244 replies to this topic

[STEF_]

"Having" to drop with 4 (I) variant this weekend, I chose the summo.

It's not that bad, 5-600dmg average, I also had 1000+dmg and 2k with it, using 2ultraac5+2erml+2ersl.

Laser meta is not mandatory.

[IraqiWalker]

Stefka Kerensky, on 24 May 2015 - 10:39 PM, said:

"Having" to drop with 4 (I) variant this weekend, I chose the summo.

It's not that bad, 5-600dmg average, I also had 1000+dmg and 2k with it, using 2ultraac5+2erml+2ersl.

Laser meta is not mandatory.

My favorite set up is with 2 UAC5s, and 4 ERMLs.

[STEF_]

IraqiWalker, on 24 May 2015 - 10:42 PM, said:

My favorite set up is with 2 UAC5s, and 4 ERMLs.

Yes it is.
But I preferred 1 ton of ammo more, 'cause cw battles last longer.

[Thunder Child]

I actually ran the Prime Variant, downgrading the LRM15 to a SRM6, so that I could Max Armor and run two tons of LBX10 Ammo. It was fun. My Only gripe with it is it's lack of Jump Capacity. Give it a JJ quirk of about 25% more thrust, and I think I'd find it viable enough.

[Bishop Steiner]

IraqiWalker, on 24 May 2015 - 09:42 PM, said:

I love a lot of you guys, and I usually agree with you on most points, but I would rather they never unlock Endo for the Summoner, and instead make it work in a different way. Such as good quirks, and more pods.

My issue with that is two fold, TBH.

1) They are already leaning on Quirks way too dang hard. They need to hit Pause on Quirks, really reinvestigate what they hope to accomplish with them, and hit reset, with most mechs getting probably half their quirks removed, and many others changed to more logical and appropriate Quirks.

2) More Pods sounds good, but just like we have some Variants that serve absolutely no purpose, on IS Mechs, so too, that just means we have a lot of obsolete and pointless Pods, also. More options is good, but it doesn't fix the inherent issue with the existing stuff.

and heck, as a Bonus:

3) Without Endo, the majority of Mechs missing it will never really be good. The Dire Wolf and HellBringer are really the only two that are good without it, and one already packs 50 tons of guns and needs the space, not the tonnage, and the other would become instantly mediocre, High Hardpoints or not, once you removed the ECM. Even the Nova (though limited) improves with it. It doesn't address the "Light Issue", but that still has more to do with stubborn reluctance to learn how to play Lights as anything but Lagshielded Wolfpacks, than slower Lights being inherently bad or without purpose or use.

as WM Quicksilver says, when you consider what people are asking for with Quirks, aka, more heat dissipation, higher RoF (aka DPS), more ammo per ton, better JJs...... in most cases all these things are just substitutes for Tonnage....

Unlocking Endo frees up enough tonnage to make a dual Gauss Mad Dog viable. To allow one to use the Prime Pods on the Summoner and Gargoyle and be effective. One thing one notes with all the "viable builds" for those 2 mechs? No one touches the Prime Pods.

Quirks should be finishing touches on a Mech, never a crutch or the salvation of a chassis.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 25 May 2015 - 04:30 AM.

[Steve Pryde]

Summoner needs Endosteel. It hasn't many hardpoints so it'ssupposed to be fit big guns but if u try it most of the time u are lacking ammo or armor.

[Bishop Steiner]

Steve Pryde, on 25 May 2015 - 04:30 AM, said:

Summoner needs Endosteel. It hasn't many hardpoints so it'ssupposed to be fit big guns but if u try it most of the time u are lacking ammo or armor.

the point largely overlooked...the flavor of the chassis is JJs and Big Guns. It would be nice to actually be able to play it as such. Not like doing so impacts peoples ability to run tiny guns or laservomit.

[Lightfoot]

Timber Wolf 75 tons, 29 tons free with good armor.

Mad Dog 60 tons, 27 tons free with nearly full armor.

Stormcrow 55 tons, 23.5 tons free with good armor.

Summoner 70 tons, 21 tons free with good armor.

