71 replies to this topic

[Nightmare1]

Lol...

MM for the win!

[bad arcade kitty]

DaZur, on 12 May 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:

OP, while I understand and appreciate your issue... This is a byproduct of wait-time concerns and the flood-gate mechanic to accommodate shallow Elo and or class pools.

It's not something that needs to be patch because it is doing it's job of providing a match within a reasonable time-frame... I.e. "It's working as intended".

If this happened every flipping match, I'd be right there with you. Reality is it's an exception to the norm...

they could shift some of the heavies to the other team though

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 12 May 2015 - 03:29 PM.

[Dino Might]

My only issue with this is that the maps are so small, there's no way to effectively scout the enemy force in time to prepare any sort of alternate tactics with your own team. By the time contact is made, you are deathball to deathball, and you just hope that the 3rd King Crab your team has just taken down is their last assault. About that time, half your team is cored, and a fresh enemy Dire Wolf walks around the corner. It's a bit disheartening when I take the LCT-1E (Queequeg) out and harpoon two whales in one match, being on the way to the game of my life, only to have 3 more enemy assaults take out the remainder of my team while I'm busy.

If there was scouting and maneuver, a lighter team could adjust accordingly and have advantages over the assault heavy team, if the maps allowed for it. The assault heavy team would have the advantage over the lighter team that doesn't scout and maneuver.

Edited by Dino Might, 12 May 2015 - 04:18 PM.

[Madcap72]

Dino Might, on 12 May 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

My only issue with this is that the maps are so small, there's no way to effectively scout the enemy force in time to prepare any sort of alternate tactics with your own team. By the time contact is made, you are deathball to deathball, and you just hope that the 3rd King Crab your team has just taken down is their last assault. About that time, half your team is cored, and a fresh enemy Dire Wolf walks around the corner. It's a bit disheartening when I take the LCT-1E (Queequeg) out and harpoon two whales in one match, being on the way to the game of my life, only to have 3 more enemy assaults take out the remainder of my team while I'm busy.

If there was scouting and maneuver, a lighter team could adjust accordingly and have advantages over the assault heavy team, if the maps allowed for it. The assault heavy team would have the advantage over the lighter team that doesn't scout and maneuver.

RIght?! Plus, on the maps that are large enough to do it, no one does unless someone shows initiative and takes charge. It will be interesting to see how the new map revamps treat the old 8v8 origional maps.

[Koniks]

If OP's team had 5 Pirate's Banes they'd have won.

[El Bandito]

Let me guess, you played on Caustic and those Warhawks were all equipped with Lurms?

[DaZur]

KharnZor, on 12 May 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

Before you post its a good idea to examine an OP to try to get an understanding of just what exactly the OP is posting about.
Example, a team of ants with perfect tactical coordination is still going to get stomped by that elephant they are attacking.

https://youtu.be/MDECjR3VY3o

[STEF_]

Deathlike, on 12 May 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:

It doesn't really work when the release valves are in play.

In most lopsided tonnage imbalance, one of the teams most likely is waiting its full allotted time of 5 minutes (whether it be some large competitive group or not - it can happen to others depending on the circumstances).

Ultimately, the issue is a playerbase size in queue issue, and much less anything else.

What would be nice is proper mech balancing, but that is not PGI's forte either, so it doesn't make a difference unfortunately.

Well, in that chase our group of 6 players: lance charlie + the first 2 of lance alpha.

As light pilots are a minority, I was expecting lance beta with more tonnage.
I cannot know the composition of red team, but it seems resonable that swicthing red lance alpha or beta with our beta, it would give a more balanced match.

Yes, population isn't so large.... but MM doesn't take into accout tonnage, anyway. (or 3/3/3/3 composition with multiple group, either; or am I wrong?)

[STEF_]

Escef, on 12 May 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

While tonnage is a factor, he idea that balancing by tonnage is the answer is patently laughable. But I'm pretty sure we both know that. Also, the match maker does take weight classes into account, but when so few people in the group queue want to play lights you are going to end up with top-heavy teams.

And I don't think the answer is tonnage balancing. ELO isn't the answer. Some kind of Battle Value system isn't the answer, either. There needs to be some kind of system that incentivizes diversity in the group queue.

Well, balancing tonnage, (or BV or other stuff) won't give a balanced match; but maybe, a tonnage bracket can give a less unbalanced match than the screenshotted one.

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 12 May 2015 - 05:34 PM, said:

Let me guess, you played on Caustic and those Warhawks were all equipped with Lurms?

hahahaha, no, my grand lurmancer of Regulus.... only 2 of them were lurmer

[Pjwned]

This is what you get when you play in the group queue and the player population isn't high enough to support properly weight balanced matches.

There's not really much to do about it unless you want to wait 30 minutes to find a match.

bad arcade kitty, on 12 May 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:

they could shift some of the heavies to the other team though

Considering it's the group queue that's probably not a viable option more often than you think.

Edited by Pjwned, 12 May 2015 - 10:24 PM.

[Telmasa]

Sad to say it, but I think this just ultimately proves that for "public-qeue" grinding purposes, limiting premades to a size of 4 (or 5, to appease the clanners around town) is the best middle-ground.

Otherwise, it's gonna be MM imbalance, long wait times, unfair lineups whether in terms of mechs or players, the list will go on and on....

The only way full premade teams really work, at least with minimal frustrations & maximum fun, is in an organized & scheduled tournament format; even in CW people are recognizing the problems that occur when comparing "pug" games to "premade" games.

It's tough to voice this, cause I do try to see both sides of the coin - being able to group up with all 11 other guys is a fun experience, not being able to do that would suck.

