309 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

Darth Bane001, on 18 May 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:

I rather this not be free to play I rather see this go retail and get a real story with mp with it. f2p model is ruining gaming.




Use the money for what? More badly designed maps and mechs with quirks up the arse or nerfed to being not fun to play?

I think the player base is very naive

I don't honestly know but I don't think PGI is holding back a good mechwarrior game, how are their rights applied?

Maps are getting another pass, quirks and ghost heat raise TTK which I think is grand.

Naive probably but still playing regardless of the flaws.

[Kyynele]

Will vote no.

Otherwise, PGI can just make votes whenever they feel like doing things they promised not to do. If you say something is exclusive and limited time, then it is exclusive and limited time, or nothing you say is worth anything.

Why is this even a thing? Why were the Founders asked which map they want to get fixed, why weren't they asked if they're sure they don't want to get screwed? Am I supposed to feel excited to be a part of making something I paid premium for being exclusive to be turned into a standard package?

I don't really care about the package itself, and won't honestly care if it's going to be sold again or not, this whole thing is just more borderline insulting than respectful. So, the "NO" I will be voting, is not really "no, I don't want other people to have my special mechs", it's "no, PGI, stop doing stupid **** like this."

[Alex Morgaine]

Eh, 120 bucks for four mechs (1 of each chassis, no more) plus a pile of mc(20k iirc). Would anyone even buy into that if founder options were opened again? For 3 mechs people universally call(or say are near) useless, and one that lives by virtue of it's weapon quirks? Remember, founder options was 40 bucks for a badge(and some mc iirc?), 80 for 1 mech(and more mc), and 120 for the big deal.you want to open it again? I say ok, who will actually pay clan level for 4 lv1 tech units you could get for probably 60 bucks(or less?) worth of mc?

Personally I took a break during the Phoenix event. I don't have the funds to throw at it(or R2) sadly.

[Igorius]

Kyynele, on 18 May 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

I don't really care about the package itself, and won't honestly care if it's going to be sold again or not, this whole thing is just more borderline insulting than respectful. So, the "NO" I will be voting, is not really "no, I don't want other people to have my special mechs", it's "no, PGI, stop doing stupid **** like this."

Agree with you 100%. I will be voting no, for the simple fact that if recycling 1+ year old sales content counts as a plan of sustaining the game, then it is already beyond doomed.

Besides, what is the point of selling packs of 'Mechs that are already widely available/used? Put the MC packs on sale, give one of the hanging items with a bonus % for the different MC levels available. Boom, cash flow with special pixels for those who want them. I love my 'Hawk, but the Phoenix variant isn't one to phone home about, and the special variants are easily trumped by many of the other packs and Hero Mechs available.

[Ano]

I wasn't around when the Phoenix packs were being sold so I had to look them up on the wiki. From the looks of it, it's the same special geometry mechs + bonus stuff + mechbays that they've used on subsequent packs.

Perhaps one option would be to sell the packs, but use regular-geometry mechs (but with the various bonuses) instead? That would still preserve the original Phoenix packs' specialness, but still allow newer players to buy a grab-bag of classic mechs in pack form.

[Hillslam]

Hillslam, on 15 May 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

its real simple:

You sell me something telling me its a one-time offer, then you keep your mutherf**king word.

[zolop]

I would pass on new pheonix packs too because (I think that was original point of this thread?)

MC Prices for colors, mechs and patterns in this game are way over-pirced and so are the mech bundles. I know how that is how PGI is making their money, but I'd rather see them work on creating a better CW and public play game instead. The CW maps are too small and do not provide enough strategic depth. CW missions are too focused on "Kill all the enemy players" instead of completing strategic goals, with invasion at least having multiple goals besides kill all the enemy players.

If the first pheonix pack was re-released I would not care either way on that though.

Edited by zolop, 18 May 2015 - 07:01 PM.

[Neutron IX]

I appreciate the diverse quality of the responses, and the ongoing respectful dialogue.

It's interesting to me how varied our takes as Phoenix owners on all this are.

Hopefully potential voters who were on the fence about which way to vote found some good food for thought in this thread, and feel more comfortable with their own opinions on the matter.

I also hope that whatever the outcome, we move forward without too much chaos. *fingers crossed*

Cheers!

-Rip

[Neutron IX]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 May 2015 - 03:27 AM, said:

At this point in the time Line the Marauder II is a Dragoon only Mech. Possibly Barber's Marauders II as well, but I thing that comes a little later.

True enough, but they started bending the timeline a wee bit with Clan Pack III, and they've bent the faction availability several times over already, so I wouldn't mind seeing it included. Of the remaining possible Unseen Assaults, it's my personal favorite.

Kyocera, on 18 May 2015 - 03:51 AM, said:

And the official Marauder reseens are beyond hideous.
But hey it's been a while since we had one of these threads.
p.s. I'm voting yes.

