymore.

[Koniks]

I like the direction they went in varying mechs' armor. I'd prefer if there was even more variety. Especially with using negative quirks to be well under the cap for their tonnage more often the way the HBR is stock or how they quirked the SCR-P's head.

We could use a range of viable mechs from glass cannon to tank in each class. This would obviously require some weapon balancing changes.

The Atlases' biggest problems are their hardpoint locations and combinations which confine it to mostly close-range loadouts, its inferior agility, bad hitboxes, and slow speed which lead to eating a lot of damage before getting into the fight.

It's an ambush mech and not even that great at it anymore.

Edited by Mizeur, 09 May 2015 - 12:37 PM.

[Void Angel]

I'd like the Atlas to work out more - by which I mean making its arms bigger. Currently it's too hard to shield with the Atlas's arms, which contributes a lot to its perceived lack of durability. I can still do well with it, but I do feel that it's fallen slightly behind. Some small buffs are probably in order.

That Dawg, on 09 May 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

Most IS mechs are under........everything compared to clan,I mean come on...our lasers weigh less, and shoot further? Quirks only go so far.
start buying clan now, cause when the next wave of mechs are released?
clan takes second place, and.......where do IS mechs wind up at?
its the design of the game, keep up, or get rolled

But what about the magical unicorn fairies who told me that the Inner Sphere will soon get magical wands of teleportation to get close to Clan 'mechs? The Inner Sphere's weapons are lots cooler, particularly at close range, so that'll swing the balance back in their favor! Then the Inner Sphere will all get Sailor Moon camo patterns and glitter paints, while the Clanners will all be sad pandas.

See? I can make things up, and selectively cite facts while ignoring most of the information available, too. I'm just more creative than you are.

In reality, the design is that Inner Sphere and Clan 'mechs be balanced against each other with each having different strengths - you know, how it actually is. Go look at the final score in the Battle for Tukayyid.

Edited by Void Angel, 09 May 2015 - 12:44 PM.

[Mirkk Defwode]

Mizeur, on 09 May 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

I like the direction they went in varying mechs' armor. I'd prefer if there was even more variety. Especially with using negative quirks to be well under the cap for their tonnage more often the way the HBR is stock or how they quirked the SCR-P's head.

We could use a range of viable mechs from glass cannon to tank in each class. This would obviously require some weapon balancing changes.

The Atlases' biggest problems are their hardpoint locations and combinations which confine it to mostly close-range loadouts, its inferior agility, bad hitboxes, and slow speed which lead to eating a lot of damage before getting into the fight.

It's an ambush mech and not even that great at it anymore.

I use mine as a skirmisher, I know it sounds crazy, but switching from short range to medium-long range weaponry allows you to sorta fight from cover and can reasonably pack a punch. I won't do a crap done of damage with it but it allows me to engage how I choose and generally protect some of the other support mechs.

[Koniks]

Mixed loadouts are less useful than purpose-built loadouts. Both of which are inferior to loadouts that can alpha with significant damage from close-range to their optimal range, like Clan laser vomit or the old jumpshooting builds.

The DDC with 2 UAC5s instead of the AC20 is the closest thing. But 2 UAC5s are pretty poor for mid-range compared to everything else.

Edited by Mizeur, 09 May 2015 - 12:51 PM.

[stjobe]

So, to combat the power creep we ... power creep some more?

Wouldn't it be wiser to stop the power creep, reign in some of the worst offenders a bit, and try to get at least a semblance of balance?

The Atlas is only "bad" because 'mechs that have arrived later have had an extra hard point here, some extra agility there, a few quirks, a couple of modules, and so on and so forth. Power creep.

Atlas was king of the assaults - when it was the only one we had, and after the Awesome (poor thing, never got a fair break). But even as our third assault arrived (the Stalker), the Atlas lost its top-of-the-heap crown. And then, in quick succession: The poptart kings Highlander and Victor; the Battlemaster (wub wub!), the Banshee, the King Crab (hello dual AC/20), and now the latest, the Zeus. All outshine the Atlas in most regards.

It reminds me of the fact that my Commandos only have four hard points while most every other light has more - some, like the FS9, twice as many.

Power creep.