Summoner=50 ton mech by payload. Not an energy boat, not possible. 5 useless jump jets that are fixed, maybe it should jump like a 50 ton medium mech? The jump jets on the Summoner just make you a target for focus-fire they are so weak and slow. UACs are too long in burst duration to make them useful in the tonnage the Summoner has so the Summoner is just a missile/laser mech due to MWO's Clan weapon balance. MWO's Clan weapon balance is based on what the Dire Wolf can do with them. Especially the UACs since the DWF can boat them into a firestorm of streaming damage. Yaay Dire Wolf, but the Summoner just never shows up in MWO.

I say make it very tough with extra armor since that seems to be a popular Quirk, but maybe allow the Summoner only to switch it's engine out. That would bring the good old Summoner into MWO for the first time.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 May 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

Unlocked Endo, and some decent quirks to the C-ERPPC and C-LBX, and I would have my ultimate heavy mech. And buy, with IRL money, a second set for this account.

Prime RA
- C-ERPPC velocity boost 25%
- Cnergy Heat Reduction 20%

Prime LA
- Ballistics Cooldown 15%
- LB-10X Cooldown 15%
- LB-X Spread Reduction 10%

Don't want a cooldown on the ERPPC as it already runs the stock Prime hot. Use the LB-X for it's volume fire, which, if it had Endo, it would easily pack 2 more tons of LB-X Ammo to support the RoF. (Sure I'd love the 40% the CN9-D gets, but I'm trying not to be TOO greedy). Missiles don't need a quirk, as a tertiary system, IMO.

Getting a little more oomph out the JJs would not be frowned on....

And sadly, with all that, it would still be second rate.... but it would suit me to perfection.

And people could keep their laser vomit til the end of days, lol.


But it will never happen.

It's probably never gonna happen... ERPPC @ 12 heat is pretty significant.

Heck, 25% ERPPC velocity is a lot... for just one arm (even the Nova, Adder, and Warhawk gets 15% with 2 ERPPC quirked arm omnipods... let alone the mechs with the one-arm quirks like the Ice Ferret and Gargoyle). 15% ERPPC velocity would make better sense (but in all honesty, it's better if PPCs across the board were buffed in velocity).

Ironically, the buffs themselves (the LBX doesn't both me) are the kinds PGI would overbuff with and you would actually argue against (the overquirking)... and that's not exactly the way to go either...

[ArchAngelWC]

anyone who played mechcommander knows and loves the actual the summoner...
but yah....it is pretty lame in MWO...which explains why people prefer to play timbers

[Almond Brown]

Mizeur, on 23 May 2015 - 07:03 AM, said:

SRM hardpoints are so widely spread and Clan SRMs spread more than IS even with Artemis and the spread quirks that other mechs are better at the one thing it should do well. There's no reason to run it as a Streak boat.

Gauss+ERPPC poptart is the one unique niche it can fill. But that playstyle is also completely outclassed by everything else right now.

Could you provide us the missile Spread Data numbers for I.S. versus Clan SRM6 + Arty please.

That statement is so very provocative and would be quite interesting to see those #'s in actual printed form.

Verbal form, leaves so much to be desired, around here. lol

[Deathlike]

Almond Brown, on 25 May 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

Could you provide us the missile Spread Data numbers for I.S. versus Clan SRM6 + Arty please.

That statement is so very provocative and would be quite interesting to see those #'s in actual printed form.

Verbal form, leaves so much to be desired, around here. lol

Clan SRMs does have an increased spread, which is an actual fact.

However, the spread increase from my recollection isn't significant enough.

Artemis AFAIK reduces the spread of SRMs (and probably LRMs as well) by 33%.

Since I'm bored, I'll just put out a table based on the in-game XML data...

  <Weapon id="1004" name="SRM4" HardpointAliases="Missile,SRM,SRM4,ISSRM,ISSRM4" faction="InnerSphere">
	<Loc nameTag="@SRM4" descTag="@SRM4_desc" iconTag="StoreIcons\SRM4.dds" />
	<WeaponStats Health="10" slots="1" type="Missile" projectileclass="waypointrocket" numFiring="4" damage="2.15" heatdamage="0" heatpenalty="1.0" minheatpenaltylevel="4" impulse="0.11" heatPenaltyID="4" heat="3" cooldown="3.0" ammoType="SRMAmmo" ammoPerShot="4" minRange="0" longRange="270.0" maxRange="270.0" tons="2" duration="0.0" lifetime="15.0" speed="300" volleydelay="0.25" maxheight="0" radius="0.05" artemisAmmoType="SRMAmmoArtemis" formation_size="0.005" formation_size_per_index="0.025" spread="5.2" />
 
