211 replies to this topic

[NephyrisX]

AkoolPopTart, on 22 May 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

To me, Activision and EA are publishers, not developers. In any case though, I completely agree with the OP. I do get the feeling that PGI doesn't really support MWO and that they are more interested in making fast cash off of peoples nostalgia by selling overpriced mechs for $90 instead of actually trying to make a decent game. Only three names that come to mind that I believe would actually try making a good Mechwarrior game are Mektek (Preferred since they did so much for MW4:M and likely had plans to even re-release the game with new graphics in the future), DICE, and Respawn Entertainment.

Uh, I think you're misinterpreting the OP somewhat.

[Johnny Z]

Apnu, on 22 May 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

This is sort of echoing you but here goes:

Microsoft was sitting on the "Mechwarrior" IP they bought form FASA Interactive when FASA was dying out and since MechAssault they'd done nothing with it and had no intention to do anything with it. Microsoft owns a lot of IP like this. They bought it because it seemed like a good idea at the time then forgot they had it.

Along comes Jordan Wiesman and wanting to get back into the IP he invented, so he fishes around a bit, finds Russ and Bryan and they cook up a scheme to bring Mechwarrior back from the dead.

Once Russ and Bryan had raised enough capital to lease the IP from MS they were going to go back 3005 in the time line and make a traditional SP game with some net code bolted on as has been done in the past. They made the now famous and smacked down by Harmony Gold, video and shopped it around.

No publisher was interested in the IP. The business plan looked solid, but nobody wanted to invest in "Mechwarrior" They shopped the IP all over the world, nothing.

So Russ has a buddy who wants to get into games publishing, and he forms IGP who would then publish PGI's game and MWO was born.

Its not a matter of if PGI is worthy or not, its a matter that they are the ONLY ones even remotely interested in making a game.

So dump on PGI all you want folks, they're the only legal game in town. MWLL was in a gray area, tolerated by MS. They had some protection from MS by staying free and they had the understanding that if a for-profit enterprise ever formed around the Mechwarrior IP, they'd have to shut down.

Going negative on PGI and trying to starve them out is a great way to make sure we never see a Mechwarrior game again. Because doing so just proves MW isn't a viable product and MS will sit on the IP now and forever like EA does with "Multiplayer Battletech" and "Battletech" names. Because of EA's ownership of "Battletech" and the fact that they're sitting on it is the reason why the only other decent BT game is called "MegaMek"

Just giving you the truth folks. Flame me all you want and say bad things about PGI and their families, you won't change the facts I've just unspooled above.

Ya the trolls disrespecting PGI are just that, trolls. I completely ignore them as a matter of fact. But now that they have my attention I dont mind saying some think character assissination and slander is a cure all. Wrong again troll *******.

Edited by Johnny Z, 22 May 2015 - 09:58 AM.

[FupDup]

1453 R, on 21 May 2015 - 10:55 PM, said:

Whether they're 'worthy' or not is irrelevant. Nobody else wants the rights to the franchise, especially after the MWO playerbase has done such an amazing job of showing the rest of video gaming what a bunch of ungrateful f***abillies we all are.

Would you want to develop a game for the MechWarrior community at this point? I sure as shootin' wouldn't, and I'm such a colossal sucker for MechWarrior and BattleTech that I still bought half of Resistance II even though I don't really pilot Spheroid 'Mechs anymore. Pardon me for saying it, but this place is kinda hip-deep in total bassholes.

Sadly, this.

When people have said things like "Well, I'd like to see you make your own game!" that has inspired me to actually play out a real hypothetical mental simulation of being the lead dev/president/supreme commander of a new MW game. All the scenarios for people to whine about meaningless things like "Oh no, you made the Small Laser do more damage than lore! My assault got killed by a non-assault!" and other such nonsense gave me a headache real fast.

If I ever did magically have the ability to make a giant robot game one day in FantasyLand, I think it might be easier/better to just create an entirely new ripoff IP that drew some *cough cough inspiration cough cough* from Mechwarrior but without inheriting its innate mechanics problems or community.

[Apnu]

Johnny Z, on 22 May 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

Ya the trolls disrespecting PGI are just that, trolls. I completely ignore them as a matter of fact. But now that they have my attention I dont mind saying some think character assissination and slander is a cure all. Wrong again troll *******.

