309 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

Relax, this is not a big deal. They can change some colors and textures a new title and release a new pack if they want. Anyone interested in this read the whole topic lots of good replies.

Those mechs are in game and no exclusive, the Phoenix Package was exclusive, which included badges etc.

Think it through a bit, they dont want to make a new pack with different paint and badges and rewards without going to the Phoenix owners because then that would look bad get it? If they re release the Phoenix Pack it can look bad to....

They wont be leaving those mechs that are in game for creds without a pack of some sort by the looks of it, so take your pick.

To be clear, having a pack for those mechs, either Phoenix or a new pack, makes sense and it cant be faulted if thats a good move for the games store.

Edited by Johnny Z, 19 May 2015 - 09:51 AM.

[Intrepid]

Apnu, on 19 May 2015 - 08:43 AM, said:

If all you Phoenix "no" voters really wanted to make sure this didn't happen, you should have picked your most meta non-Phoenix mech and trolled the hell out of the solo queue this weekend hunting Phoenix mechs.

I saw bucket loads of Phoenix mechs going crazy this weekend, that tells me the Phoenix community WANTS to have this vote.

You apparently were away for cause and effect class... correlation does not prove causation. The fact that our medallion reward upgrade was tied to the same kill count as a poll was certainly not helpful.

Team Killing/Team Treason are against the ToS - yes, certainly that would have been the best way to prevent the poll, but getting one's account banned in the process is fairly counter productive. Guess that is what trial accounts are for!

Ultimately there was a poll; PGI should honour it.

[Apnu]

Uminix, on 19 May 2015 - 07:28 AM, said:

seriously, I think PGI should sell the phoenix mechs again (NOT the package)

let me elaborate:
rather than packages of ANY kind, sell the 6 Phoenix chassis as ala carte, that way, those who want a Battlemaster could get one, etc.... no one loses the exclusivity of the original pack, but those (like me) that missed out for whatever reason (my computer took a dump on me, and the "balance" had made MW:O nearly unplayable) could still get the mechs and variants, none of the cockpit stuff, camo stuff, prem time, etc, 3 mechs is all, the Phoenix variant, and 2 others to level it up. edit: and I am the biggest phanboi of the Griffin

Make the ala carte option available for the exact same time frame you made the original package for, and do this to equalize the Phoenix Project with ALL of the other post Founders packages.

On the subject of founders and who would spend the money on that BS setup.... at this point I would buy the level high enough to get one choice of mech as I REALLY REALLY REALLY like the look of the Catapult

I like this idea its a fine compromise.

I'm frankly sick of the pantie wadding going on over all this. The was some people tell it, PGI is killing puppies and babies if they sell Phoenix again. That's really off the handle stuff. People need to get a grip on themselves. Sheesh.

On your point of the Founders, I feel your pain. I was a cheapskate about Founders and wish I'd gone Legendary so I could have all 4. I loved that Cat when I played the c-bill version. But not now, I recently sold mine off. Catapults need to go on a diet, they're so freaking huge and the ears are way to big. Still it would be nice to have a c-bill bonus brawling Atlas. Yes I could have a Boar's Head, and I do have a AS7-S but I like the AS7-D.

Edited by Apnu, 19 May 2015 - 09:50 AM.

[Roadkill]

WarHippy, on 19 May 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

There is a difference between going back on your word and asking if it is ok to do something that they originally didn't plan on doing. Nobody is getting screwed you are just being ridiculous.

Wrong. The implication is that if a sufficient number of people vote yes, then they will go back on their word. Otherwise why even bother to ask the question? Especially since it has been previously asked and the answer was a resounding NO.

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I'm not demanding you do anything

Then that comment didn't apply to you, now did it?

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I just question the validity of needing to feel special as an argument.

Need to feel special? Project much?

I want PGI to keep their word. It's that simple. I have a contract of sale and I do not want them to break it. I'm sick and tired of them constantly breaking their promises.

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I get that, but it still makes you look petty, snobbish, and elitest in my opinion.

And encouraging PGI to break their contract of sale makes you look like one of those soccer parents who demands a trophy for every kid. Waaaaah! My kid didn't get a prize!!! Suck it up, buttercup, you can't always have everything.

And yes, I'm completely aware that you already have the Overlord pack. Whether or not you have it doesn't really matter... you're still arguing that everyone should have access to it even though it was sold as a one-time never-to-be-sold-again offer.

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Exclusivity might keep some people around, but it can also keep new people away who feel slighted by the fact that they will never be able to acquire certain things. It is a lose lose situation.