  <Weapon id="1030" name="SRM2" HardpointAliases="Missile,SRM,SRM2,ISSRM,ISSRM2" faction="InnerSphere">
	<Loc nameTag="@SRM2" descTag="@SRM2_desc" iconTag="StoreIcons\SRM2.dds" />
	<WeaponStats Health="10" slots="1" type="Missile" projectileclass="waypointrocket" numFiring="2" damage="2.15" heatdamage="0" heatpenalty="1.0" minheatpenaltylevel="5" impulse="0.11" heat="2" cooldown="2.0" ammoType="SRMAmmo" ammoPerShot="2" minRange="0" longRange="270.0" maxRange="270.0" tons="1" duration="0.0" lifetime="15.0" speed="300" volleydelay="0.25" maxheight="0" radius="0.05" artemisAmmoType="SRMAmmoArtemis" formation_size="0.005" formation_size_per_index="0.025" spread="4.8" />
 
 
  <Weapon id="1031" name="SRM6" HardpointAliases="Missile,SRM,SRM6,ISSRM,ISSRM6" faction="InnerSphere">
	<Loc nameTag="@SRM6" descTag="@SRM6_desc" iconTag="StoreIcons\SRM6.dds" />
	<WeaponStats Health="10" slots="2" type="Missile" projectileclass="waypointrocket" numFiring="6" damage="2.15" heatdamage="0" heatpenalty="1.0" minheatpenaltylevel="4" impulse="0.11" heatPenaltyID="4" heat="4.0" cooldown="4.0" ammoType="SRMAmmo" ammoPerShot="6" minRange="0" longRange="270.0" maxRange="270.0" tons="3" duration="0.0" lifetime="15.0" speed="300" volleydelay="0.25" radius="0.05" artemisAmmoType="SRMAmmoArtemis" formation_size="0.005" formation_size_per_index="0.025" spread="5.7" />
 
 
  <Weapon id="1226" name="ClanSRM2" HardpointAliases="Missile,SRM,SRM2,ClanSRM,ClanSRM2" faction="Clan">
	<Loc nameTag="@ClanSRM2" descTag="@ClanSRM2_desc" iconTag="StoreIcons\ClanSRM2.dds" />
	<WeaponStats Health="10" slots="1" type="Missile" projectileclass="waypointrocket" numFiring="2" damage="2.0" heatdamage="0" heatpenalty="1.0" minheatpenaltylevel="5" impulse="0.11" heat="2" cooldown="2.0" ammoType="ClanSRMAmmo" ammoPerShot="2" minRange="0" longRange="270.0" maxRange="270.0" tons="0.5" duration="0.0" lifetime="15.0" speed="300" volleydelay="0.25" maxheight="0" radius="0.05" artemisAmmoType="ClanSRMAmmoArtemis" formation_size="0.005" formation_size_per_index="0.025" spread="5.0" />
 
 
 
  <Weapon id="1227" name="ClanSRM4" HardpointAliases="Missile,SRM,SRM4,ClanSRM,ClanSRM4" faction="Clan">
	<Loc nameTag="@ClanSRM4" descTag="@ClanSRM4_desc" iconTag="StoreIcons\ClanSRM4.dds" />
	<WeaponStats Health="10" slots="1" type="Missile" projectileclass="waypointrocket" numFiring="4" damage="2.0" heatdamage="0" heatpenalty="1.0" minheatpenaltylevel="4" impulse="0.11" heatPenaltyID="7" heat="3" cooldown="3.0" ammoType="ClanSRMAmmo" ammoPerShot="4" minRange="0" longRange="270.0" maxRange="270.0" tons="1" duration="0.0" lifetime="15.0" speed="300" volleydelay="0.25" maxheight="0" radius="0.05" artemisAmmoType="ClanSRMAmmoArtemis" formation_size="0.005" formation_size_per_index="0.025" spread="5.4" />
 
