407 replies to this topic

[Adamski]

UberStuka, on 11 May 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

this is nothing more than a ploy to get the clans out of their home bases. clans are getting reckd right now.

Under populated factions used to receive CBill and LP earnings bonuses, but PGI turned them all off for the Tukayyid event.

Now PGI is nerfing drop deck tonnages across the board to attempt the same thing, but instead pissing off any players that know how to balance population or understand MWO gameplay at all.

[Moldur]

As long as devs are keeping their ear to the ground, changes to CW balance every now and again are ok. Nothing of value is lost if something is changed for a short period of time while the effects of the changes are observed.

If something goes terribly wrong because of this, they'll change it back, or make other adjustments (lets hope) seeing as to how they changed it based off (most likely) the input of vocal forum goers, as well as in-game observation.

I'd say the old adage "Be careful what you wish for" or even "the squeeky wheel gets the grease" is applicable here. Part of me feels that 5% of the population can ruin it for the other 95% if they whine a lot.

Anyways, thanks PGI. I wasn't complaining about IS drop tonnage, but certainly won't say anything bad about it getting reduced

Edited by Moldur, 11 May 2015 - 03:53 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Adamski, on 11 May 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

Clans get a GAUSS rifle that weighs as much as an IS AC/10
Clans get XL engines that are more survivable giving them greater mobility
Clan weapons get greater damage on a per weapon comparison
Clan weapons get greater range on a per ton comparison

QUIRKS bring a select few IS mechs to the Clan equivalent. The STK-4N is the EQUAL to the WHK. STK gets better hit boxes and hardpoint placement, the WHK gets better mobility and flexibility. ETC ETC

The fact that so many Clan whiners think that IS Quirks are so OP is ridiculous and showcases these whiners as switching to Clans in an effort to chase the OP and are disappointed when they didnt find it.

Just want to break this down a bit, line by line.

• Clans get a GAUSS rifle that weighs as much as an IS AC/10

Yes. We also have 20-30% less total weight to work with when customizing. Last I checked, no IS mech can take a Clan Gauss, but if we're trading weapons, mind if I stick a few IS autocannons on my Clan mech? Cross tech comparisons do not exist unless you compare the entire picture.

• Clans get XL engines that are more survivable giving them greater mobility

Absolutely true. That said, we do suffer a (minor) heat penalty when we lose half a mech. We also have zero choice in engine size, leading to such wonderful examples of perfection such as the Gargoyle or Executioner. Even a Timber Wolf is over-engined, and could stand to be a little slower to free up room for guns. We trade free tonnage for speed and durability, however.

• Clan weapons get greater damage on a per weapon comparison

They also do equal to, or less, damage per second than IS weapons, and generate more heat. C'mon, man! Look at more than just one value. There are multiple aspects to the balance state involved here. :\

• Clan weapons get greater range on a per ton comparison

Not post quirk, they don't. Optimized quirk/weapon/mech combinations are seeing IS mechs with Clan ranges or beyond, with all the benefits the IS tech has in regard to burn duration or front loaded damage.


The only point of dubious imbalance is the clan XLE.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 11 May 2015 - 04:05 PM.

[0phialacria]

Adamski, on 11 May 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

Clans get a GAUSS rifle that weighs as much as an IS AC/10
Clans get XL engines that are more survivable giving them greater mobility
Clan weapons get greater damage on a per weapon comparison
Clan weapons get greater range on a per ton comparison

QUIRKS bring a select few IS mechs to the Clan equivalent. The STK-4N is the EQUAL to the WHK. STK gets better hit boxes and hardpoint placement, the WHK gets better mobility and flexibility. ETC ETC

The fact that so many Clan whiners think that IS Quirks are so OP is ridiculous and showcases these whiners as switching to Clans in an effort to chase the OP and are disappointed when they didnt find it.

Ok, so 15 points of damage in the time it takes you to do 20, Rifle to Cannon. Because we don't get charge perks, that's not a thing. We have modules for it, just like you do. They still take time. Just like our lasers, which, once again, burn longer. If you shot on-target, gauss rifle to AC-10, IS AC-10 would out DPS our rifle. We have a moderately fast Assault, indeed. You have a stalker of the same tonnage that can fit 3X the armament of it. We only have 4 energy hardpoints on it max. Plus it generates more heat and has not nearly the perks the stalker has. I didn't change over for OP, I changed over because I loved the Clan Books, like Blood of Kerensky. I also loved the way they did things.

[Khobai]

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So, instead of making something useful to bring CW back to life, PGI implements minor nerf which affects\annoys\pisses off majority of CW population.

Very unwise move in my eyes.

(Ignore my IS faction tag, I'm a mechbay grinding clanner)

Theyre trying to implement 4v4. What more do you want.

