309 replies to this topic

[Heffay]

I don't know how I'm going to vote yet. I might not vote at all. Hopefully they'll have a yes/no/abstain vote option.

[Torric]

Tom Sawyer, on 18 May 2015 - 04:07 AM, said:

I am going to vote yes. I bought the overlord package. Yes I understand people are howling about exclusive rights, false marketing, it was meant to be unique. I do not want others to have my special toy.

Seriously though will allowing people a chance to buy something again cause the game to fail? Will your computer explode? If there are too many phoenix mechs will your own refuse to power up?

Its A GAME. Digital ones and zeros. No tangible hard substance with value like real estate or gold. It maybe a crap game in many ways but I believe PGI is trying to fix it. If people are paying TANGIBLE money for ones and zero's it might lead to something getting fixed and keeping the game running so be it.

Thanks for completely mising the point. This is not about "but imaa soo special snowflake duhr", this is about breaking "promises" and lazy recycling of content.

Also, wtf Poll, it would have to be unanimous to have any meaning...

[Ridir Semii]

so just to put the harmony gold/ unseen garbage to rest, do a google search, robotech is back up and running in TT form and many of the unseen can be seen again, if you move over to robotech instead of Battletech....

I would like to claim this is not true, but when it is starting to take up the gaming tables at the local gameshop from Battletech, warhammer 40k, and the like, not to mention running the M:TG players out.... please guys, as much as we want those mechs, it is not only unlikely, but more probably an impossibility at this point

[Malleus011]

Rebuilding Phoenix seems like PGI's best option.

Shuffle the variants - imagine the cash they could make with something like this:

LCT-1E(X)
LCT-3M
LCT-3S

GRF-2N(X)
GRF-1S
GRF-3M

TDR-9S(X)
TDR-5SS
TDR-5SE

BLR-2C(X)
BLR-3S
BLR-3M

Plus four new forum titles/badges, new exclusive paint, and re-use the geometry on the new chassis.

As an added bonus, offer a hero-only pack to current Phoenix owners ...

Profit.

[WarHippy]

Malleus011, on 18 May 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:

This is the opposite of a persuasive argument, sir. The guys who feel like they should vote 'No' believe they have legitimate reasons for doing so. You might not agree with them, but calling them snobs and insulting them will do nothing to bring them around to your way of thinking - in fact, will likely cause them to become more stubborn in their opposition because you've insulted their position instead of engaging it.

It isn't any different than the guy a page or two back that more or less said anyone not voting no is crazy/dumb. That kind of talk is par for the coarse, and with many in this community being stubborn to begin with I doubt we are going to see emuch fluctuattion in sides once the lines have been drawn.

Malleus011, on 18 May 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:

PGI clearly stated that Phoenix was a limited time offer. They are asking those of us who purchased Phoenix for our permission for them to change that. There's nothing wrong with saying 'No'. It doesn't make a player selfish, or entitled, or in any way bad or wrong. PGI offered us a deal on certain terms, which we accepted. Holding them to their word is not wrong.

Nor does saying yes hurt anyone or make them wrong.

Malleus011, on 18 May 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:

That being said, there's no harm in their asking us for our permission to re-open the sale of Phoenix Packs. Our voting 'Yes' to reopen Phoenix would be an act of generosity and kindness on the park of Phoenix pack owners.

That comes off as rather condescending. I can see it now where we end up voting yes and then we have people constantly bringing up how generous and kind they are for allowing the plebs to have access to that super important exclusive content.

Malleus011, on 18 May 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:

St. Jobe is perfectly right to say that he bought an exclusive pack, and that nobody else should be allowed to purchase it - because that was the deal PGI made when we paid them money for this content. That doesn't make him a bad person, or selfish. He's just happy with the terms of the deal and sees no reason why he should generously give up his rights to exclusive content.

StJobe is free to give his opinion, but he seems rather spiteful under these circumstances.

Malleus011, on 18 May 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:

IMHO, the only way PGI can hope to do this is to alter the content. Even if only 10% of PP owners vote no, that's 10% of a paying customer base, whom they would be defrauding by changing the PP exclusivity. Altering the content is the only way I can see that they can appease players like St Jobe and still sell PPs to new customers.

That 10% would most likely be replaced by customers who would be excited to have access to something they didn't have a chance to get for whatever reason. Either way it could be good or bad for PGI and whatever the majority of voters in the case decide is what they should do and leave it at that.

