471 replies to this topic

[DAYLEET]

Solahma, on 18 May 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

Also, your explaination makes not sense. They did WORK in group queue, ground their way to the top, then it all dissappeared, then they had to grind AGAIN in solo only to get back up top. So... what you're saying is, IT DIDN"T MATTER. The good players STILL got to the top regardless.

So again, I'll ask you, what's the point of removing the group queue grind matches?

Based my observation on my time in group queue and solo queue the past 4 days, Never played group before last week and i come back from a 6 months break and even though i only have a 2man group and the other guy has not played in a much longer time than me, yeah it's a hell lot easier in group but it's also a lot more boring half the time.

So, I played both group and solo in my Locust and my position sank by a large margin the second group queue got erased. I DID have more match in group but i know what kinda score i got in group and what i got in solo with my locust. I would have to play a lot more games in solo to get back where i was.

Group is easier to get a good score without trying to game the system. Match are mostly 1 side stomping the others where in solo you get more good fight and big brawls which in the end makes it harder to get the freak score you need. Also what is it with the shameful and puerile attitude in group queue where people suicide all the time? minimum 1 per match(and no it's not trying to get the last hit for a kill).

This all comes from someone who is not trying to game the system to get the stats needed to be on top, i just play as i always do. It's my own choice and i like it that way. Maybe someone who is actively trying to exploit the scoring system and plays a better mech can do as good in the same time in solo.

[Gnume]

PGI was screwed one way or the other...looks like they decided they would upset fewer people by resetting it to the stated rules, whether that was the original intent or not. Had they left it the way it was, with Group counting towards the Leaderboard Challenge, then all the people who mistakenly thought they HAD to play Solo would have been just as angry.

The root of the problem is they lock out queues instead of letting people just play the game. Other than CW, it should not matter WHICH queue a player drops...just let them play the game! I have been trying to get that message through to PGI since they started these challenges. STOP MAKING THEM QUEUE DEPENDENT for someone to actually participate.

Edited by CaptRosha, 18 May 2015 - 10:49 AM.

[DAYLEET]

CaptRosha, on 18 May 2015 - 10:47 AM, said:

STOP MAKING THEM QUEUE DEPENDENT for someone to actually participate.

Or have 2 leaderboard, how hard would that be. Queues have to be separated because they are not the same game.

[Solahma]

DAYLEET, on 18 May 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

Or have 2 leaderboard, how hard would that be. Queues have to be separated because they are not the same game.

DING DING DING.
Excellent idea!

[Solahma]

DAYLEET, on 18 May 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

So, I played both group and solo in my Locust and my position sank by a large margin the second group queue got erased. I DID have more match in group but i know what kinda score i got in group and what i got in solo with my locust. I would have to play a lot more games in solo to get back where i was.

because it's all a GRIND. The more games you play, the better your score. Remove some/most of those games and of course your score is going to drop. Thing is, group queue scoring is CONSISTENT, which is different than scoring REALLY WELL. So if you have a base-line consistent 10 games, then it is going to help your score, but it's not going to make is skyrocket individually. Those BIG games, 75% or more of the time (probably more) come from SOLO queue, not group.

DAYLEET, on 18 May 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

Group is easier to get a good score without trying to game the system. Match are mostly 1 side stomping the others where in solo you get more good fight and big brawls which in the end makes it harder to get the freak score you need. Also what is it with the shameful and puerile attitude in group queue where people suicide all the time? minimum 1 per match(and no it's not trying to get the last hit for a kill).

I keep hearing that. "It's easier". That doesn't mean anything. NO it's not easier to get a really GOOD game for the boards. YES it's easier to keep wining in group queue with a good team. Two completely separate things. You can have a team that is always doing well, maybe your get consistent scores that are decent matches, but most of those games are NOT going to be great scoring games for the Tournament itself.

DAYLEET, on 18 May 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

This all comes from someone who is not trying to game the system to get the stats needed to be on top, i just play as i always do. It's my own choice and i like it that way.

I doubt anyone is actually trying to "game" the system. I am doing the same as you. Going Hard! and playing like I always play, nothing to it.

