90 replies to this topic

[mogs01gt]

Is really killing the game for me. I simply cannot sit there and play hide & seek with the other team. What created this boring play style? I want to flank, I want to get to their backs or sides, I want to move.....I think another month or two long break will be good for me but what is the point? I doubt the game will change... I seem to be only to play for a week before it gets dreadfully boring..

Mogs

[Nothing Whatsoever]

It goes back to the fundamentals:

High Heat Capacity
Low Dissipation
Ability to Fire everything into the same spot
Stackable High Damage Weapons

[Juodas Varnas]

I'm too impatient for hiding and poking.
I even try to brawl with poking builds, doesn't really work, but i can't help it!

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 21 May 2015 - 08:40 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Well, you can flank if you want, and brawl, and charge majestically across the open to do vicious battle with your foes...

...but the harsh reality is that TTK will ensure that you are a vaguely metallic smear on the landscape approximately 0.23 seconds (sorry, 0.44 seconds with the recent nerfs) after leaving cover to do anything on that bucket list.

People stay in cover because they want to live long enough to be able to contribute.

Actually, you can still do those things. You just need to wait until the latter half of the match to do it - at which point the game is probably already decided, admittedly.

[mogs01gt]

Kiiyor, on 21 May 2015 - 08:40 PM, said:

Well, you can flank if you want, and brawl, and charge majestically across the open to do vicious battle with your foes...

...but the harsh reality is that TTK will ensure that you are a vaguely metallic smear on the landscape approximately 0.23 seconds (sorry, 0.44 seconds with the recent nerfs) after leaving cover to do anything on that bucket list.

People stay in cover because they want to live long enough to be able to contribute.

Actually, you can still do those things. You just need to wait until the latter half of the match to do it - at which point the game is probably already decided, admittedly.

I dont have time for that ****. I loose my interest in about 3 minutes worth of waiting. "yeah!! lets stand around and take pop shots at each other for 5 minutes"....gets old and boring.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

mogs01gt, on 21 May 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

Is really killing the game for me. I simply cannot sit there and play hide & seek with the other team. What created this boring play style? I want to flank, I want to get to their backs or sides, I want to move.....I think another month or two long break will be good for me but what is the point? I doubt the game will change... I seem to be only to play for a week before it gets dreadfully boring..

Mogs

Try piloting a light mech instead. Raven's, Firestarters, Mist Lynx, have good mobility. You'd be surprised how many people still like to turn their backs to a main force to break off and chase the squirrel.

[YueFei]

The game might be more mobile if mechs always had enough health to close in, forcing long range builds to kite.

They could still kite, but that means they gotta move, which means possibly giving up an advantageous perch.

And that means more movement overall.

I think at lower skill levels it might be true already that mechs have enough health to always close in, since people's aim is not as good. But I've watched a few competitive matches, and it's sad when an all-out brawl rush is totally stomped before it can even close in.

I suppose it wouldn't be so sad if the brawlers could at least mix it up and then get defeated anyhow cuz of taking too much damage on the way in.... but from what I've seen, the brawlers basically all die before they can even do much.... and the long range mechs pretty much never had to kite, really.

Edited by YueFei, 21 May 2015 - 08:49 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Aside from what makes the pokey game the more efficient way to win right now, I often force brawls whenever I can, and I skirmish a lot. I get too impatient when I run mid to long range mechs.

I just need to keep reminding myself to not push too hard, to avoid putting myself in a bad spot. I also enjoy trying to be the stealthy ninja, striking on the flanks as often as I can. It don't always work, but it's more fun than doing the pokey playstyle.

And if I have a fast mech I often try to play the role of the squirrel to get enemies to either focus or chase after me and get them out of favorable positions to the benefit of my team. I die often as a result, but meh don't care about KDR if it helps secure a win.

[Novakaine]

Remember me I was in that match and dying in the first 3 minutes of the game helps no one.
Seriously.

[Augustus Martelus II]

Novakaine, on 21 May 2015 - 09:05 PM, said:

Remember me I was in that match and dying in the first 3 minutes of the game helps no one.
Seriously.

but helping some others to get a kill

[Felio]

00ohDstruct, on 21 May 2015 - 08:47 PM, said:

Try piloting a light mech instead. Raven's, Firestarters, Mist Lynx, have good mobility. You'd be surprised how many people still like to turn their backs to a main force to break off and chase the squirrel.

Well yeah, they're bored.

[-Vompo-]

In almost every map you can move in cover to close range. I play pretty much only brawlers and I have no problems getting a fight started on my terms. Sure sometimes I take some damage before I'm in range but it's rarely anything serious.

Poking is no problem if you have few team mates who are willing to close in.

[Anjian]

mogs01gt, on 21 May 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

Is really killing the game for me. I simply cannot sit there and play hide & seek with the other team. What created this boring play style? I want to flank, I want to get to their backs or sides, I want to move.....I think another month or two long break will be good for me but what is the point? I doubt the game will change... I seem to be only to play for a week before it gets dreadfully boring..

Mogs

Hide and pook are pretty common with shooters, especially with the tank games (WoT, WTGF). In fact you better be good at it if you want to succeed in those games. MWO actually doesn't do a very good implementation of hide and pook compared to the other games, but its there.