Malleus011, on 18 May 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:

Really, they should be figuring out what incentives they can offer PP owners to encourage them to vote yes, if they want to sell this content again. Give the 'No' voters an incentive to change their minds.

How much and what do they have to give you in order to bribe your yes vote?

Edited by WarHippy, 18 May 2015 - 01:39 PM.

[Ridir Semii]

https://boardgamegee...ech-rpg-tactics
http://kotaku.com/fi...-game-504988339
https://www.kickstar...h-rpg-tacticstm

how about that, using the marauder, phoenix hawk and warhammer.... there goes 3 of the BEST unseen back in use by the "opposition"

[Richard Hazen]

Whats a phoenix pack? New and dunno what this is about.

Edited by Deimos Alpha, 18 May 2015 - 01:54 PM.

[Whaler]

I will buy it! If they let us...

[Roadkill]

WarHippy, on 18 May 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

StJobe is free to give his opinion, but he seems rather spiteful under these circumstances.

Why? Because he (and I) want to hold PGI to the terms of the deal we agreed to when we purchased the Phoenix pack? Because we're tired of PGI going back on their word over and over again, screwing the very players who backed them in the first place?

Those of you who are demanding we vote yes... get over yourselves. This has nothing to do with those of you who want the Phoenix pack but either didn't or couldn't get it when it came out. You didn't get it for whatever reason. I don't care what those reasons are because they are irrelevant.

The Founders and Phoenix packs were advertised as things that would be available for a short time and then never again. You may have chosen not to buy them, but I chose to buy them in part because of that limited availability. I enjoy having things in games that others can no longer obtain. I enjoy seeing others in games who have things that I can no longer get. It's part of what makes playing the game for a long time cool - even though they cannot be traded or given to anyone, those old things are collectible.

The (P) Mechs, their camos, the titles, the badges... all off limits. That's what we purchased, and PGI cannot change that contract of sale after the fact unless they're also willing to refund our money with no negative consequences. Really the only thing about those packs that has any lasting value is the fact that they're unique and no longer obtainable.

[Brimbooze]

kesmai, on 18 May 2015 - 03:47 AM, said:

Nope Joseph. A limited time offer is just that: limited. Don't use sophism on things that are obvious.
edit: That is the reason why pgi asks the phoenix buyers. They want to assure there's no legal trouble with the fact the sale was 'limited time' only.

Like the McRib that McDonalds keeps offering for a "limited time only" yet keeps bringing back?

Limited Time means just that, the time it will be available for sale will be limited. How that time is limited is up to them. They could have it for sale 9 months out of the year and still call it limited. If they sold it, removed if for a few years then began selling it permanently it was still available for a limited time when you originally bought it.

[Malleus011]

WarHippy, on 18 May 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

That 10% would most likely be replaced by customers who would be excited to have access to something they didn't have a chance to get for whatever reason. Either way it could be good or bad for PGI and whatever the majority of voters in the case decide is what they should do and leave it at that.

PGI's customer base isn't so large that they can afford to offend such a large number of paying customers, IMHO. Yes, they would get new sales from re-offering Phoenix, but would that be enough to offset the drop in revenue of the next 'mech pack, and the one after that?

WarHippy, on 18 May 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

How much and what do they have to give you in order to bribe your yes vote?

I don't want a bribe for my yes vote, and I can't think of any reasonable offer that would change my mind.

In my opinion, the fairest thing they can do is repackage Phoenix, changing it enough to leave the old content unique, while still allowing new players the option to buy a new, slightly altered 'second wave' Phoenix Pack. If they can't or won't offer that as an option, I'll likely vote no. Partly because I do like having old school, exclusive content, and partly as a firewall for Founders.

... and Brimbooze:

"Important! These Phoenix Variants will NEVER again be available to purchase or to unlock once the sale offer has ended."

That does kind of say 'never again be available for purchase' ...

Edited by Malleus011, 18 May 2015 - 02:07 PM.

[Heffay]

Roadkill, on 18 May 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

The Founders and Phoenix packs were advertised as things that would be available for a short time and then never again. You may have chosen not to buy them, but I chose to buy them in part because of that limited availability. I enjoy having things in games that others can no longer obtain. I enjoy seeing others in games who have things that I can no longer get. It's part of what makes playing the game for a long time cool - even though they cannot be traded or given to anyone, those old things are collectible.