The only real way to "game" the system would be in a 12-man group, an everyone picks ONE person to do the killing. Everyone else just legs and mames other mechs. I have NEVER seen this happen or even attempted. Not even to go for the Death Star. It would be far too difficult to execute. There is really no other way to "game" the tournament though. Sync drop 12v12 is the ONLY thing that could happen and PGI should have easy visibility if that ever happened and simply punish those involved instead of everyone who invested time into the boards.

[RavenKnight86]

Over here laughing at all the people who don't read the rules and now want to QQ. It is explicitly stated for the leaderboard that ONLY solo matches in Assault, Skirmish, and Conquest count. And now for those who say what was the point of changing halfway through, well next time read the contest rules. They discovered a bug and fixed it. Maybe you should have followed the rules of the tournament instead of exploiting a bug in the system.

"13. Disclaimer and Limit of Liability.
SPONSORS MAKE NO (AND HEREBY DISCLAIM ALL) REPRESENTATIONS, WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, REGARDING THE CONTEST, ANY PRIZE OR ANY ENTRANT’S PARTICIPATION IN THE CONTEST. SPONSORS SHALL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE OR LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS, DAMAGE, COST, OR INJURY THAT ARISES FROM OR RELATES TO PARTICIPATION IN THE CONTEST, OR WINNING OR USE OF A PRIZE, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO: (I) LATE, LOST, DELAYED, DAMAGED, MISDIRECTED, INCOMPLETE, OR UNINTELLIGIBLE ENTRIES; (II) TELEPHONE, ELECTRONIC, HARDWARE OR SOFTWARE PROGRAM, NETWORK, INTERNET, OR COMPUTER MALFUNCTIONS, FAILURES, VIRUSES OR DIFFICULTIES OF ANY KIND; (III) FAILED, INCOMPLETE, GARBLED, OR DELAYED COMPUTER TRANSMISSIONS; (IV) THE DOWNLOADING OF ANY MATERIAL IN CONNECTION WITH THIS CONTEST; AND (V) ANY OTHER CONDITION THAT MAY CAUSE THE CONTEST TO BE DISRUPTED OR CORRUPTED. THE SPONSORS RESERVE THE RIGHT, IN THEIR SOLE DISCRETION AND WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE, TO SUSPEND OR CANCEL THE CONTEST OR ALTER THE RULES IN THE SPONSORS’ REASONABLE DISCRETION, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, IF AT ANY TIME A COMPUTER VIRUS, TECHNICAL PROBLEM, OR OTHER UNFORESEEABLE EVENT ALTERS OR CORRUPTS THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE CONTEST."

[GrnMonster]

DAYLEET, on 18 May 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

Group is easier to get a good score without trying to game the system. Match are mostly 1 side stomping the others where in solo you get more good fight and big brawls which in the end makes it harder to get the freak score you need.better mech can do as good in the same time in solo.

I've done quite a few of these challenges now, and that whole statement is backwards.

The last thing you want is one side stomping the other. If your side rolls to victory the other team likely dies so fast that you don't have enough time to hit all the enemy mechs to get assists. Also, you likely do not have time to get multiple solo kills, or most damages. And, you certainly won't have time to hit a very high damage total. On the other hand, if your team gets rolled then you will likely get at most 1 or 2 kills, probably zero assists, and a pretty low damage total.

The ideal game for a high score is a slow game with lots of trading early on, which gives you time to flank and engage from different vantage points so you can get a hit on as many mechs as possible. You need to be constantly dealing damage somewhere. Then, for your score to really get higher, the best situation is where the teams are dwindling down at about the same rate because this drags the game out longer allowing you to do more damage. The end game is where you can start finalizing solo kills and most damage kills.

I find that games that play out like that are much more prevalent in the solo queue than in the group queue. Because in the group queue you may have games that are close for a while, but usually once the tipping point is reached the coordination factor tends to end things quickly, whereas the solo queue has much worse communication so teams may be able to recover and even things back up if they fall behind.

[Solahma]

CaptRosha, on 18 May 2015 - 10:47 AM, said:

PGI was screwed one way or the other...looks like they decided they would upset fewer people by resetting it to the stated rules, whether that was the original intent or not. Had they left it the way it was, with Group counting towards the Leaderboard Challenge, then all the people who mistakenly thought they HAD to play Solo would have been just as angry.