I keep thinking the trolls will get bored and leave, but I'm wrong. They've found a new metagame to play its called: "Taking a dump on MWO so everybody can be miserable" How equal opportunity of them.

[AlexEss]

Worthy....?

Never really saw that as part of the equation... But let me flip it and ask... Are you worthy of PLAYING a BT game...

Any way... as others have pointed out it is not like there are a line around the block to pick this IP up... It is not exactly CoD or Halo...

But to answer. Yes... I do think they are. They are doing a really good job to both update a out of date IP and and a out of date game to something that fit better with today.

Could things have gone smoother... Yes... But all in all... i have seen bigger companies go worse off the rails.

Edited by AlexEss, 22 May 2015 - 10:24 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Apnu, on 22 May 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

I keep thinking the trolls will get bored and leave, but I'm wrong. They've found a new metagame to play its called: "Taking a dump on MWO so everybody can be miserable" How equal opportunity of them.

I sometimes think its the people making this game on their alias accounts being funny. lol

Edited by Johnny Z, 22 May 2015 - 10:50 AM.

[Zordicron]

Short answer: yes they are worthy.

Longer answer:
One must realise what the history of this IP has been. It was basically blockbuster in the late 90's, Microsoft made bank on MW4 and it's expansions.

In short, the franchise went big, showed potential for a lot of money to be made, and therefore was value inflated well beyond what it should have been. Then you have more money parties involved like Harmony Gold, and basically, battletech/Mechwarrior the video game suffers from being waaaaaaay overvalued based on a development structure that was obsoleted 15 years ago with the advent of online gaming and MMO's.

nobody developes 50 million dollar single player games without knowing their will be monster sales. Elder scrolls i think might be the last of it's kind, but Bethesda knows their **** and has handled everything very well.

key to being a success: making a game so freeking awesome, and so "modern" graphically, that it has massive staying power to allow for the development of the next in the series. Mechwarrior could do that. Unfortunatly, it would require some MEGABUCKS to front and the risk for investors is pretty intense as it is an unknown.

Essentially, Microsoft shafted Mechwarrior, locked it behind a giant mountain of licensing money, and the "super awesome" aura around the IP faded out mostly because of time. If a MW5 had been made in a timely manner(instead of ******* mech assault) interest in the IP would have been sustained and fan base maintained. it was not made, and so neither happened.

I have no idea if Smith and Tinker ever had the financial ability to make a good MW5. I am guessing not. PGI/IGP decided to risk it. Mostly, it was IGP money at risk, so obviously they had a say. And thats when a game turns into a retail cash cow, when investors want a return. So the investors called the shots.

Honestly, I think PGI has the IP's best interests at heart, but is really struggling to juggle all the over inflated money/value issues that mechwarrior has as baggage. They have managed to buy out of the investors from IGP. They have managed to aquire a lengthy lease of the IP from Microsoft. They are slowly getting traction on the whole money pit that is Mechwarrior, and managing to push the game forward while they do it.

So, YES, I do think they are worthy. Would someone like Bethesda be better? Maybe, because of money, but who knows if the game play would stay true to its roots. thats the one issue with huge money bag companies, they do what they want because they have megabucks. Smaller places like PGI have to at least sort of cater to the core fans because their entire livelyhood depends on it.

Here is hoping these rumors about Weissman floating around will be a 100% positive for MWO moving forward, as IMO a joint venture with him for a single player campaign to merge with MWO would be ideal.

[Apnu]

Johnny Z, on 22 May 2015 - 10:47 AM, said:

I sometimes think its the people making this game on their alias accounts being funny. lol

LOL, that would be funny.

PGI guy 1: I'm so frustrated with this job right now!
PGI guy 2: Let's make alt account and punk the forums!
PGI guy 1: You're on!

[C E Dwyer]

NephyrisX, on 21 May 2015 - 10:30 PM, said:

I honestly couldn't come up with a better thread name, so there.

Anyway, I ask this because after witnessing quite a number of whiny posters complaining about how "PGI is a sham" and "we should bankrupt them" etc,etc after the recent nerfs, it got me wondering how others feel about this topic. What are your opinions?

I also have trouble figuring out what company outside of PGI would be willing to take on the prospect of holding on the the Mechwarrior franchise considering how niche it is, and the first real attempt at resurrecting it only happened over a bleeting decade after the last MW game. Could it be said that PGI saved MW from complete obscurity then, since no other company appears interested in it outside of Harmony Gold trying to milk us via "lolsuemore"?

