471 replies to this topic

[ShinVector]

Grynos, on 14 May 2015 - 05:48 PM, said:

As a relatively newer player than most, I think this is wrong.. The founders should have their founders Mechs be unique and the same goes with the Phoenix mechs. If PGI/IGP said that those mechs would be a limited edition it should stay that way.... By giving the Phoenix owners the ability to decide if they come up again is nothing more than a "cop out" so that PGI can just say well we put it in those players hands...

Now all this being said, if PGI was going to do a new Phoenix package with different mechs perhaps 2 or3 mechs and said if the original Phoenix players met a goal they would unlock the new package and get one of the mechs for free, I would agree that would be a good thing...

Now thats said... Who the hell would want to run the Locust 1V in the tourny ???
MWO's worst mech ever...

[YUyahoo]

Hillslam, on 14 May 2015 - 05:57 PM, said:

this is classic bait and switch

sleazy move

voting no

This isn't really "bait and switch", this is PGI putting the decision into the hands of a part of the community that the decision appears to affect the most...but only after they meet a goal that is set by PGI during a weekend event.

Edited by YUyahoo, 14 May 2015 - 06:04 PM.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Fobhopper, on 14 May 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

If they were actually desperate, in any way shape or form, they would expand the window from when the mechs were purchasable as a pack to when they became available for cbills. And then they would release the phoenix pack WITHOUT input from phoenix owners. IF they were desperate for money, they would be doing much more oderous things like releasing DLC map packs like Call of Duty, Battlefield or any other money-grabbing tactic they could think of. Then release "remixed" collection mech packs. and increase the price of mech wave collections....and a whole slew of other potential things.But they aren't doing that.

This isnt desperation, this is how you interact with the community on a very touchy subject. It sounds like you are in a particularly bitchy mood today and looking for an axe to grind.

Agreed, this is far from desperation. A lot of people asked about the Phoenix pack coming back... Myself included. All the other mech packs, aside from the Founders and Phoenix are available indefinitely...

This is an example of them listening to the community. But, they don't want to alienate the Phoenix Pack owners, so they gave them a choice in the matter. It's a good way to handle it.

You don't like it? Fine. But don't rage against them for giving the option. Use your vote to say no.

[Lyoto Machida]

Smoked, on 14 May 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

Odd I don't really get your point. Only in some rare cases are any raw materials or components of a final product worth more than the end result, the product itself. Perhaps you can say the sheet metal of a car skin for instance is worth more than a car, after it's been a wreck.

Bilbo is stating that since this is electronic and is just code, that he has no real concern about rarity and having an assumption that his phoenix set has a greater value. But to extend that to his actual finances would not be a logical association.

A valid counterargument would've been that since you own something that was on sale for a limited time, you have a feeling of exclusivity of which one can derive a sense of uniqueness or belonging to a limited club, of which you can associate a value.

He was saying that the rarity of a virtual item is meaningless, since he'll never physically own it. Technically, your financial assets (401k accounts, stock accounts, etc) are also virtual items that you'll never physically own (unless you keep all your of your cash and valuables in your home, which most sane people don't)...yet they still retain some value. The difference is that people don't trade in Phoenix variant mechs (or Picassos) for the most part...they trade in government backed currency.

People were asking how it was possible for "Gold Timberwolves" to be "out of stock" when it is a item that can be reproduced indefinitely. Our currency (a physical item) can be reproduced by the US govt. in any quantity they want as well...we're not on the gold standard anymore. The more dollars they print, the more it devalues each dollar (more or less but I wasn't an econ major so don't ask me to go into details about inflation, etc).

Anyway, regarding virtual items...some dude sold a virtual club in some game for $635,000 real life dollars, so...

Quote

In the recent $635,000 sale, Jacobs sold off his virtual property in chunks. The largest portion went to another avatar by the name of John Foma Kalun, who paid $335,000. This single transaction may be the largest virtual transaction ever, supplanting the previous record set by Erik “Buzz” Lightyear, another Entropia resident who bought The Crystal Palace Space Station for $330,000 in 2009.

http://www.forbes.co...rtual-property/

My ultimate point is that the line between "real" and "virtual" is getting very blurry nowadays...

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

I never even bothered with the wolverine and that other mech from this pack. I may add some kills over the weekend but honestly, if I knew the clan package was going to be in the game I wouldn't have bothered.

Still, if we open the vote I'd vote for it to be opened up again cause why not.