Quoting Kyocera here to address all the "But HG won't ever" responses I got in one fell swoop. I understand that HG will not likely (read basically ever) release the Unseen artwork for use by PGI, and, like Kyocera, I don't particularly care for the Reseen artwork. That being said, I still would like to see a new Phoenix pack with perhaps some fresh takes on the mechs so many of us know and love. And the reason I feel safe trusting PGI with re-inventing the look of a mech, while staying moderately true to the original in a way that may circumvent potential legal issues you ask?...





Some of you may recognize this mech...unless you only know it from MWO, which will mean you very likely do not...and I believe that to be a good thing.

As for most of the rest of the responses, I don't want to rehash things that have already been said too much, but once again, thanks everyone for participating!

Cheers!

-Rip

*Edited because that junk was feeling all sorts of cramped up in there...

Edited by Rip Snorgan, 18 May 2015 - 08:42 PM.

[Akaraut]

I vote yes, because why not. I lose nothing if other people can buy it too.

Besides, pgi could have just ignored us and offered it again anyway, but they instead are giving us a vote on it. As this has already had a no vote before, i can see this as the final poll for this pack to stay exclusive or not.

Edited by Akaraut, 18 May 2015 - 08:56 PM.

[Neutron IX]

Reptilizer, on 18 May 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

Both arguments base on flawed logic.

• If you want them to make new content, do not let them sell old stuff twice. No need to make new stuff if you can get cash for already existing "limited" models. Cash grab.
  
• If you make stuff that was once sold under the label "limited edition" essentially unlimited at any point, who will buy in other "limited editions" then? The people who invested because of the limited character of those mechs (gold mechs anyone?) for sure will not fall for the ruse a second time.

I do not have a clear opinion myself to be honest, but those two arguments you field are in fact arguments against the re-opening of the sale.

I disagree with your take here, but thanks for the response!

1). Continued sales of old content has not, to date hindered development of new content. Clan Invasion pack is still on sale for example. I view reopening the Phoenix packs as an extension of this same idea. Have all the packs (minus the Founders in my opinion personally) be available in the store all the time.

2). Yes, and that's a fair enough viewpoint, though for my part, I'm approaching this from the perspective that, I don't care personally for the existence of "exclusive" or "limited" content. I did not purchase my own Phoenix pack because of those descriptions. I bought it because I'm a huge fan of the game, and I wanted to support it, as well as that I just wanted the content, period. But I recognize that's my perspective, and that there isn't necessarily a "right" or "wrong" way to see it on this second point. As is pointed out elsewhere in this thread, "limited" does not always have to mean available only once and then gone forever. I know that it was described this way at one time in this instance (though everything everyone links so far indicates this only for the (P) variants themselves), but I personally would welcome the content being opened up to more players.

This is one of those instances where we can both be "right", since we're dealing in opinions.

Vandul, on 18 May 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

Change the camo/skins, give the (P) designated mechs a new designator. I would recommend ® for 'Re-issue' and we are golden.

I actually really like this version of the idea. Re-release the Phoenix pack as a "Phoenix Resistance" pack. Duplicate the Phoenix pack except give the (P) variants the Resistance skin, and then gift the original Phoenix owners Resistance versions of the content as well?

Something along those lines could be cool in my mind, for possibly appealing to all sides?

[Neutron IX]

Uminix, on 18 May 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

https://boardgamegee...ech-rpg-tactics
http://kotaku.com/fi...-game-504988339
https://www.kickstar...h-rpg-tacticstm

how about that, using the marauder, phoenix hawk and warhammer.... there goes 3 of the BEST unseen back in use by the "opposition"

It is nice of HG to make us such high quality minis for our TT games though eh?

[Thunder Child]

Can I get a Founders Package please? I missed out on buying that one, so now I want to buy it!

Same argument that is being used for Phoenix, right? So why NOT apply it to Founders. Sure, change the name perhaps, but re-release the content..... And in case anyone is wondering why the hell I would want a pack that is so horribly priced compared to the other packs? The Geometry. I want that Atlas, Hunchback, and Catapult (Jenner, I'm meh about).

So, since the Phoenix pack (of which I am an Overlord owner, but not Sabre) is being made available again, so should the Founders Pack, since I missed out on it and want to throw money at PGI.

[Neutron IX]

Thunder Child, on 18 May 2015 - 08:23 PM, said:

Can I get a Founders Package please? I missed out on buying that one, so now I want to buy it!

Same argument that is being used for Phoenix, right? So why NOT apply it to Founders. Sure, change the name perhaps, but re-release the content..... And in case anyone is wondering why the hell I would want a pack that is so horribly priced compared to the other packs? The Geometry. I want that Atlas, Hunchback, and Catapult (Jenner, I'm meh about).