The problem is groups have scared away all the solo players. They dont want to get stomped anymore. So CW is basically dead now.

Granted a better short-term solution probably wouldve been to give solo players a huge cbill bonus... so even losing would be worthwhile.

Quote

this is nothing more than a ploy to get the clans out of their home bases. clans are getting reckd right now.

This. im sure youll get your 250 tons back once clans arnt getting wrecked anymore.

Quote

Clans get a GAUSS rifle that weighs as much as an IS AC/10

IS get Gridiron though making that a moot point. Nuff said.

Quote

Clans get XL engines that are more survivable giving them greater mobility

Except theyre not more survivable than IS mechs with standard engines. A Stalker is tougher to kill than a Daishi for example. Clan assaults/heavies get better mobility. Clan lights get worse mobility though.

Quote

Clan weapons get greater damage on a per weapon comparison

Yes my CUAC/20 outdamages your AC/20. LOLOLOL.

The only clan weapons that are outright better are our lasers. All our other weapons are either worse than their IS counterparts or worse than our lasers.

Edited by Khobai, 11 May 2015 - 04:13 PM.

[Kaltenn Kell]

As if we needed another example of PGI's favortism towards the Clans. First the Clans are very OP, but anyone who knows the lore expected that. However, anyone who knows the lore knows that the Clans never fought 1 on 1, and yet PGI allows them to do just that. PGI gave the IS a minuscule weight advantage of 10 tons which did not really help that much. And still the Clans continued to rolled up the IS because PGI allowed mercs to join the Clans...which according to the lore the Clans were death on mercs. Finally PGI gave the IS mechs quirks, coupled with the developement of new tactics allowed the IS to give as good as it got. However PGI could not allow that so the gave the Clans armor and internal structure buffs that made them hard to kill and took away the 10 ton weight advantage. In addition to all of that they are giving the Clans a light mech that will take away the only weight class that the IS had an advantage in. Isn't time that PGI just admitt it, that they are Pro Clans.

[WANTED]

No worries here cause I run a 235 deck. I think this is temporary until clans come back from their Event burnout

[Bashfulsalamander]

0phialacria, on 11 May 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

Ok. Explain that advantage. I mean really. Explain it. I don't see it. We have stormcrows and timbers, you have firestarters, ERLL Ravens, and Stalkers with massive laser quirks. WE don't have fun performance enhancing quirks on those timbers. In FACT, we have performance REDUCING quirks on Timbers.

funny i have seen timbers shoot further then my battlemaster 1s WITH RANGE MODS.... but if you insist
First you want to compare meta? clans can take practically anything. dont like your arm hard points.. swap em, so clan mechs can easily turn VERY meta infact they already do.
Secondly timbers are nerfed because PGI knows they are OP, but they dont have a viable solution to restrict it, but IS needs quirks just to be on THE SAME LEVEL.... Lets not get started on ECM thats a very dead horse that i dont feel like kicking in fact this whole argument seems overly repetitive.

[Duncan1dah0]

Bummer.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Hmm... changes, well...

[Reitmeier]

Like I said before: This will change nothing so no need to discuss again about IS/Clan balance.
I am just disappointed that PGI dont sees the real problems with CW (Population Imbalance, low rewards, and so on) and that they think they will change something with this adjustment.

[Bashfulsalamander]

0phialacria, on 11 May 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

Ok, so 15 points of damage in the time it takes you to do 20, Rifle to Cannon. Because we don't get charge perks, that's not a thing. We have modules for it, just like you do. They still take time. Just like our lasers, which, once again, burn longer. If you shot on-target, gauss rifle to AC-10, IS AC-10 would out DPS our rifle. We have a moderately fast Assault, indeed. You have a stalker of the same tonnage that can fit 3X the armament of it. We only have 4 energy hardpoints on it max. Plus it generates more heat and has not nearly the perks the stalker has. I didn't change over for OP, I changed over because I loved the Clan Books, like Blood of Kerensky. I also loved the way they did things.

Yet another thing i hear alot... CLAN weapons take to long to fire.... yeah they do, but they also do more damage and shoot further and weigh less, so you can fit more on. Overall you will still do more damage at further range even with longer burn times. Secondly i see alot of clan pulse lasers just like IS and its not hard to hold them on one spot of the body, but at long range even IS will spread their damage, so stiop trying to claim it take our weapons longer to do damage when they do MORE DAMAGE.....

[vortmax]

Now I don't have to buy that third Stalker, nor do I have to grind-level my freshly purchased STK-4N! Thanks PGI!


(not really)


And to those talking about the ECM IS Heavy coming out "shortly:" I'm not going to pay dollars in order to compete with the clans' ECM advantage. I'll wait for CB release (probably in six months), thanks.

