757 replies to this topic

[Surn]

I already avoid the stalker...it has good hitboxes, but no special range.

[Roland09]

What's with you Clammers screaming for Wave 3 refunds and "100 million C-Bill investments" gone to zero?

Weren't you complaining just before that your high-alpha laser vomit builds run oh-so-hot? And now that PGI responds and moves in to alleviate that problem, you still cry your little eyes out?

Maybe there is a mysterious unheard-of Clan, newly arrived to the Inner Sphere? Clan Whine-e Coyote?

[Jess Hazen]

KursedVixen, on 16 May 2015 - 11:12 PM, said:

umm actually they do.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rotary_AC/2


*points to clan diamond sharks*

Edit:wrong link D'oh!


Also a good mech does not a good pilot make.

I stand corrected.

Somebody told me that clan never got rotary ac's, I believed them and have been preaching that for the longest time.

Still RAC is 3062 tech. And is how CUAC's now behave just with nerfed damage...

Roland09, on 16 May 2015 - 11:24 PM, said:

What's with you Clammers screaming for Wave 3 refunds and "100 million C-Bill investments" gone to zero?

Weren't you complaining just before that your high-alpha laser vomit builds run oh-so-hot? And now that PGI responds and moves in to alleviate that problem, you still cry your little eyes out?

Maybe there is a mysterious unheard-of Clan, newly arrived to the Inner Sphere? Clan Whine-e Coyote?

Hey that's not very nice. If anyone is an expert at crying its you. Now behave.

[Roland09]

Jess Hazen, on 16 May 2015 - 11:29 PM, said:

Hey that's not very nice. If anyone is an expert at crying its you. Now behave.

Seen me crying? Especially for refunds, C-Bills, lost life time playing a game I actually enjoy? Where? Show me.







Thought so.

[Quardak]

give sized Hardpoints a chance...and some fixed weapons.

I dont like Mechs with 10+ Quirks ...

Edited by Quardak, 16 May 2015 - 11:47 PM.

[Duke Nedo]

Let's be reasonable... The top dogs on both sides were nerfed, it was needed and it is a step in the right direction towards over all balance. I can live with the nerfs on both sides. The TBR/SCR were nerfed the hardest but to be fair, they were Tier 0 and should now be back on the scale. The TBR-D left arm -5% heat gen is still there, the SCR agility is still there. The cooldown nerfs probably don't matter much since these builds are hot to start with, but the duration really matters.

On the IS side, nothing was really broken, just toned down, but the RVN-2X nerf was uncalled for imo. No big deal. TDR was untouched, and that's the working horse in CW and I think that was a good call. I may change my IS drop deck but I don't have to.

On the Clan side, a bit excessive on duration most likely, but only laser vomit on SCR and TBR was nerfed and a bit mixed up builds are possible. Don't have a full overview how much you can build around the duration penalties with pods, but in any case the HBR was untouched, and for me that is possibly the best Clan chassi for now so I would probably go with 2x HBR, 2x SCR (they can do slightly mixed up loadouts without getting ears).

All in all, the sky is not falling and this mech warrior will not be crying for refunds.

[EvilCow]

They just made a Raven easier to leg?

[KursedVixen]

no the sky is not falling the dropships are.

[Peiper]

Chuanhao, on 16 May 2015 - 07:44 PM, said:

You knew that the nerf was probably coming, obviously since u read the forums.

So why all the outcry now?

Well, Russ did say in NGNG podcasts, at least on two different occasions, that the T-Wolf and Stormcrow were the top end of what they perceived mechs should be at, and that they wouldn't nerf them. They said they may bring others up to their level, but they wouldn't nerf them.

I remember those quotes very specifically, as I love my Timberwolves, and though I agree they don't need positive quirks, they certainly shouldn't be penalized because PGI can't figure out how to do sized hardpoints or other LOGICAL changes.

[Malcolm Decker]

First off, the only reason everyone is using so many lasers is because hit detection on projectiles is horrendous. Even in testing grounds, any weapon that isn't using a ray intersection test (IE lasers) for collision detection has about 66-75% reliability. It gets frustrating when every 3rd or so salvo from your ballistics completely fails to register. If other weapons had better reliability you would see more diversity. Before you can balance a game you need to see how it plays when everything is working 100% of the time.

Second, the devs need to take to heart an important balancing lesson regarding real-time shooter games. You cannot rely on paper stats when trying to evaluate current balance. A clan (non-ultra) AC20 and an AC20 do the same damage on paper but which do you think gets more use in-game? This is not a turn-based game where the outcome of an attack is based on dice rolls, skill checks, and stat values. In game damage application is far more important than raw damage value. That extra damage from a clan laser is worthless if you only have a 0.5 second window in which to apply it. Clan lasers usually waste the majority of their duration burning into the cover their quarry just retreated behind. It's fairly safe to say that clan lasers are worse in every respect than their IS counterparts. The range advantage they briefly enjoyed was narrowed significantly in the previous balance passes and from a distance they are even more likely to spread/miss. The tonnage savings won't even allow enough additional "double" (1.4x) heatsinks to offset the heat increase.