[Smoked]

All PHX owners, please vote no. You have the power in your hands to keep PGI honest in this one instance. They have had numberous other sales, limited releases, etc. Case in point, Clan Wave 3 early adopter bonus, where they have "supported" the players by extending dates, etc. I think whenever they changed the terms of the offers of sales, they have always gained financially. Such as the additional variants for resistance 1 mechs if you bought the 2 package. Yes the previous owners of Resistance 1 pack and early purchasers of pack 2 gained an extra item, but the true reason why they did this was to sell more Resistance 2 packs..

Is it wrong for a company to sell items at it's discretion? Certainly not and I wholeheartedly encourage PGI to sell anything and everything at their disposal for whatever price they want to stay in business to keep the game going.

Is it wrong for a company to lie, namely through falsely advertisement, to get results? Most certainly so.

Is it wrong for us to want to keep PGI accountable for their actions? I don't think so. But the only true way for any company to have any real repercussions for any dishonest behavior is through it's sales. But usually the only true diehard fans of a game will spend any considerable amount of time in the forums rather than in game and have these discussions. So it is difficult for most of us to not purchase anything for PGI to feel our discontent with their explicitly deceitful statements regarding terms of sales of their electronic products.

I personally have purchased every top tier package with the exception of the phoenix pack and saber pack because the game was under developed in closed beta and wasn't very fun after a month or so because it seemed very repetitive. So I quit playing this game for about twenty months or so. And while I have a history of being a collector, had a bunch of comic books and sports cards as a kid, had 6 houses, been through 24 different cars, etc., this lying has to stop regardless of PGI's instance of trying to help out customers that are "demanding" the phoenix pack.

PGI wouldn't go through this effort if they gained no money. As a matter of fact, it almost seems like the Founder's event with the first poll was just a clever ploy to set this event up. Pretty smart really, make it seem like PGI is listening to players for easy events, and making them feel like they are helping shape the future of the game, then inserting this money making poll to have all mech packs available (with the exception of founders, but may have a "Steam Early Relase Pack" in lieu of the original founder's pack) for Steam release.

Kudos to PGI for the development of the Founder and Phoenix events to meet their end goal of re-releasing the Phoenix pack with the original purchaser's permission. Almost a case study of marketing psychology at work.

[Domenoth]

Smoked, on 14 May 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

All PHX owners, please vote no...

I think I can sympathize with you, but I can't say I feel the same. I like the Phoenix Mechs, I don't have a motivation to prevent other people from getting the same enjoyment out of them that I do. Keeping other people happy with this game keeps them playing this game. I'd prefer to do anything that keeps players playing.

Edit:
And yes I realize that re-releasing the pack could anger current pack holders thus countering the goodwill gained. It's really a tough decision so I get why PGI isn't making it on their own.

Edited by Domenoth, 14 May 2015 - 06:50 PM.

[Dermot Von Jankmon]

Thunder Child, on 14 May 2015 - 05:47 PM, said:

Huh. I actually thought they had stopped that "limited time" sale.... My mistake. So, since all Mech packages are going to be available for ever and ever and ever, may as well Resell the damned Phoenix mechs.

It wasnt a limited time it was a limited run meaning only 500 of them would be sold...


Also as a top tier phoenix owner, I'm going to be voting yes, cause when it comes down to it as someone else said crying over it being "Limited" when its just a bunch of pixels is petty and childish, grow up most of you are adults some are even older than me (I'm in my late 20s) Stop acting like a 2 year old who doesn't get their way everytime PGI does something you dont like. After all no on FORCES you to play or log on the forums.

[CyborgDragon]

I will probably be voting 'no' on this. Half the reason I bought Phoenix (and the other packages) is for the exclusivity of it. So I'm sorry to all non-Phoenix players, unless the original Phoenix buyers get some sweet bonuses, the package really shouldn't be made available again as that's how it was advertised. I may sound like I'm being biased but I feel the same way about the Founders package... I'm really sad I missed out on it (because I own and love all of those variants) but it should always remain exclusive.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Why are people advocating for PGI to not make money.

If you don't want to play, fine, but why are people actively trying to kill this game. No one is going to pick up this IP if PGI fails.

[Domenoth]

Dermot, on 14 May 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

Stop acting like a 2 year old who doesn't get their way everytime PGI does something you dont like. After all no on FORCES you to play or log on the forums.

Just wanted to point out that the best way to influence people might not be to insult them. I think it could actually have quite the opposite effect...

[Talos7]

I like these themed events, especially for people who have been part of, and supporting, the community for as long as they have.