Sorry but kind of a pointless question, PGi have the rights it don't matter if they are worthy or not.

This franchise was a ghost town until PGI took it up, without PGI there would be no mech warrior worth a damn, across a world wide population.

Which is why even with the lack of depth in content, or the next sleezy stunt they pull, MC mech sale then nerf for example, a complex CW with a proper penalty for losing planets talked about but got a skeleton of a match mode.

People should remember without them there is nothing to QQ about

[spectralthundr]

Mister Blastman, on 22 May 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

But Activision made the original games. And they were good. I'd rather buy a complete product than more of this free to play nonsense.

Of course, this means the original designers would need come back, too.

Activision is no longer a developer and hasn't been for more than a decade, an investment group bought the name and has been running it into the ground as a publisher arm ever since. The people that worked on MW:31st Century Combat, MW2/MW2:Mercs are no longer even in the industry.

[Sjorpha]

They are that ones who decided to try and do what no one else would, and that's all the legitimacy they need as I see it.

[XX Sulla XX]

You have to remember its a pretty small fan base compared to other games. PGI seems to fit with it pretty well.

[Sir Wulfrick]

Black Ivan, on 21 May 2015 - 11:08 PM, said:

I don't believe that PGI is a worthy holder of the IP, for several reasons, but that won't matter anyway since no other company will want to take the IP for a game anyway.

First problem is Harmony Gold which always will look on a new MW game for licence fees or lawsuits. Second Battletech as awhole is a game from mid 90s and could need serious overhaul to make it more appealing to a new customer base.

While I think that PGI are worthy, just, as holders of the IP, I'm actually glad that they've licensed it from Microsoft, purely for the safety of the future of the IP in terms of computer games.

Should they wish to do so HG could probably sue PGI out of existence, however Microsoft not so much. The army of IP and patent lawyers that Redmond employs are probably enough of a deterrent to Harmony Gold that Microsoft could pretty much do what they wanted to with little fear of a law suit.

I'm extremely happy with the way in which PGI have brought the Battlemechs to life - their art and modelling are second to none. I have significant reservations about the strategic direction of the game, but that is probably solvable.

[Fleeb the Mad]

Worthy?

Yup.

I'd say so because of their adherence to even the more nonsensical parts of the original TT rules set in an effort to stay true to the source. The last MW game that felt true to source for me was MW2:Mercs. I've seen people gush about MW4, but that's more rose-colored glasses. It and MW3 played much looser with the source material than PGI ever did, even as a single-player game. Mechcommander gets points for honesty, but it still had game-y changes and simplifications like 30-second repairs and its dumbed-down customization options.

Single player games with multiplayer bolt-ons also tend to be poorly balanced and largely abandoned by their developers once sales begin to dry up. MW3 and MW4 multiplayer were nowhere near balanced. I was there too. I am a huge battletech fan but I didn't like them.

Battletech games tend to have massive learning curves. A huge monetary investment would force the game to have so much dumbed down to appeal to a broader audience. This one is no different. I'll forgive a small developer's foibles for doing a partially crowd-funded game.

I can virtually gaurantee you a large developer wouldn't go through the lengths PGI has to make the old fans happy. A large developer wouldn't expect them to carry the game. I think the lack of mass appeal and general budget inflation is why you find Battletech in its current state.

[CDLord HHGD]

Deimos Alpha, on 22 May 2015 - 04:51 AM, said:

I got the collectors edition to, I'd sacrifice it all just for a game that's still going and still being invested in.

Me too... It was a beautiful game and I miss it a lot. Maybe someday there will be a worthy successor....

[Jonathan Paine]

PGI brought mechwarrior back from the grave, and has kept it running for years and wrested it away from IGP. Yes, they are a worthy holder.

(Not that there is any real competition)

[KovarD]

Apnu, on 22 May 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

Its not a matter of if PGI is worthy or not, its a matter that they are the ONLY ones even remotely interested in making a game.

Not true at all.
One word: MEKTEK.

They were making mods way before PGI hostage the Battletech IP.
They made a deal with Microsoft and released MW4 for free before PGI hostage the Battletech IP.
They were develpoing a full simulation game (AT1:BT) before PGI hostage the Battletech IP.
They tried to release a Solaris Arena battetech game made on Unreal Engine after PGI hostage the Battletech IP.
When everything failed because the IP was hostaged by PGI, they switched to Heavy Gear IP.