Then they should have thought of that before they offered an exclusive deal. Or maybe they should figure out a way to allow players to buy/trade/sell Mechs. (And yes, I realize that's a lot more complicated than it sounds.)

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If the the owners of the packs vote yes then too bad so sad, and if they vote no then so be it.

You voting yes does not in any way void my contract of sale. So this entire vote is really pointless.

[Apnu]

Intrepid, on 19 May 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

You apparently were away for cause and effect class... correlation does not prove causation. The fact that our medallion reward upgrade was tied to the same kill count as a poll was certainly not helpful.

Team Killing/Team Treason are against the ToS - yes, certainly that would have been the best way to prevent the poll, but getting one's account banned in the process is fairly counter productive. Guess that is what trial accounts are for!

Ultimately there was a poll; PGI should honour it.

Wow, you're reading your own script aren't you?

I never mentioned the medallion, you did. Its not the topic of conversation here, its the vote. The two don't relate. If players don't care about the vote and just want the medallion, they're not going to vote anyway, so there's no point bringing it up except to make yourself feel important.

I never mentioned team killing, you did. Now you're putting words in my mouth and you lecture me about causation and my intelligence? Here's a tip dude, one can meta-mech and hunt (P) mechs that have red doritos over them. Do we have to spell everything out for you?

So arrogant and entitled.

Edited by Apnu, 19 May 2015 - 09:50 AM.

[Roadkill]

JC Daxion, on 19 May 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

and just FYI, companies do this all the time.. sell something for a limited time, then a year or two, or three later and do it again.. a prime example is the Mc donalds Mc rib.. are you pissed off when you go buy one of those, and then they are gone... and wow.. look its 2 years later and its the limited edition mc rib! there is zero difference here.....

Your analogy is false. I don't believe that McDonalds has ever said that they will never sell the McRib again.

PGI did. It was hyped in order to drive sales.

[Wildstreak]

Ted Wayz, on 17 May 2015 - 09:05 PM, said:

Rebuttal point by point.

First, no pack can contain an unseen without Harmony Gold's permission. So point 1 is moot.

Second, infuse more interest? Then why didn't they buy it the first time? Not a big fan of re-do's for whiners that could have but didn't. Wish I had bought more Beta and Unlimited Magic cards. Doesn't mean I am hounding WoC to reprint Mox's.

Third, do you really think people are that hot for a Battlemaster?

Fourth, they haven't said they would, why do you think they will when they are obligated to do nothing?

Fifth, try looking into the future. You own a limited commodity that doesn't currently have a market. But that doesn't mean it won't in the future. I am not so quick to devalue assets.

If you haven't noticed PGI is in the midst of a cash grab as they get ready for Steam. They are looking for a quick way to make cash WITHOUT ADDING CONTENT by asking people with a limited edition to give up their rights. Not only give up their rights but do so without any thought of compensation. It is like destroying all the original Picasso's and offering everyone prints.

That is my Overlord opinion.

2 - Interest from those who were not playing MWO when Phoenix was offered so they missed out compared to every pack offered from Clan I on that are still available. This is not a CCG. Successful online games are usually re-offering their versions of packs if not all the time.

3 - You never know.

4 - There is a valid item here in the Shadow Hawks. Why reoffer the original 3 when 2 of those are in the Mastery pack? If they want to make money, they should redo one so getting both does not duplicate what you get.

5 - How does it get devalued? Did you get Gold Phoenix Mechs?

@stjobe, they could always remove the Flame pattern from the new offering instead adding Faction patterns & colors and giving those Faction patterns to original buyers.

[Ridir Semii]

Roadkill, on 19 May 2015 - 09:46 AM, said:

Your analogy is false. I don't believe that McDonalds has ever said that they will never sell the McRib again.

PGI did. It was hyped in order to drive sales.

I worked for McOpCo (McDOnald's Operations Corporation) for a while, in some areas the McRib is a permanent menu item, as are pizza and tacos, in the right demographic/ geographic regions. just to clarify this "comparison by reference"

Any large company will have varied products geographically that are limited, Mickey D's for example releases the limited McRib in your area to see if sales will jump during the entire sales event. In most areas, the sales drop to near zero after a couple of weeks, and EVERY (I worked for McD's a lot: greater than 10 stores, from midwest to west coast) store I worked in, nearly half of the meat order ended up sold in bulk to the employees before the company lost money on them

[Roadkill]

Uminix, on 19 May 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

Any large company will have varied products geographically that are limited

The MWO equivalent would be the Trial Mechs. League of Legends has a similar mechanic for their heroes.