My TBR and SCR have already been collecting dust since the quirkening because there are more competitive options to choose from in the IS stable. Had PGI given the TBR a 3-12% laser duration BONUS it still wouldn't be enough to draw me back to them given the better options on the IS side. The fact that they are continuing to nerf mechs that lost their god status long ago while ignoring truly broken mechs (thunderbolt comes to mind) only drives home the point that they don't fully understand the gameplay they are trying to balance. I think this may be the last straw for a lot of players who are tired of being punished for finding effective builds, running them well, and then having them nerfed because their opponents complain.

Constantly nerfing the new flavor-of-the-month at every patch cycle is not balance, it is an exercise in futility that would make Sisyphus' task look worthwhile in comparison. Furthermore, it only erodes the confidence of prospective customers when the "balancing" is done after the majority of sales have been made and the option for a refund is no longer available.

Edited by Malcolm Decker, 17 May 2015 - 12:22 AM.

[purple231975]

If player are OP, You nerf even the players? I do think you can, good players abandon the game , in favor of children who cry when they break a shoulder, and say, the small laser is OP, broke my shoulder... bah.. i think the game is still unbalanced

[TheCharlatan]

This was long due. Let's see how it plays out.

[KursedVixen]

Nova with 12 er small lasers.

[Reno Blade]

I just can't take people serious who wants to quit/refund for changes to "OP" clan mech quirks.
Guys, Are you just playing laser boat TBR/SCR all day long? You totally forgot to play different mechs or builds?
How about adapting and changing your loadouts and show what you're really made off, eh?

Boating was always a problem in MWO and you knew more nerfs were comming!

Instead of QQ and ragequitting, think of improvements and give them something to work with.

The spirit of Omni pods giving flexibility makes it harder to give certain weapons a boost compared to weapon types.
Or else we could give mechs like the TBR buffs to ERLL and LRM and nerfs to general beam weapons (e.g. MLaser and Lpulse).

If quirks would work like ghost heat, it could help to fix boating, but it would be so complicated that people would QQ even more about the quirks than about ghost heat.

Here is my general suggestion:
I would like to see quirks tied to the equipped weapon.
- If you equip LRM20 on your TBR, you get a bonus to ERLL.
- If you equip 4 or more ERML, your energy quirks will go negative ...
which is similar to:
- TBR have a Ghost heat limit of 3 for ERML ... but thats even harder to understand for many people. (and probably a nightmare to code)

[huskinater]

I feel this has been beaten to death, but I firmly believe that the clan mechs should still have the ability to add or drop Ferro and Endo. You can keep locked crit locations for when the upgrades are on the mech, but not allowing at least the option feels off when you are trying to balance clan mechs against other clan mechs.

Also, the salt is real in this thread. Nerfs happen. They NEED to happen at some point, or we will get serious powercreep (or Superquirking, as it seems to be called here). If you think the nerfs were not done properly, voice your opinion, but please don't be a **** about it.

[Reno Blade]

Peiper, on 16 May 2015 - 10:28 PM, said:

Sized hardpoints, I can't stress it enough. THAT is the solution to the meta/alpha strike build game. It's also makes so many more mechs viable.

Give sized hardpoints a shot! think of all the mechs that would become interesting and useful with them. Some of the clan mechs people don't use would become attractive if others couldn't boat better, and some of the IS mechs would also be more used - like the Awesome, the only mech that should have more than 2 PPC's, etc...

I don't see any change to the TBR and SCR this way.
They boat ML and LPulse now and would still do with sized hardpoints. All other mechs would be "nerfed" by hardpoints.

The idea might be interesting to limit the whole battlefield, but it does not limit boating lots of Lasers.
In some cases it would remove dual gauss and such, but that doesn't seem to be enough to warant the whole system change.

slightly offtopic
My take on boating:
I would take ghost heat further and start with 3 MLaser, 12 SRMs (tubes), 20 LRMs (tubes) and so on.
Then add more internal structure to all mechs, so it's more important to disarm mechs than to one-shot.
Plus no PPC and Gauss can be fired together... but the poll for that was rejected by the players and most people hate ghost heat, so I don't see a chance for this.

[KursedVixen]

I'd like to see you IS guys all say that when they nerf your thunderbolts

my only complaint here is the duration added the cooldown keep those they don't effect me much.

but remove the duration quirks

Edited by KursedVixen, 17 May 2015 - 01:15 AM.

[ThomasAH]

After the IS dropdeck tonnage got reduced to 240(=85+85+35+35) again, encouraging players to use something different than two STK and two FS9 (or one FS9+RVN) is good. With 250 tons there already was a bit more variety (e.g. STK+VTR+HBK+FS9) and I hope to see this back again, maybe even for the clans.

[Tuann]

even LONGER duration on timby an crow lasers ??

Whatever,...

[Aenrion]

So a few days ago everyone was moaning about power creep, now we have it they have toned down the best mechs in the game and people are still throwing their toys out the pram?