172 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Ronyn, on 18 May 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

The nerf is too late actually. It should have been handled prior to the massive inflation of IS mech quirks. Now PGI will have a ton of back tracking to get everything balanced again, because the Stormcrow and Timberwolf being overpowered is what drove the IS quirk inflation to begin with.

Also, think of all the blanket nerfs that Clan Tech has received under the reign of the Stomrcrow and Timberwolf. My Summoner is still reeling from those.

Very true. Too late, wrong quirks, etc. The issues some folks seem to miss is just how bad the individual balance discrepancies are becoming thanks to poorly thought out bandaid "fixes" after poorly thought out bandaid fixes.

[Nick86]

Bishop and Kristian, the truth lies between both your points. I too am a dual account player and have been around for 2yrs. TW and SCR are over represented because they are optimised as Kristian says above other mechs which no one but pgi understands so endo/ferro for the poor needs to be addressed. TW and SCR are still a bit OP but these nerfs to TW are a bit much considering how it will play out in game regardless of the calculations. The imbalance meta just shifts, problems remain.

Bishop was spot on with what actually needs to happen I feel.

Russ.. PLEASE listen to those who play both and don't whine.

But leave my Huginn and FS9 alone..

No, seriously, just implement the most simple, sensible solutions. We were all upset with the IGP stuff and you've done well overall since, but this yellow brick road is getting tired. Also, pls revive cw with better cbills or something to get population up!
I hope this is a good contribution to real progress. Thankyou guys for posting!!

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 May 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

Thats sorta the point of making up your mind though Bish. Its actually a necessary trait to getting things done.

And deciding on driving down that highway at 150 mph no matter how many road signs, radio warnings, and cops trying to slow you down might be a bad idea, too, Joe. Because sometimes....you make a bad decision. And it's kind of pointless to listen to all those warnings AFTER you find out that bridge is out ahead and you go hurtling off the chasm.

[Mirkk Defwode]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

I'm fine with specific quirks, because those mechs were engineered from the ground up around specific weapon systems. They SHOULD perform better with those systems that some jury rigged weaponry. To me it's the degree of superiority. Many mechs are either overquirked period, or quirked with poor forethought (leading to boating) or quirked just plain wrong. And even the ones that are better thought out (most of the Hunchbacks nad Centurions) I feel the quirks should focus more on the General, with a smaller percent to the specific. So instead of say a 15% Ballistic and 15% AC10, for 30% with the stock gun, it should probably be 20% Ballistic and 10% AC10. But I do feel the stock weapon SHOULD be it's most efficient. But that quirks should never be such high percentages that they define the mech, and the meta, as they really are in many cases, now.

But again, different argument for a different day.

I'm looking also at the ones that are quirked for the wrong weapon entirely...let's use the new Urbie as an example. UM-60 is meant to be a small laser and AC10, but the quirks it got were for generic laser, and Machineguns...This entirely ignored the namesake weapon that the urbie was built around for a platform.

Or the Locust 1V getting a quirk for the ERLL, it's the off-platform or non-lore based quirks I take the most offense with, The example for the Centurions and the Hunchback is fair. If we ever saw the Hollander I'd want it to have a quirk toward the lone gauss rifle it carries because it is a walking gauss rifle. There are always exceptions to the rule.

As it goes for the TBR and SCR, I personally think the negative quirks should've been oriented toward maneuverability rather than weapons performance. But they are geared toward the laser spam that's popular and evident today as the core gameplay. Everytime I fight I feel like I'm looking through a kaleidoscope.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Take the 3% nerfs per pod and make them 2.5% nerfs
There I fixed it

alternatively, Remove Speed Tweak and make them less nimble

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 18 May 2015 - 08:16 AM.

[Kristian Radoulov]

Ok, about the IS side of things. I will openly admit I do not have all the IS mechs, and I have only a few chassis fully upgrades with max skills and modules (Hunchback, Orion, Blackjack).

With that being said, the biggest issue with the firestarter is hitreg. Fix that first and let's talk. I have video from playing yesterday where a Firestarter, standing still ghosts 2 of my PPCs on my Warhawk. I'll be uploading the video to my Youtube channel so you can see for yourself.

Next the raven, I don't have a 2X so I can't speak on how the mech performs, and frankly I don't see them that much. But I do wholeheartedly agree that the Huginn's dps needs toned down.