Well, that's what happened last week during the founder's event. Some people didn't even participate because they thought it was Solo only. In this weeks case, more people realized groups DID count and participated, now they are all mad because they put the effort into the event and it was all for not. The difference here is that people would have been mad because they would have participated if groups were allowed, but games aren't actually removed in that case, and all the solo droppers games still count. But how they decided to handle it actually WASTED people's time by removing games. On one hand, some people actually LOST matches and time they spent toward the event. On the other hand, some people would be mad because they would have been playing group instead, but haven't LOST their games.

IMO they made the wrong choice between the two for sure.

[Solahma]

RavenKnight86, on 18 May 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

Over here laughing at all the people who don't read the rules and now want to QQ. It is explicitly stated for the leaderboard that ONLY solo matches in Assault, Skirmish, and Conquest count. And now for those who say what was the point of changing halfway through, well next time read the contest rules. They discovered a bug and fixed it. Maybe you should have followed the rules of the tournament instead of exploiting a bug in the system.

Laugh away. FYI people DID read the rules and because group games WERE OBVIOUSLY COUNTING they made the reasonable assumption that PGI simply screwed up the event text. "Explicity stated" or not, the matches were EXPLICITLY counting. Bug or not, ****** way to handle it by changing it mid-event. Don't come in here throwing fuel on the fire. You're not even on the boards, why should your opinion matter in this situation? I am, GrnMonster is, others are, but not you. WE have a right to "QQ" about it because it was handled badly. No announcement, nothing. Just "well fk you guys, it was a bug". They didn't do anything about it last week either, so it was a FAIR assumption they simply ****** up the rules.

Hell, I got on the boards again after grinding my way back up, so saying that I'm QQing is rather silly. I have no reason to QQ, i'm where I want to be. I'm still not going to say PGI did the right thing here. They should have CLARIFIED between last weeks event and this weeks and had a solution. Several people brought it up, but apparently we were ignored until the event had already started and people had already put many hours into their ranks.

So yes, all those who were effected by this have a right to QQ, as would solo players, however the argument that group > solo matches is unsupported at best.

Edited by Solahma, 18 May 2015 - 11:30 AM.

[GrnMonster]

Solahma, on 18 May 2015 - 11:19 AM, said:

Well, that's what happened last week during the founder's event. Some people didn't even participate because they thought it was Solo only. In this weeks case, more people realized groups DID count and participated, now they are all mad because they put the effort into the event and it was all for not. The difference here is that people would have been mad because they would have participated if groups were allowed, but games aren't actually removed in that case, and all the solo droppers games still count. But how they decided to handle it actually WASTED people's time by removing games. On one hand, some people actually LOST matches and time they spent toward the event. On the other hand, some people would be mad because they would have been playing group instead, but haven't LOST their games.

IMO they made the wrong choice between the two for sure.

That's the part that ticked me off the most. I was playing my ass off Friday and Saturday, and was able to put up a ridiculous score.



To have it removed with little explanation as to why it was fixed this weekend when last weekend was allowed to stand is annoying to say the least. I was able to get back in the top 10, but yesterday was a painful experience, just like every other Sunday during these events. I always seem to do well on Friday and Saturday and by the time Sunday rolls around my brain is starting to get fried. I wish PGI hadn't screwed this up so I could have been solo'ing Friday and Saturday when I was actually playing well.

[RavenKnight86]

Solahma, maybe you should read the contest rules. Just cause you feel it screwed you over doesn't mean it wasn't the right choice.

Section 13...
(V) ANY OTHER CONDITION THAT MAY CAUSE THE CONTEST TO BE DISRUPTED OR CORRUPTED. THE SPONSORS RESERVE THE RIGHT, IN THEIR SOLE DISCRETION AND WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE, TO SUSPEND OR CANCEL THE CONTEST OR ALTER THE RULES IN THE SPONSORS’ REASONABLE DISCRETION, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, IF AT ANY TIME A COMPUTER VIRUS, TECHNICAL PROBLEM, OR OTHER UNFORESEEABLE EVENT ALTERS OR CORRUPTS THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE CONTEST.