If PGI wasn't interested then we could be playing a battletech made by true BT/MW fans.

And don't forget Wandering Samurai with SC lead developer Sean Tracy...

[Apnu]

KovarD, on 22 May 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

Not true at all.
One word: MEKTEK.

They were making mods way before PGI hostage the Battletech IP.
They made a deal with Microsoft and released MW4 for free before PGI hostage the Battletech IP.
They were develpoing a full simulation game (AT1:BT) before PGI hostage the Battletech IP.
They tried to release a Solaris Arena battetech game made on Unreal Engine after PGI hostage the Battletech IP.
When everything failed because the IP was hostaged by PGI, they switched to Heavy Gear IP.

If PGI wasn't interested then we could be playing a battletech made by true BT/MW fans.

And don't forget Wandering Samurai with SC lead developer Sean Tracy...

You know so little about Battletech and Mechwarrior history.

"Battletech" as an electronic IP was bought by EA around 2000 when they bought the "Multiplayer Battletech" game. They own the electronic rights to "Battletech" and guard it. MegaMek is an electronic version of table top Battletech and has to have a different name because of EA. They survive only because they are free as in beer.

MegaMek has never tried to do anything other than what it is today. From http://megamek.info/about "MegaMek is an unofficial, online version of the Classic BattleTech board game. MegaMek is open source, free software. It is licenced under the GPL." NO mentions of "making mods" or making deals.

"Mechwarrior" specfically references being one pilot in one mech. Which is why this game is called "Mechwarrior" and the player controls only one mech at a time. "MechCommander" is a pseudo BT like game, but can't use "Battletech" because of EA's IP ownership. Not even Microsoft who owns "MechCommander" can touch that.

So you really have no idea what words your using.

PGI isn't holding hostage to anything. They make a licensed game called "Mechwarrior Online" Its got nothing to do with "Battletech"

When you say "they" I think you mean MW:LL and yes they had a special deal with Microsoft, that being they could exist using the IP for free, and only free, until someone else comes along and buy's the IP. Which happened. The MW:LL people had years to put together a business plan and seek funding to lease the IP from Microsoft but they didn't. They just wanted to make a mod game because they thought it was fun. The knew the risks.

Bone up on your game history before you start shooting your mouth off.

[Navid A1]

Only considering the technical point of view. NO.

The past development track record and the recent answers in the latest townhall shows that PGI is currently MODDING a pre-written code. A code that takes them significant effort and resources to edit and change because they don't have access to the original coders.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4370467

Edited by Navid A1, 22 May 2015 - 04:58 PM.

[keith]

Apnu, on 22 May 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

You know so little about Battletech and Mechwarrior history.

"Battletech" as an electronic IP was bought by EA around 2000 when they bought the "Multiplayer Battletech" game. They own the electronic rights to "Battletech" and guard it. MegaMek is an electronic version of table top Battletech and has to have a different name because of EA. They survive only because they are free as in beer.

MegaMek has never tried to do anything other than what it is today. From http://megamek.info/about "MegaMek is an unofficial, online version of the Classic BattleTech board game. MegaMek is open source, free software. It is licenced under the GPL." NO mentions of "making mods" or making deals.

"Mechwarrior" specfically references being one pilot in one mech. Which is why this game is called "Mechwarrior" and the player controls only one mech at a time. "MechCommander" is a pseudo BT like game, but can't use "Battletech" because of EA's IP ownership. Not even Microsoft who owns "MechCommander" can touch that.

So you really have no idea what words your using.

PGI isn't holding hostage to anything. They make a licensed game called "Mechwarrior Online" Its got nothing to do with "Battletech"

When you say "they" I think you mean MW:LL and yes they had a special deal with Microsoft, that being they could exist using the IP for free, and only free, until someone else comes along and buy's the IP. Which happened. The MW:LL people had years to put together a business plan and seek funding to lease the IP from Microsoft but they didn't. They just wanted to make a mod game because they thought it was fun. The knew the risks.

Bone up on your game history before you start shooting your mouth off.

pretty sure he means mektek the ppl who kept MW4 alive after Microsoft let it die. they added 3.5 exrta mech packs for free, keep the servers/ MM system running. heres the last vid of the MP4 before they were basically told to stop( if i remember right)