Edited by vortmax, 11 May 2015 - 04:03 PM.

[Torchfire Katayama]

Kaltenn Kell, on 11 May 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

As if we needed another example of PGI's favortism towards the Clans. First the Clans are very OP, but anyone who knows the lore expected that. However, anyone who knows the lore knows that the Clans never fought 1 on 1, and yet PGI allows them to do just that. PGI gave the IS a minuscule weight advantage of 10 tons which did not really help that much. And still the Clans continued to rolled up the IS because PGI allowed mercs to join the Clans...which according to the lore the Clans were death on mercs. Finally PGI gave the IS mechs quirks, coupled with the developement of new tactics allowed the IS to give as good as it got. However PGI could not allow that so the gave the Clans armor and internal structure buffs that made them hard to kill and took away the 10 ton weight advantage. In addition to all of that they are giving the Clans a light mech that will take away the only weight class that the IS had an advantage in. Isn't time that PGI just admitt it, that they are Pro Clans.

Except Russ is biased towards IS, has said so many times, publicly, and never even wanted clan mechs in the game.

[Triordinant]

Last nail in the CW coffin? Maybe not? Where's the popcorn?

[Moldur]

Reitmeier, on 11 May 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

Like I said before: This will change nothing so no need to discuss again about IS/Clan balance.
I am just disappointed that PGI dont sees the real problems with CW (Population Imbalance, low rewards, and so on) and that they think they will change something with this adjustment.

PGI should throw us piles of free stuff for CW. Anyone can feel free to point out all the flaws with that idea, and I'm not saying it's a great idea (it's not.) but it would still get more people to play CW than currently.

[Adamski]

Pariah Devalis, on 11 May 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

Just want to break this down a bit, line by line.

• Clans get a GAUSS rifle that weighs as much as an IS AC/10

Yes. We also have 20-30% less total weight to work with when customizing. Last I checked, no IS mech can take a Clan Gauss, but if we're trading weapons, mind if I stick a few IS autocannons on my Clan mech? Cross tech comparisons do not exist unless you compare the entire picture.

• Clans get XL engines that are more survivable giving them greater mobility

Absolutely true. That said, we do suffer a (minor) heat penalty when we lose half a mech. We also have zero choice in engine size, leading to such wonderful examples of perfection such as the Gargoyle or Executioner. Even a Timber Wolf is over-engined, and could stand to be a little slower to free up room for guns. We trade free tonnage for speed and durability, however.

• Clan weapons get greater damage on a per weapon comparison

They also do equal to, or less, damage per second than IS weapons. C'mon, man! Look at more than just one value. There are multiple aspects to the balance state involved here. :\

• Clan weapons get greater range on a per ton comparison

Not post quirk, they don't. Optimized quirk/weapon/mech combinations are seeing IS mechs with Clan ranges or beyond, with all the benefits the IS tech has in regard to burn duration or front loaded damage.


The only point of dubious imbalance is the clan XLE.

0phialacria, on 11 May 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

Ok, so 15 points of damage in the time it takes you to do 20, Rifle to Cannon. Because we don't get charge perks, that's not a thing. We have modules for it, just like you do. They still take time. Just like our lasers, which, once again, burn longer. If you shot on-target, gauss rifle to AC-10, IS AC-10 would out DPS our rifle. We have a moderately fast Assault, indeed. You have a stalker of the same tonnage that can fit 3X the armament of it. We only have 4 energy hardpoints on it max. Plus it generates more heat and has not nearly the perks the stalker has. I didn't change over for OP, I changed over because I loved the Clan Books, like Blood of Kerensky. I also loved the way they did things.

You two are idiots.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment

Here. Your weapons DO MORE DPS PER WEAPON

DPS: WHK 4x cLPL ====== STK-4N 6x LL (****YES THAT INCLUDES QUIRKS***)
The WHK gets better range (660m) compared to the STK (585m)
The WHK moves faster
The STK gets better hitboxes and hardpoint locations

Not going to argue with you two any further in this thread as it is incredibly off topic.

[Pariah Devalis]

Moldur, on 11 May 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

PGI should throw us piles of free stuff for CW. Anyone can feel free to point out all the flaws with that idea, and I'm not saying it's a great idea (it's not.) but it would still get more people to play CW than currently.

I agree. Would like to see those faction camo unlocks, a free faction specific mech as a reward for certain tiers, etc.

But no. Have another Gazelle dropship. XD

[Gorgo7]

Should be reduced to 220 tons...THAT would bring to the fore Mediums which should be the most prevalent machines in the IS!

[Mosadoff]

Gorgo7, on 11 May 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

Should be reduced to 220 tons...THAT would bring to the fore Mediums which should be the most prevalent machines in the IS!

THAT would bring more food for cats and crows...