They found a condition that corrupted the contest and at their discretion fixed it so that only the games they stated would count counted. So you only read the contest page and not the rules. Next time go by the letter of the stated contest and then you wouldn't have to worry about wasting your time. Course if you had gone by the letter of the contest in the first place you wouldn't have discovered group games were counting cause you would have been in solo queue.

[DAYLEET]

Solahma, on 18 May 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

The only real way to "game" the system would be in a 12-man group, an everyone picks ONE person to do the killing.

That's not what i meant, that would be cheating. What i meant was being the best asset to your team has nothing to do with how the scoring system count things, but it;s fine because what else can it do. Knowing what to do, when to do it and be the best player for your team wont help you get the best score, you have to actively work for those events. assist/kills/damage.

Solahma, on 18 May 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

Thing is, group queue scoring is CONSISTENT, which is different than scoring REALLY WELL. So if you have a base-line consistent 10 games, then it is going to help your score, but it's not going to make is skyrocket individually. Those BIG games, 75% or more of the time (probably more) come from SOLO queue, not group.

I agree it's more consistent. I dunno where youll have more freak game but, for little me in my Lct, i had all my best match in group and they were nothing better than 3 kills with 3-4 assist and +-400 damage. But i worked my damn best to make sure people still make "dont chase the light" thread lol. Getting poked in the back by something you can 1 shot really get some people moving =)

[RavenKnight86]

And also let me get this right, so instead of realizing this wasn't working right and notifying PGI that their contest wasn't working right you all decided to take advantage of this and now want to whine cause you didn't follow the rules?

[Solahma]

RavenKnight86, on 18 May 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

Solahma, maybe you should read the contest rules. Just cause you feel it screwed you over doesn't mean it wasn't the right choice.

Section 13...
(V) ANY OTHER CONDITION THAT MAY CAUSE THE CONTEST TO BE DISRUPTED OR CORRUPTED. THE SPONSORS RESERVE THE RIGHT, IN THEIR SOLE DISCRETION AND WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE, TO SUSPEND OR CANCEL THE CONTEST OR ALTER THE RULES IN THE SPONSORS’ REASONABLE DISCRETION, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, IF AT ANY TIME A COMPUTER VIRUS, TECHNICAL PROBLEM, OR OTHER UNFORESEEABLE EVENT ALTERS OR CORRUPTS THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE CONTEST.

They found a condition that corrupted the contest and at their discretion fixed it so that only the games they stated would count counted. So you only read the contest page and not the rules. Next time go by the letter of the stated contest and then you wouldn't have to worry about wasting your time. Course if you had gone by the letter of the contest in the first place you wouldn't have discovered group games were counting cause you would have been in solo queue.

This isn't about finding a reason to do it, they didn't have to find a reason, it was PGI's call regardless and all they would have had to do is let people know. No amount of convincing would change that. They could have JUST as easily changed the Event text to say "Only solo and group public matches..." and it would be the same. They don't need technical writing to support that decision, the decision is theirs to make regardless.

RavenKnight86, on 18 May 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

And also let me get this right, so instead of realizing this wasn't working right and notifying PGI that their contest wasn't working right you all decided to take advantage of this and now want to whine cause you didn't follow the rules?

I guess you don't like to read what I post, just keep arguing your opinion on the subject. I DID bring this up. Last week, this week, RIGHT before the event started in Sean's Reddit post. Each time it was ignored. Nothing was done. No clarification. Nothing. And all throughout group queues are still registering an no reason to believe anything is wrong.

And also "take advantage". Are you daft? Pretty sure most of these posts have been concerning how there is no "advantage" to group queue. So why do you keep implying that when it's not true? If it is, please show me an example of how this is the case.

Edited by Solahma, 18 May 2015 - 12:00 PM.

[Solahma]

Here is some actual support for my argument.

Solo queue. Best match i've had in the BLR all weekend, by a good margin. GrnMonster is also there, and his score is actually close to what a GOOD match would be in the group queue. Infact, that's about what an average group queue game would look like.