I just think it would suck less than putting up with what everybody has to deal with now.

Besides, some kind of 12v12 solaris-team-tournament format with its own set of rewards and things would be really cool, and open up a whole new avenue of televised "esports" (much as I know Mystere hates this kinda thing), which would potentially bring a lot of attention, people (and money) into MW:O.

There's no way that'll ever happen if CW, and much less group qeue, is held onto as the "12-man-premade" arena.

Edited by Telmasa, 13 May 2015 - 12:29 AM.

[Deathlike]

Stefka Kerensky, on 12 May 2015 - 09:34 PM, said:

Well, in that chase our group of 6 players: lance charlie + the first 2 of lance alpha.

As light pilots are a minority, I was expecting lance beta with more tonnage.
I cannot know the composition of red team, but it seems resonable that swicthing red lance alpha or beta with our beta, it would give a more balanced match.

Yes, population isn't so large.... but MM doesn't take into accout tonnage, anyway. (or 3/3/3/3 composition with multiple group, either; or am I wrong?)

It may account for tonnage, but it is more likely to focus on weight class above all else (Quickdraw = Timberwolf as far as the MM is concerned).

If what you're looking for is something like "for every Light on your team, there is an Assault on your team" and do this for both sides (Elo factored in) in compensating for the worst case scenario, you could kinda try and ask for that, but I don't know if PGI is willing to mess with the MM at all.

There shouldn't be any particular reason that 5 Dire Wolves could possibly be the worst case scenario if one side gets it (more likely that both sides will have that, but that's another mess of randomness that could happen)...

Anyways, with the playerbase size, it just isn't possible at certain times of the day.

Edited by Deathlike, 13 May 2015 - 12:38 AM.

[Nightshade24]

welcome to MW:O


enemy team is mainly lights and thus light rush you = OP
(enemy team is severely under tonned)

enemy team is mainly assaults and thus assault rush you = OP
(enemy team is severely over tonned)

(not saying your whinning over nothing, I'm simply saying it's funny how either end of the spectrum is considered troublesome)

[mogs01gt]

Nightshade24, on 13 May 2015 - 12:40 AM, said:

welcome to MW:O
enemy team is mainly lights and thus light rush you = OP
(enemy team is severely under tonned)
enemy team is mainly assaults and thus assault rush you = OP
(enemy team is severely over tonned)
(not saying your whinning over nothing, I'm simply saying it's funny how either end of the spectrum is considered troublesome)

WTF is this rush crap? We arent talking about CW.

It's very rare when a lighter team wins unless they have superior chassis. If one team has multiple FS9s, Crows and TBRs vs a team with multiple assaults but **** assaults like Awesomes or Victors along side one or two weaker variant Atlas. My money is on the TBRs and Crows.

This issue we have is a horrible MM and massively imbalanced mechs.

Edited by mogs01gt, 13 May 2015 - 04:50 AM.

[Nightshade24]

mogs01gt, on 13 May 2015 - 04:49 AM, said:

WTF is this rush crap? We arent talking about CW.

It's very rare when a lighter team wins unless they have superior chassis. If one team has multiple FS9s, Crows and TBRs vs a team with multiple assaults but **** assaults like Awesomes or Victors along side one or two weaker variant Atlas. My money is on the TBRs and Crows.

This issue we have is a horrible MM and massively imbalanced mechs.

I am talking about all game modes, this is a universal thing which you should know if you played longer then 2 months.

Also it's as common for a lighter team to win if it has the greater negative tonnage from the average then the other team has possitive.

Let's say for simplicity sake the average of teams is 1000 tonnage.

If team A is 500 tons (-500 tons) and team B is 1250 tons (+250 tons) then team A will most often win assuming same level of skill, tier, and modules on each team.

[YueFei]

Nightshade24, on 13 May 2015 - 08:06 PM, said:

I am talking about all game modes, this is a universal thing which you should know if you played longer then 2 months.

Also it's as common for a lighter team to win if it has the greater negative tonnage from the average then the other team has possitive.

Let's say for simplicity sake the average of teams is 1000 tonnage.

If team A is 500 tons (-500 tons) and team B is 1250 tons (+250 tons) then team A will most often win assuming same level of skill, tier, and modules on each team.

Right, that's why competitive teams take nothing but Lights into battle against each other and don't bother filling out the allotted tonnage limits.

[Nightshade24]

YueFei, on 13 May 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

Right, that's why competitive teams take nothing but Lights into battle against each other and don't bother filling out the allotted tonnage limits.

in public (current): because you cna't take more then 3 of any weight class, you need at least 5 in decent co ordination to seal club the enemy. Vice versa, you can't take 6 assaults and 6 heavies like what the team on this post did practically, this was just a fluke between multiple groups.

In public (before group changes): you saw this a lot... 12 man teams of ravens, jenners, and spiders.

In CW (current): you see these a lot, firestarters and spiders killing a whole wave of enemies or two without more then 2 deaths or taking out all generators under 5 minutes and winning.
(PS: clans can't do this as there lights do not play the same.)

You saw a lot of 12 lights in CW tukayiid event if your a clanner, more common then 12 stalkers or king crabs or dragons.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Stefka Kerensky, on 12 May 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

I know it's already been discussed...but still.


Maybe, PGI should consider adding a "patch" to MM. (and I'm not talking about elo)

You all played Nascar around the bowl and the other team were better racers?

[sycocys]

Battle time 5:20, my guess is that 10 of 12 on your team walked into them single file and 2 people actually attempted to have a match at it.