But, No. Please keep the Phoenix Packs exclusive to the original purchasers.

New Phoenix 'Mech Pack with new 'Mechs, sure. But, the reasons some bought the packages were for the novelty of having something unique. Let's not change that

[Lyoto Machida]

Domenoth, on 14 May 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

I think I can sympathize with you, but I can't say I feel the same. I like the Phoenix Mechs, I don't have a motivation to prevent other people from getting the same enjoyment out of them that I do. Keeping other people happy with this game keeps them playing this game. I'd prefer to do anything that keeps players playing.

Edit:
And yes I realize that re-releasing the pack could anger current pack holders thus countering the goodwill gained. It's really a tough decision so I get why PGI isn't making it on their own.

I doubt denying people the opportunity to buy the Phoenix pack after the fact is going to make or break them in terms of them staying and paying in more to PGI or quitting MWO and taking their money elsewhere.

If this Phoenix pack not getting re-released is the final straw that drives them away, they probably weren't going to be here much longer anyway.

Besides...the Phoenix variants themselves aren't even that great anyway. The call for a "no" vote is just on principle for many people.

Dermot, on 14 May 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

It wasnt a limited time it was a limited run meaning only 500 of them would be sold...


Also as a top tier phoenix owner, I'm going to be voting yes, cause when it comes down to it as someone else said crying over it being "Limited" when its just a bunch of pixels is petty and childish, grow up most of you are adults some are even older than me (I'm in my late 20s) Stop acting like a 2 year old who doesn't get their way everytime PGI does something you dont like. After all no on FORCES you to play or log on the forums.

Daisu Saikoro, on 14 May 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

Why are people advocating for PGI to not make money.

If you don't want to play, fine, but why are people actively trying to kill this game. No one is going to pick up this IP if PGI fails.

Because PGI has clearly shown they can make money in other ways (ie: other mech packs).

Maybe someone's word doesn't mean much to you or Dermot but it does to other people and you'll see that reflected in the vote (if the Phoenix guys make the kill requirement).

If your girlfriend cheated on you, even though you had both agreed to be "exclusive" prior to that, it wouldn't bother you that it was "only her position at the time"??? I guess it IS kind of petty to not allow other people the same enjoyment you once had exclusively...

[Valar13]

PFC Carsten, on 14 May 2015 - 02:04 PM, said:

• all Phoenix medallions will receive a permanent Loyalty Point boost from 2.5% to 5%

So, Phoenix customers have a permanent boost to loyalty points already?? Interesting. And unsettling.

If it were particularly significant I'm sure it would be an issue, but at that rate you'd still have to play 20 games for a 100% boost over one regular game's rewards.

[Talos7]

After reading more of the posts I think a lot of people are missing the point here.
This isn't a cash grab by PGI. (Yes they will benefit from sales, hush)

This is them listening to the fan base. Period

Enough people wanted, and continue to want, the previously released 'Mech packs. PGI is very cleverly letting those who already own the 'Mech packs to decide if they can sell these unique variants again. So when it comes down to it, its up to us as players to decide whether or not we own something that was "limited edition" in the game or to allow others to get it as well.

I personally think it should be voted down, but lets see how the vested fan base votes.

Edited by Talos7, 14 May 2015 - 07:08 PM.

[Domenoth]

Lyoto Machida, on 14 May 2015 - 07:00 PM, said:

I doubt denying people the opportunity to buy the Phoenix pack after the fact is going to make or break them in terms of them staying and paying in more to PGI or quitting MWO and taking their money elsewhere.

If this Phoenix pack not getting re-released is the final straw that drives them away, they probably weren't going to be here much longer anyway.

I'm not a f2p analyst, but I'm pretty sure there's a correlation between buying things and sticking around. Sure they might not leave because they weren't allowed to buy a Phoenix Pack, but allow some time to elapse and now they aren't tied as strongly to the game because they didn't invest when they otherwise wanted to.

Edit:
So yeah, I guess what I'm saying is I think you misunderstood what I meant by keep players playing. I don't mean today, I mean perpetually.

Edited by Domenoth, 14 May 2015 - 07:10 PM.

[Clownwarlord]

I know I already spoke my peice on this, but I am just so disappointed in the vote that we get to take part of ... to sell a package already sold so others can buy it to continue the game. Well I already said I was going to vote yes and I will.

BUT!!!

For crying out load you could have given us a better thing to vote on. That being maybe the second map to be remade? Or maybe what we would rather see PGI work on. Map redesign or CW next phase and re-working?