Stalkers. I own a 4N: only the basic upgrades. From playing on the public maps, I feel that the mech isn't that OP. I feel that it's ability to front load damage with the heat reduction is a bit of a problem, but frankly there are ways to deal with the mech (light harassment most notably). The problem with Stalkers is when you get to CW maps and there is no ability to flank and there are SO many ridges where a Stalker can dig in at which point you just can't trade with it. Could it use heat reduction nerfs? Yes, but honestly it's in the ballpark on public matches. CW map layout is the real problem here.

[Night Thastus]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

And this is why we can't have a good conversation. You may well be right, but IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN; WILL NEVER HAPPEN SO DERAILING EVERYTHING WISHING FOR AVALON IS POINTLESS.

So really, now let's focus on what we DO have, and what might reasonably be addressed?

Whoah. No need to get so worked up. I was trying to bring out a possible solution that fixes nearly everything. Why can't it happen? Yes, it's a gigantic change, but it'd fix nearly everything that's wrong. It's not like what I'm suggesting is a new game engine. It's not beyond the laws of possible. Hell, I'd pay money towards them if I knew it was going to fund a change like that.

"WISHING FOR AVALON IS POINTLESS." What is Avalon?

[Mirkk Defwode]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 May 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

Thats sorta the point of making up your mind though Bish. Its actually a necessary trait to getting things done.

Ah but you can have it both ways, it's about being inventive in how to approach the issues. Much of the lore actually makes sense of these issues even if it isn't in the tabletop rules the fiction surrounding the battletech universe is robust and capable.

[Bishop Steiner]

Nick86, on 18 May 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

Bishop and Kristian, the truth lies between both your points. I too am a dual account player and have been around for 2yrs. TW and SCR are over represented because they are optimised as Kristian says above other mechs which no one but pgi understands so endo/ferro for the poor needs to be addressed. TW and SCR are still a bit OP but these nerfs to TW are a bit much considering how it will play out in game regardless of the calculations. The imbalance meta just shifts, problems remain.

Bishop was spot on with what actually needs to happen I feel.

Russ.. PLEASE listen to those who play both and don't whine.

But leave my Huginn and FS9 alone..

No, seriously, just implement the most simple, sensible solutions. We were all upset with the IGP stuff and you've done well overall since, but this yellow brick road is getting tired. Also, pls revive cw with better cbills or something to get population up!
I hope this is a good contribution to real progress. Thankyou guys for posting!!

FS9 needs a fix that goes deeper than the chassis, in just getting hitreg to be bloody consistent (and that's for all chassis, just the FS9 is the undeniable posterboy to any objective players), period. But it seriously doesn't need ANY weapon quirks to still be the best Light. After hitreg is fixed (if ever) THEN I could see revisiting it to see if it needed offensive quirks.

And Huginn could seriously lose about 15% of it's cooldown rate bonus..or the heat reduction to counter it's high RoF. When I can core out a full assault mech in seconds from in front.... wowser these things are EVIL. (though admittedly fragile if focused, which is why I feel that they only probably need minor reductions. But the DPS on those things.....yikes! And I like my Huginn, for the record)

[DaZur]

I dunno Bish... I'm obliged to wait until we actually have the opportunity to physically try/feel these quirk adjustments on the battlefield.

I've seen far too many wailing and gnashing of teeth as members pour over raw numbers, making clandestine prognostications of doom only to find out the math doesn't match the manifest.

... This has happened at least a dozen times here. I can wait.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

And deciding on driving down that highway at 150 mph no matter how many road signs, radio warnings, and cops trying to slow you down might be a bad idea, too, Joe. Because sometimes....you make a bad decision. And it's kind of pointless to listen to all those warnings AFTER you find out that bridge is out ahead and you go hurtling off the chasm.

Is that a US Highway or teh Autoban? Cause as I hear it there are some stretches that allow you to drive as fast as your car can go. I've not been there so this is hearsay.

And for the example you give here... Its not teh Police or the traffic signs its the kids in the back seat. You and I can suggest whatever we would like to PGI... In the end though it is their choice. And if they make a bad choice, it is their company to do with as they see fit.

[STEF_]

Bishop, everybody knows that Timber and crow are good mechs because of thier hitboxes and mobility.

Everybody but PGI.