[CrushLibs]

you do realize the atlas gets internal quirks


ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LT): 11.00 ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RT): 11.00 ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LA): 9.00 ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RA): 9.00 AC/20 VELOCITY: 5.00 % BALLISTIC VELOCITY: 5.00 % LASER DURATION: -7.50 % MISSILE COOLDOWN: 7.50 %

Edited by CrushLibs, 09 May 2015 - 01:34 PM.

[The Mechromancer]

stjobe, on 09 May 2015 - 12:55 PM, said:

So, to combat the power creep we ... power creep some more?

Wouldn't it be wiser to stop the power creep, reign in some of the worst offenders a bit, and try to get at least a semblance of balance?

The Atlas is only "bad" because 'mechs that have arrived later have had an extra hard point here, some extra agility there, a few quirks, a couple of modules, and so on and so forth. Power creep.

Atlas was king of the assaults - when it was the only one we had, and after the Awesome (poor thing, never got a fair break). But even as our third assault arrived (the Stalker), the Atlas lost its top-of-the-heap crown. And then, in quick succession: The poptart kings Highlander and Victor; the Battlemaster (wub wub!), the Banshee, the King Crab (hello dual AC/20), and now the latest, the Zeus. All outshine the Atlas in most regards.

It reminds me of the fact that my Commandos only have four hard points while most every other light has more - some, like the FS9, twice as many.

Power creep.

you assume that the power creep will be reversed. I do not think it will,

the DWF and KC will never be nerfed so hard that they are in atlas territory, and you cannot simply remove hardpoints because that would break stock loadouts.

old mechs have been shafted yes, and they only way to fix them is to bring them up to standard, and adjust from there,

nobody is going to buy ($$$) a mech with a page of negative quirks on it.

Edited by The Mechromancer, 09 May 2015 - 04:20 PM.

[100 Tonne]

I have made/commented in many thread about this. The Atlas NEEDS more armour on the front and sides torsos. It would also be nice to have that top missile spot 20 instead of 10.

[Sir Wulfrick]

As I've said many times before, the Atlas does indeed need additional protection. It does not require any more weapons quirks.

It's severely hard-point deficient for a mech of its tonnage and to keep things in the spirit of the original designs I think that the Atlas should be made what it always has been: the "tankiest" mech in Battletech. It ought to receive +15% armour quirks to all three torso sections, with a minimum 15-points on the rear torsos, an extra 10% internals on all three torsos and the arms and +25% head armour. The legs are fine as-is.

The thing doesn't have ECM apart from the DDC, has horrifically low-slung arm weapons, a nearly-useless CT energy hard point on the D model and a maximum of two ballistic hard points in the same torso section. It's also (I think) the tallest mech in the game and is relatively slow even with a gigantic 350 standard engine.

The -D-DC and -S are MAYBE tier-3 mechs. The D, K, RS and BH are at best barely viable tier-4 mechs.

To balance out the above it should be made very, very difficult to kill.

Edited by Sir Wulfrick, 09 May 2015 - 05:22 PM.

[Jess Hazen]

I hate the quirks system except for a few durability quirks on weak geometrically designed chassis's. Weapon quirks are the worst except for the odd chassis' that really lacks the hard points.

Remember the heaviest of mechs have benefited the most from the doubling of armour pgi implemented years ago. Lights/Meds need the most quirking imo.

[Mar-X-maN]

Xetelian, on 09 May 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

AS7 needs:
More structure to protect the AC20 which gets taken out very easily.
More armor to hold that face time required for AC 20s and SRMs
Energy heat gen quirks, AC20 is hot paired with LPL is really hot and SRMs are pretty hot too.
Higher ballistic cooldown quirk since it usually brings only 1
+10% Reverse speed because it backs out of trouble extremely slowly
+5% Speed because the HGN got it.

Your fault for going all close range brawler and not bringing an XL engine. I f the Atlas should get buffs they should be ballistics, laser, missiles but not specific to AC20 or SRMS. Armor I might agree on though. Though I do ok with my XL engine.

[Jess Hazen]

Heat/weapon buffs should not be messed with locally. Weapons need ONLY be balanced globally.

[Xetelian]

Mar X maN, on 09 May 2015 - 05:47 PM, said:

Your fault for going all close range brawler and not bringing an XL engine. I f the Atlas should get buffs they should be ballistics, laser, missiles but not specific to AC20 or SRMS. Armor I might agree on though. Though I do ok with my XL engine.

I'm of the opinion that putting an XL in an Atlas is wrong. A STD 300 can net you 50-60 point alpha easy and goes fast enough.