It seems after thinking about this that PGI is trying to grab some extra cash with out doing any leg work by selling something they said they never would again. It iritates me that they are doing this but oh well, and if they do it to the gold mechs later on I am just going to laugh at those who spent the 500 on those "Once in a lifetime for sale."

[RavenKnight86]

When Phoenix was originally on sale it was offered as a limited time deal. It should remain a limited time deal. Course I also find it funny how some founders are saying they would support a re-release of Phoenix and those against a re-release are acting like children, yet they don't favor re-releasing Founders which I find to fit the same build. It was advertised as limited time only and should be that way. It was the first major purchase I made in MWO and since I've pre-ordered the highest tier of every pack so far except Urby and Resistance 2. Founders and Phoenix were both advertised as limited and should remain as such. That said I also wouldn't be against a pack similar to Phoenix with the same mechs but not the special geometry. Also maybe this pack could have the "Hero" 30% Cbill version be a different or new variant and could entice original Phoenix owners to also buy this pack.

[Frost Lord]

ShinVector, on 14 May 2015 - 06:00 PM, said:

Now thats said... Who the hell would want to run the Locust 1V in the tourny ???
MWO's worst mech ever...

least compertishon

Edited by Frost Lord, 14 May 2015 - 07:21 PM.

[Fobhopper]

Smoked, on 14 May 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

All PHX owners, please vote no. You have the power in your hands to keep PGI honest in this one instance. They have had numberous other sales, limited releases, etc. Case in point, Clan Wave 3 early adopter bonus, where they have "supported" the players by extending dates, etc. I think whenever they changed the terms of the offers of sales, they have always gained financially. Such as the additional variants for resistance 1 mechs if you bought the 2 package. Yes the previous owners of Resistance 1 pack and early purchasers of pack 2 gained an extra item, but the true reason why they did this was to sell more Resistance 2 packs..

Is it wrong for a company to sell items at it's discretion? Certainly not and I wholeheartedly encourage PGI to sell anything and everything at their disposal for whatever price they want to stay in business to keep the game going.

Is it wrong for a company to lie, namely through falsely advertisement, to get results? Most certainly so.

Is it wrong for us to want to keep PGI accountable for their actions? I don't think so. But the only true way for any company to have any real repercussions for any dishonest behavior is through it's sales. But usually the only true diehard fans of a game will spend any considerable amount of time in the forums rather than in game and have these discussions. So it is difficult for most of us to not purchase anything for PGI to feel our discontent with their explicitly deceitful statements regarding terms of sales of their electronic products.

I personally have purchased every top tier package with the exception of the phoenix pack and saber pack because the game was under developed in closed beta and wasn't very fun after a month or so because it seemed very repetitive. So I quit playing this game for about twenty months or so. And while I have a history of being a collector, had a bunch of comic books and sports cards as a kid, had 6 houses, been through 24 different cars, etc., this lying has to stop regardless of PGI's instance of trying to help out customers that are "demanding" the phoenix pack.

PGI wouldn't go through this effort if they gained no money. As a matter of fact, it almost seems like the Founder's event with the first poll was just a clever ploy to set this event up. Pretty smart really, make it seem like PGI is listening to players for easy events, and making them feel like they are helping shape the future of the game, then inserting this money making poll to have all mech packs available (with the exception of founders, but may have a "Steam Early Relase Pack" in lieu of the original founder's pack) for Steam release.

Kudos to PGI for the development of the Founder and Phoenix events to meet their end goal of re-releasing the Phoenix pack with the original purchaser's permission. Almost a case study of marketing psychology at work.

I would say the issue with the special case of the PHX pack is that the game was in a VERY precarious position at the time. After how terrible the founders pack was (in comparison to later packs), and how terrible the game, UI, and most things with the game at the time, you certainly cant blame people for being hesitant to buy the packs.

The other thing with the PHX pack is just how arbitrarily short the sale time was especially at the time of the game. The window was only a couple months, for a mech package that was $80, plus an expansion that cost something like $40 for a game that was STILL in beta was a pretty tall order. Is it really that dishonest of them to bring the package that people have been asking PGI repeatedly to release. So either PGI eschews what its fans want to please people who bought the phoenix package so that they can continue to feel like special little butterflies with the mechs nearly EVERYONE who bought them hates. Or they give the players what they want, to piss off people who want to continue to feel like special butterflies so that they can feel special about themselves with artificial scarcity.

Re-releasing the phoenix pack doesn't take anything way from anyone except for artificial superiority. It doesn't take development away from other mechs being made.