So, since the Phoenix pack (of which I am an Overlord owner, but not Sabre) is being made available again, so should the Founders Pack, since I missed out on it and want to throw money at PGI.

Hey, I wouldn't frown on it, but I'll leave it up to the Founders to debate.

I personally tend toward less exclusivity in most everything. What can I say? I'm an inclusive guy!

[Thunder Child]

Rip Snorgan, on 18 May 2015 - 08:26 PM, said:

Hey, I wouldn't frown on it, but I'll leave it up to the Founders to debate.

I personally tend toward less exclusivity in most everything. What can I say? I'm an inclusive guy!

Fair enough. If PGI really wanted to go crazy with the money making, they could do Skins like in those MOBA games. Hey look, this Atlas is Classy. Yours for only 20 bucks!

But even if they just made small adjustments. Look at the AS7-S Loyalty skin. Huge amount of Urbies sold so people could get that (though I wish I could sell my duplicate Loyalty mechs....)

So my vote is not to just put the Phoenix pack on Sale, but to sell alternate designs, like Different Cent Shields, or Stylised Cannon Mounts for Hunchies. LONG BARRELED ACs FOR JAGERS!!!. Etc.

[Neutron IX]

Thunder Child, on 18 May 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

Fair enough. If PGI really wanted to go crazy with the money making, they could do Skins like in those MOBA games. Hey look, this Atlas is Classy. Yours for only 20 bucks!

But even if they just made small adjustments. Look at the AS7-S Loyalty skin. Huge amount of Urbies sold so people could get that (though I wish I could sell my duplicate Loyalty mechs....)

So my vote is not to just put the Phoenix pack on Sale, but to sell alternate designs, like Different Cent Shields, or Stylised Cannon Mounts for Hunchies. LONG BARRELED ACs FOR JAGERS!!!. Etc.

Oh man, this times 1000!

I want my long barreled weapons back!

Seriously, as you read this, look to your left at that glorious Raven.

I miss that.

[Reptilizer]

Dino Might, on 18 May 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

You are comparing digital robots (once we buy them, they are worthless, you cannot trade or resell them) to real world goods. Money in the real world is fiat currency, I agree, but you are using a strawman comparing it to the mechs. Real world goods, which money is used to trade for, are limited in quantity - a zero-sum system; therefore, when you inflate the amount of money, because the goods it is traded for are finite, the money becomes worth less.

In our system, there is no exchange of mechs back for money or any other goods. So inflating the number of (P) mechs does NOTHING. They were worthless to begin with. You can't get anything back from them, other than the enjoyment of playing them, which should not be hindered, unless you are a trollish little child who doesn't want anyone to get what you have.

I think you missed the point.
I compared our digital robots to currency. Directly. But you can do it also with any digital good if you want - like software downloads - that is essentially unlimited in quantity but still has a defined worth because of artificial "shortages" induced by the supplier and regulated through pricing.

Also you are dead wrong on there being no exchange of mechs for money.
In the game, this is true, but we all live in the real world, right?
Sooo, how much would you pay for an account with founders and phoenix mechs?
You get the login data, someone gets the money. Sounds to me like such a login actually HAS some worth.
Everything else is naive.

[CHH Badkarma]

Rip Snorgan, on 18 May 2015 - 08:26 PM, said:

Hey, I wouldn't frown on it, but I'll leave it up to the Founders to debate.

I personally tend toward less exclusivity in most everything. What can I say? I'm an inclusive guy!

What a nice guy! while you are at it, I am sure some of us have some bills we wouldn't mind you paying for us

[Neutron IX]

Reptilizer, on 19 May 2015 - 12:10 AM, said:

I think you missed the point.
I compared our digital robots to currency. Directly. But you can do it also with any digital good if you want - like software downloads - that is essentially unlimited in quantity but still has a defined worth because of artificial "shortages" induced by the supplier and regulated through pricing.

Also you are dead wrong on there being no exchange of mechs for money.
In the game, this is true, but we all live in the real world, right?
Sooo, how much would you pay for an account with founders and phoenix mechs?
You get the login data, someone gets the money. Sounds to me like such a login actually HAS some worth.
Everything else is naive.

Something to keep in mind...from the Terms of Use.

"Unless otherwise expressly authorized by us in writing, you agree not to

1. copy, modify, rent, lease, loan, sell, assign, sublicense, grant a security interest in or otherwise transfer any right or interest in Our Content"

Soooo...

CHH Badkarma, on 19 May 2015 - 12:14 AM, said:

What a nice guy! while you are at it, I am sure some of us have some bills we wouldn't mind you paying for us

Hehe, had I the money to do so Brother, I'd hook it up!

[Sjorpha]

Make new badges and a new skin and special geometry for the hero variants in the re-released phoenix pack, so that the original special mechs are still exclusive to those who bought the pack the first time.