You can play these mechs/heroes for free for a while, but then they rotate out and a different set becomes available. If you really really liked one of them, you have to buy it in order to play it all the time.

[stjobe]

Wildstreak, on 19 May 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

@stjobe, they could always remove the Flame pattern from the new offering instead adding Faction patterns & colors and giving those Faction patterns to original buyers.

The "now-it's-exclusive-now-it's-not" Flame "Hotrod" pattern is already available to everyone with MC. They've already gone back on their word there, see my post here for how they changed the wording once the stretch goal was met.

As for the 'mechs, let me quote the Phoenix FAQ for the third time:

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Q: How are the Phoenix Battlemechs cosmetically and functionally different from the Mechs already in-game?
A: The Phoenix Variants of each Project Phoenix Battlemech comes packed with the following cosmetic and functional perks:
Unique and Exclusive Custom Designed Exterior
30% C-Bill boost
10% Loyalty Point Boost
Important! These Phoenix Variants will NEVER again be available to purchase or to unlock once the sale offer has ended.

The relevant part is the last line:

"Important! These Phoenix Variants will NEVER again be available to purchase or to unlock once the sale offer has ended."

That's PGI's own words, in the official FAQ on the package. How they can ask to sell them again is beyond me, especially as they've already asked once before and we said no then as well.

[Ridir Semii]

Roadkill, on 19 May 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

The MWO equivalent would be the Trial Mechs. League of Legends has a similar mechanic for their heroes.

You can play these mechs/heroes for free for a while, but then they rotate out and a different set becomes available. If you really really liked one of them, you have to buy it in order to play it all the time.

I wasn't trying to call you out on this Roadkill, I was pointing out what you said, because you hit the layman's wording in the bull's eye.

[Lokesh]

I'd like to see it offered again with a different variant given the phoenix treatment. That way the original buyers retain something unique.

This does not seem to be their intention and past precedent suggests they won't (they re-released the operation 24 medallion rather than making it year specific). It really is okay for people to have something unique that will never be seen again.

I will be voting no.

[HammerMaster]

1st point:

"Important! These Phoenix Variants will NEVER again be available to purchase or to unlock once the sale offer has ended."

So...what happened to this? It's not the end of the world but was this not a selling point.

I'm gonna vote yes IF there is a delineation between my ORIGINAL Phoenix pack purchase and the Johnny Come Lately Purchasers. Does not matter what but something. If not I will abstain from vote.

Edited by HammerMaster, 19 May 2015 - 10:46 AM.

[WarHippy]

Roadkill, on 19 May 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

Wrong. The implication is that if a sufficient number of people vote yes, then they will go back on their word. Otherwise why even bother to ask the question? Especially since it has been previously asked and the answer was a resounding NO.

Like I said to the other guy do you have a link to that poll? I don't remember a poll, but that doesn't mean I didn't miss it. I'm also curious if it is another one of the poorly worded, short time to vote, and low visibility polls that PGI is so fond of that has required revotes on other topics.

Roadkill, on 19 May 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

Then that comment didn't apply to you, now did it?

Well your entire comment was quoting me so I assumed it applied to me if not others as well, but hey whatever.

Roadkill, on 19 May 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

Need to feel special? Project much?

"I enjoy having things in games that others can no longer obtain." Projection or calling it like I see it?

Roadkill, on 19 May 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

I want PGI to keep their word. It's that simple. I have a contract of sale and I do not want them to break it. I'm sick and tired of them constantly breaking their promises.

Fair enough.

Roadkill, on 19 May 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

And encouraging PGI to break their contract of sale makes you look like one of those soccer parents who demands a trophy for every kid. Waaaaah! My kid didn't get a prize!!! Suck it up, buttercup, you can't always have everything.

Thats a bit of a stretch, but sure you can think that of me despite it being a terrible analogy.

Roadkill, on 19 May 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

And yes, I'm completely aware that you already have the Overlord pack. Whether or not you have it doesn't really matter... you're still arguing that everyone should have access to it even though it was sold as a one-time never-to-be-sold-again offer.

They are just giving us the option to let them do it. Vote no if that makes you feel better I won't hold it against you, nor should anyone else, but its hardly something to get so worked up over.

Roadkill, on 19 May 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

Then they should have thought of that before they offered an exclusive deal. Or maybe they should figure out a way to allow players to buy/trade/sell Mechs. (And yes, I realize that's a lot more complicated than it sounds.)