Which is the sense to screw up the only competitive weapons they can use?
It would have sense while giving them viable ballistic....but I can see nothing about this.
I am bored about them, using lezorz while riding clam.
But there is no other choice in comp scene.

[Green Mamba]

More Nerf to TBR/SCR = more purchases for New Clan Packs...

Before people ask why do this people are quitting?

Answer: Because history has proven that they almost always come back since its the only MW in town and will go ahead and purchase the New Clan Packs to get their MW/BT fix .This is what happens when an IP is hostage with a fanatically loyal fan base especially one that might be only second to D&D

[Joseph Mallan]

Mirkk Defwode, on 18 May 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

Ah but you can have it both ways, it's about being inventive in how to approach the issues. Much of the lore actually makes sense of these issues even if it isn't in the tabletop rules the fiction surrounding the battletech universe is robust and capable.

True, but this is PGIs baby, not ours. There is a fine line between giving the players what they want, and developing a game I want (If I were PGI).

[Nick86]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

And this is why we can't have a good conversation. You may well be right, but IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN; WILL NEVER HAPPEN SO DERAILING EVERYTHING WISHING FOR AVALON IS POINTLESS.

So really, now let's focus on what we DO have, and what might reasonably be addressed?

Bishop, I don't agree with Night Thastus' ideas BUT PGI does have to do something radical.. I don't know if endo/ferro for other clan mechs is too out there but what do you guys think?

[EvilCow]

I am sure declining graphs will help establishing a better mutual understanding and communication.

[Bishop Steiner]

Stefka Kerensky, on 18 May 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

Bishop, everybody knows that Timber and crow are good mechs because of thier hitboxes and mobility.

Everybody but PGI.

Which is the sense to screw up the only competitive weapons they can use?
It would have sense while giving them viable ballistic....but I can see nothing about this.
I am bored about them, using lezorz while riding clam.
But there is no other choice in comp scene.

kinda why I stated that in the OP, lol. Though it's amazing how many ForumClanners still cry that the TBR and SCR are fine, and not remotely OP. (Not looking at you Kristian, you are putting out reasoned arguments, even if I don't agree with all of them)

[Mirkk Defwode]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 May 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

True, but this is PGIs baby, not ours. There is a fine line between giving the players what they want, and developing a game I want (If I were PGI).

True, but the goal for game development - all game development - should be to please the fanbase to some degree. So they've taken a franchise with a rabid fanbase and changed some of the core tenants in a way that those fans disapprove of. There needs to be some sort of exchange to help alleviate the criticism.

Hell you look at FF14 they had so much criticism they literally shut the game down after 2 months, spent 9 months revamping systems then did a whole re-launch of the title as the 'Reborn' title.

[Joseph Mallan]

Green Mamba, on 18 May 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

More Nerf to TBR/SCR = more purchases for New Clan Packs...

Before people ask why do this people are quitting?

Answer: Because history has proven that they almost always come back since its the only MW in town and will go ahead and purchase the New Clan Packs to get their MW/BT fix .This is what happens when an IP is hostage with a fanatically loyal fan base especially one that might be only second to D&D

I am much more Fanatical about CBT that AD&D. And I started D&D back in 78! There are a few to many D&D "worlds" to follow.
Greyhawk
Whatever the 2nd Edition world was
Dragonlance
Everron
That space fairing D&D game
Dark Sun World
Ravenloft

Just to name a few. Then there was New Aucken... Which was my brothers D&D world.

[Nick86]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:

FS9 needs a fix that goes deeper than the chassis, in just getting hitreg to be bloody consistent (and that's for all chassis, just the FS9 is the undeniable posterboy to any objective players), period. But it seriously doesn't need ANY weapon quirks to still be the best Light. After hitreg is fixed (if ever) THEN I could see revisiting it to see if it needed offensive quirks.

And Huginn could seriously lose about 15% of it's cooldown rate bonus..or the heat reduction to counter it's high RoF. When I can core out a full assault mech in seconds from in front.... wowser these things are EVIL. (though admittedly fragile if focused, which is why I feel that they only probably need minor reductions. But the DPS on those things.....yikes! And I like my Huginn, for the record)

Yeah, but I didn't actually want to divert the conversation towards my IS lights.. The other points are far more important and I have stopped paying which is sad because i wanna help this game.