You make a good point, and the limited availability is one of the things that enticed me as well. I think I am gaining clarity on how I will vote. Thank you.

[Brimbooze]

Malleus011, on 18 May 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

... and Brimbooze:

"Important! These Phoenix Variants will NEVER again be available to purchase or to unlock once the sale offer has ended."

That does kind of say 'never again be available for purchase' ...

I wasn't addressing that. I was talking directly to the guy saying limited time offer means it can't be for sale again.

Directly stating that it'll never be available again is different from saying it's a limited time offer. But if you're going to use that as justification use that line not the "it's a limited time offer so it can never be available again"

[Dino Might]

Reptilizer, on 18 May 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

Just for fun:

• Everything one is willing to give (pay) something for in time or money is actually by definition a commoditiy with value for trade.
  
• Money itself is nowadays what you could call a virtual commodity. The numbers at our bank accounts do not actually exist in real world cash (or gold) anymore.
  
• More people getting more money because the national bank decides to do so does actually not limit your access to your money.
  
• BUT what it does is devaluate your money.
  
• Inflation is a *****. Childish much?

Aside from this analogy, reading this thread brings me slowly to the conclusion that it would actually be a really bad idea to allow PGI another sale of phoenix.


Money for content is cool. Money for devaluating stuff and reselling existing content (perhaps once more as a "once i a lifetime" event) may be nice for PGI but ultimately is detrimental to the game.

You are comparing digital robots (once we buy them, they are worthless, you cannot trade or resell them) to real world goods. Money in the real world is fiat currency, I agree, but you are using a strawman comparing it to the mechs. Real world goods, which money is used to trade for, are limited in quantity - a zero-sum system; therefore, when you inflate the amount of money, because the goods it is traded for are finite, the money becomes worth less.

In our system, there is no exchange of mechs back for money or any other goods. So inflating the number of (P) mechs does NOTHING. They were worthless to begin with. You can't get anything back from them, other than the enjoyment of playing them, which should not be hindered, unless you are a trollish little child who doesn't want anyone to get what you have.

[Zolaz]

Im an Overlord and Im voting "NO". PGI should keep their end of the bargain and not let exclusive content go up for sale again. All of the mechs are available for c-bill purchases. If you want a c-bill boost grinder mech, pick up the Hero version.

Just waiting for PGI to tell me that I am on an island and that Im no longer their target audience so that they can put up the Phoenix Package and Saber Reinforcement on sale again.

[Tor6]

If PGI wants to avoid alienating its paying customers, they won't put it on sale again. However, I have a feeling that the poll will reach majority in favor of yes because PGI has complete control over the poll and has every [very short term] financial incentive to see that Phoenix goes on sale again.

[Xetelian]

I am a phoenix owner and I'll vote Yes.

PGI could use the money and I'd like to upgrade to Overlord pack anyway.

[anonymous161]

Dino Might, on 17 May 2015 - 08:51 PM, said:

I say sell them again for two reasons:

More $ to PGI keeps the game F2P and continuing to develop.
Gets people opportunity to buy mechs they may have missed out on. It does not hurt me one bit to have others get what I have. It's not a zero-sum game. Exclusivity demands are for children.

I rather this not be free to play I rather see this go retail and get a real story with mp with it. f2p model is ruining gaming.

Xetelian, on 18 May 2015 - 03:26 PM, said:

I am a phoenix owner and I'll vote Yes.

PGI could use the money and I'd like to upgrade to Overlord pack anyway.

Use the money for what? More badly designed maps and mechs with quirks up the arse or nerfed to being not fun to play?

I think the player base is very naive

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tor6, on 18 May 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

If PGI wants to avoid alienating its paying customers, they won't put it on sale again. However, I have a feeling that the poll will reach majority in favor of yes because PGI has complete control over the poll and has every [very short term] financial incentive to see that Phoenix goes on sale again.

Actually it is alienating with either decision. Yes, one could make an argument for it alienating new players which is honestly why I like that they kept the most recent packs available after release (even if their prices are still terrible). As for paranoia over the poll, I had to laugh, if this thread is proof of anything, it is that not everyone who bought the Pheonix Packs is as hung up on exclusivity as you are.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 18 May 2015 - 03:36 PM.

[Wobbleside]

I'm an Overlord owner and I will be voting yes. It's just digital content, I can't resell it. If people want access, why not?