Maybe they did think of that before but IGP didn't let them? I'm not trying to give them a pass because I don't think IGP was fully to blame for things, but things are different now and maybe we should consider giving them a chance to adjust mistakes from the past like when they made the Phoenix pack a limited time thing.

Roadkill, on 19 May 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

You voting yes does not in any way void my contract of sale. So this entire vote is really pointless.

Perhaps, but I doubt anyone is going to care enough to try and do anything about it should it get a yes vote no matter how angry they are.

[stjobe]

HammerMaster, on 19 May 2015 - 10:45 AM, said:

I'm gonna vote yes IF there is a delineation between my ORIGINAL Phoenix pack purchase and the Johnny Come Lately Purchasers. Does not matter what but something. If not I will abstain from vote.

The poll is simply
YES - reopen the Phoenix pack.
NO - don't reopen the Phoenix pack.

I suggest you don't abstain but instead vote NO, because there's not going to be any difference at all if they get their way. The "NEVER again [...] available to purchase or to unlock" 'mechs will be available again if you don't make your voice heard.

Edited by stjobe, 19 May 2015 - 10:56 AM.

[bossclan]

Gonna vote yes for this because i would enjoy the target practice from all those new PP owners.
This overlord just likes to shoot mechs.

[Krigherren]

My vote will be a resounding no unless they happen to offer something fairly spectacular to the initial purchasers for the re-release of the package, which they haven't as of yet. It's really, really shady to go and offer the package stating that it will NEVER available for sale again, then to go and pull this stunt. No, just no. I don't care how much people want it now (???), nor how much additional funds it could bring (???). There's already plenty of cash sources in the game with MC, Hero mechs and the frequently released packaged deals. Which every new chassis seems to come in.. as opposed to, you know, just giving us the damned mechs like they used to. So yeah, no, screw that. Part of what made the package alluring was it's proclaimed exclusivity. Take that away and you have.. what? A nice, large package of low-tier chassis? A loyalty points boost and accompanying items for a game-mode that is effectively bunk at the moment? All of that to be made available for purchase yet again for the low, low cost of crapping all over that promise made to the initial purchasers of the package.

[Roadkill]

WarHippy, on 19 May 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

Like I said to the other guy do you have a link to that poll? I don't remember a poll, but that doesn't mean I didn't miss it. I'm also curious if it is another one of the poorly worded, short time to vote, and low visibility polls that PGI is so fond of that has required revotes on other topics.

I remember the poll, but don't have a link. Sorry. I'm apparently terrible at using forum search, because I can never find things after the fact. I'm frankly amazed at how quickly other people can find things.

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Well your entire comment was quoting me so I assumed it applied to me if not others as well, but hey whatever.

It's difficult to make that distinction, but that's actually what I was trying to do with that phrasing. Only the first paragraph was a direct response to you.

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"I enjoy having things in games that others can no longer obtain." Projection or calling it like I see it?

Conveniently edited. I also said that I enjoy seeing others with things in the game that I can no longer get. In other words, I enjoy seeing unique things in the game. It gives the game more character for there to be cool and interesting things in it. But it has nothing to do we me or anyone else "feeling special" which was your projection.

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Thats a bit of a stretch, but sure you can think that of me despite it being a terrible analogy.
They are just giving us the option to let them do it. Vote no if that makes you feel better I won't hold it against you, nor should anyone else, but its hardly something to get so worked up over.

This is a terrible analogy, but somehow wanting PGI to play by their own rules makes me elitist? O.o

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Maybe they did think of that before but IGP didn't let them? I'm not trying to give them a pass because I don't think IGP was fully to blame for things, but things are different now and maybe we should consider giving them a chance to adjust mistakes from the past like when they made the Phoenix pack a limited time thing.

But that's really not my problem, is it? I bought a product for an agreed upon price with agreed upon conditions. Now they want to retroactively change that sale.

Why re-open Phoenix? Why not create a Phoenix II?

Because lazy? Because desperate? Because compulsive liars?

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Perhaps, but I doubt anyone is going to care enough to try and do anything about it should it get a yes vote no matter how angry they are.

Depends on what you mean by "anything." I will absolutely do "something" if they open up the Phoenix packages for sale again. Never means never.

[Malleus011]

As a number of other posters have mentioned with variations - I'd be happy to reopen Phoenix if any gesture was made towards making the original content unique - changing the skins, changing the C-Bill bonus variant, shuffling the variants, etc.

Make Phoenix II.

Edited by Malleus011, 19 May 2015 - 11:11 AM.

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

delete

Edited by Asian Tupac, 19 May 2015 - 11:18 AM.