Defeating hide and pook is a matter of good map design, that lets you outflank the pooker, or snipe him from a distance, and sometimes, both. That is also what the tank games also provide. Good maps on the other hand, are a shortage in MWO, because they seem to think that funneling people into bottlenecks is a good idea (a very popular FPS used it and people thought it was a great idea since then, but its actually a bad idea.)

[Felio]

Anjian, on 21 May 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

Defeating hide and pook is a matter of good map design, that lets you outflank the pooker, or snipe him from a distance, and sometimes, both. That is also what the tank games also provide. Good maps on the other hand, are a shortage in MWO, because they seem to think that funneling people into bottlenecks is a good idea (a very popular FPS used it and people thought it was a great idea since then, but its actually a bad idea.)

Core tenets of multiplayer map design haven't changed, just been forgotten. You want multiple distinct zones with multiple paths to and from each one.

I've known that since reading a book on how to make maps for Duke Nukem 3D (1994). It's still totally true. Think about your favorite or the most popular shooter maps.

In MWO, Mining Collective probably comes closest.

[Eider]

War.. war never changes. Why do we no longer don full body armor and go charging at people with swords? because guns have range and risk/reward. Hate to say it but even if ttk was longer and lasers nerfed people would still use them due to the range vs any melee type weapon.

[Black Ivan]

The game style is induced by PGI's interpretation of the BT heatsystem and after reducing heat dissipation.
What is called Double Heatsink in MWO outside reactor heatsink is on a 1.4 Heatsink, no double. So heat is problem first.
Second reason is that many people just try to look out, make a quick shot and retreat to safety and hope others will do the job for them.

[YueFei]

Eider, on 21 May 2015 - 09:43 PM, said:

War.. war never changes. Why do we no longer don full body armor and go charging at people with swords? because guns have range and risk/reward. Hate to say it but even if ttk was longer and lasers nerfed people would still use them due to the range vs any melee type weapon.

It's not inherently true that long-ranged will always trump short-range/melee.

Look to Melee vs Ranged in other games. Like Starcraft. Under some circumstances, the melee will trump the ranged units. And in other circumstances, it's the opposite. The game's designers can tune things however they want to achieve the desired balance.

Sure, if Zealots had like 10 hitpoints, they'd never be able to do anything cuz they'd die before getting into range. On the flip side, if someone had Blizzard did some PCP and gave Zealots 500 hitpoints in the next patch, you can be damn sure Zealots are gonna rip through just about anything on the ground cuz they'd be able to tank ridiculous amounts of firepower and close in.

[-Vompo-]

mogs01gt, on 21 May 2015 - 09:25 PM, said:

cover does nothing when the rest of the team sits back fingering their ********.

Maybe you should have read what I wrote about having other players with you.

The problem you are facing might be that your teammates cannot read your mind. I suggest you try communicating with them and maybe you'll find players who are willing to take the fight to the enemy.

[Anjian]

The hide and pooker requires a map that would funnel the victims to his hide and pook position like fresh meat in a conveyor belt.

On the other hand, if a map is more open and allows for more approaches of attack, the hide and pooker may end up waiting empty handed, and thus he will be forced to leave his position to actively hunt his victims.

An Attack and Defend mode like the game's Invasion mode makes hide and pooking easier, since the defender can simply find a position and wait for the attackers ala victimes come to him. On the other hand, if you have a mode like Domination (like in other games not in MWO), it forces both sides to be in the offensive, trying to grab that spot, and makes the game much more mobile.

I noticed that I don't do as much hide and pook in the MWO public games, due to the maps being open, and there is no real attack and defend mode there. This makes the situation much more liquid and mobile compared to CW. The public maps also do a better job for providing opportunities for flanking. I never did much do hide and poke in MWO until CW came.

[Eider]

YueFei, on 21 May 2015 - 09:48 PM, said:

It's not inherently true that long-ranged will always trump short-range/melee.

Look to Melee vs Ranged in other games. Like Starcraft. Under some circumstances, the melee will trump the ranged units. And in other circumstances, it's the opposite. The game's designers can tune things however they want to achieve the desired balance.

Sure, if Zealots had like 10 hitpoints, they'd never be able to do anything cuz they'd die before getting into range. On the flip side, if someone had Blizzard did some PCP and gave Zealots 500 hitpoints in the next patch, you can be damn sure Zealots are gonna rip through just about anything on the ground cuz they'd be able to tank ridiculous amounts of firepower and close in.

It is generally true to life, games where they balance such things out usually have a lot of extra to make melee applicable. In such an example you can have bloated hp or shield to counter what range does naturally. This is not the only game to struggle with that, there is a reason why in shooters you see many snipers. Sure a shotgun user hiding in a doorway or under the stairs can do well, in very specific situations.

Eider, on 21 May 2015 - 10:02 PM, said:

It is generally true to life, games where they balance such things out usually have a lot of extra to make melee applicable. In such an example you can have bloated hp or shield to counter what range does naturally. This is not the only game to struggle with that, there is a reason why in shooters you see many snipers. Sure a shotgun user hiding in a doorway or under the stairs can do well, in very specific situations.

oh and as for real live examples there is a reason knights when out of style when they developed crossbows. Even before then you had bows and extra long spears etc.