So again SOLO:



Compared to what MANY group matches looked like. TOUGH matchups because Elo Works BETTER with bigger groups of good players. But like I said above, GrnMonster in that Alpine match displayed what a "typical" group queue game average was in BLR. The best games were 2-3 kills, several assists, and 600-700 damage. Either decent damage, or more kills and less damage typically. Compare that to the 1k game above. If I WANTED TO, I could easily get a few more of those GREAT games in solo queue and jump back up to #1, but I don't want to be in the top 5 as I realized I have no other BLR to put that camo on. So i'm actually hoping I drop a few more positions to give someone else that prize.

I have others from decent group queue games, but none uploaded atm

GROUP:





Really, the biggest difference is the LUCK involved with getting a combination of things to go your way in solo queue. Group is consistent good decisions, coordination, and getting a very good game means it was a close match usually or something impressive. Solo simply feels like "meh, my turn to do well I guess". Nothing rewarding about a good game other than "Good I wasn't completely screwed over this match"

Edited by Solahma, 18 May 2015 - 12:04 PM.

[RavenKnight86]

Random screen shots prove nothing. I have screen shots where I do way better in group than solo and I could pick and choose some to use as "evidence" for my argument. Fact is that dropping in a group it could be used to help a player climb the leaderboard while solo even though you're on a team you're more reliant on just yourself. Therefore PGI decided to vacate all the group drops so they wouldn't count. And since my absence on the leaderboard is a way for you to insult me and say my opinion doesn't count, sorry I'd rather group up with friends at night and play that way then try to climb a leaderboard legitimately by solo'ing the whole weekend.

[Sagamore]

GrnMonster, on 18 May 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

That's the part that ticked me off the most. I was playing my ass off Friday and Saturday, and was able to put up a ridiculous score.



To have it removed with little explanation as to why it was fixed this weekend when last weekend was allowed to stand is annoying to say the least. I was able to get back in the top 10, but yesterday was a painful experience, just like every other Sunday during these events. I always seem to do well on Friday and Saturday and by the time Sunday rolls around my brain is starting to get fried. I wish PGI hadn't screwed this up so I could have been solo'ing Friday and Saturday when I was actually playing well.

I haven't done group queue for this or the last tourny so I can't comment directly on that but I would guess that getting those "magic matches" would be easier in group queue if you had some people rooting for you (ie. saving shots, covering your back etc.) I could be wrong and your lance mates body block you, take the killing blows and core you from behind like the solo queue

[Solahma]

Not random screen. My best game, and an average game for group queue illustrating the increased potential of solo queue, and the tougher matches in group queue. If all you see are "random screens that prove nothing" also realize that you still haven't supported your argument in any substantial way. And because you admittedly would rather NOT participate in the event that means what I have to say about player experience in the event is what? 100% more valid? Because I'm actually participating? That's what I meant earlier, not to insult you, but to point out that you aren't participating.

EDIT: also, have you considered that only looking out for yourself creates an unbalanced way to get good scores? Sit back when you should be tanking damage. Let everyone else lead a push. Wait for killshots. etc. It's all much easier to do in Solo queue, NOT group queue. So which is actually taking advantage of the team?

Edited by Solahma, 18 May 2015 - 12:29 PM.

[GrnMonster]

Sagamore, on 18 May 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

I haven't done group queue for this or the last tourny so I can't comment directly on that but I would guess that getting those "magic matches" would be easier in group queue if you had some people rooting for you (ie. saving shots, covering your back etc.) I could be wrong and your lance mates body block you, take the killing blows and core you from behind like the solo queue

I'll tell you what. Watch this video from Friday night. This was one of my two best games while the group queue was being counted. Let know how many instances you see where my unit mates are helping me out in that manner. Then count the instances where they try to annoy the #%$%$^ out of me. Our comms are not exactly conducive to top level play

[Solahma]

GrnMonster, on 18 May 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

I'll tell you what. Watch this video from Friday night. This was one of my two best games while the group queue was being counted. Let know how many instances you see where my unit mates are helping me out in that manner. Then count the instances where they try to annoy the #%$%$^ out of me. Our comms are not exactly conducive to top level play

And this is from the top performer before group matches were removed. So if a match like this happened, that i'm sure you can all agree was NOT doctored or setup or given to him by his team, then really what are you arguing to prove?