 
  <Weapon id="1228" name="ClanSRM6" HardpointAliases="Missile,SRM,SRM6,ClanSRM,ClanSRM6" faction="Clan">
	<Loc nameTag="@ClanSRM6" descTag="@ClanSRM6_desc" iconTag="StoreIcons\ClanSRM6.dds" />
	<WeaponStats Health="10" slots="1" type="Missile" projectileclass="waypointrocket" numFiring="6" damage="2.0" heatdamage="0" heatpenalty="1.0" minheatpenaltylevel="4" impulse="0.11" heatPenaltyID="7" heat="4.0" cooldown="4.0" ammoType="ClanSRMAmmo" ammoPerShot="6" minRange="0" longRange="270.0" maxRange="270.0" tons="1.5" duration="0.0" lifetime="15.0" speed="300" volleydelay="0.25" radius="0.05" artemisAmmoType="ClanSRMAmmoArtemis" formation_size="0.005" formation_size_per_index="0.025" spread="5.9" />
 

For the lazy:

IS SRM2 - 4.8
IS SRM4 - 5.2
IS SRM6 - 5.7
CL SRM2 - 5.0
CL SRM4 - 5.4
CL SRM6 - 5.9

Edited by Deathlike, 25 May 2015 - 09:49 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

stuff

if it had the ammo and armor to use it well.

The Summoner has the exact same armor as any other 70t Mech in MWO. If we compare the quirks for the I.S. 70t Mechs to the Summoners, there is not some gross deficiency of Armor vs the other 70t tons Mechs currently in MWO. The Summoner, if Podded correctly can actually have "more total armor" than its I.S. Heavy counter-parts.

So what is this apparent lack of armor it needs that is spoken of. Or did I misread that when what it really means is, your wish is to retain the current level of "Fire Power", with whatever stripped down version of Armor you currently run on your Summoner(s), but would prefer to carry the maximum allowed amount of Armor, while retaining that same "Fire power" as well?

Edited by Almond Brown, 25 May 2015 - 09:53 AM.

[Deathlike]

Almond Brown, on 25 May 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

The Summoner has the exact same armor as any other 70t Mech in MWO. If we compare the quirks for the I.S. 70t Mechs to the Summoners, we see a very slight discrepancy but the Summoner does not have some gross deficiency of Armor vs the other 70t tons Mechs currently in MWO.

So what is this apparent lack of armor it needs that is spoken of. Or did I misread that when what it really means is, your wish is to retain the current level of "Fire Power", with whatever stripped down version of Armor you currently run on your Summoner(s), but would prefer to carry the maximum allowed amount of Armor, while retaining that same "Fire power" as well?

Bishop Steiner is mostly talking about the stock build, and nothing else.

[Almond Brown]

Deathlike, on 25 May 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

Clan SRMs does have an increased spread, which is an actual fact.

However, the spread increase from my recollection isn't significant enough.

Artemis AFAIK reduces the spread of SRMs (and probably LRMs as well) by 33%.

Since I'm bored, I'll just put out a table based on the in-game XML data...

good stuff

For the lazy:

IS SRM2 - 4.8
IS SRM4 - 5.2
IS SRM6 - 5.7
CL SRM2 - 5.0
CL SRM4 - 5.4
CL SRM6 - 5.9

Thank you good sir. Are we to understand that those spread values are the "max spread limits" when the missiles are fired at optimal ranges in meters... correct?

[Deathlike]

Almond Brown, on 25 May 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

Thank you good sir. Are we to understand that those spread values are the "max spread limits" when the missiles are fired at optimal ranges in meters... correct?

Um.

Those values to my understanding is the spread radius in meters.

The spread immediately occurs at some sub-90m range (I forget what range I was told, but it's like 45m or 30m or something like that), so the distance traveled will have that unfortunate/terrible spread for the bulk of its journey.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 May 2015 - 04:32 AM, said:

the point largely overlooked...the flavor of the chassis is JJs and Big Guns. It would be nice to actually be able to play it as such. Not like doing so impacts peoples ability to run tiny guns or laservomit.

I think they should give it a single slug AC quirk.

[Almond Brown]

Deathlike, on 25 May 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

Bishop Steiner is mostly talking about the stock build, and nothing else.

OK fair enough but the post spoke of a supposed "lack" ammo and armor. How does that distinguish between variants?

P.S. How many "playa's" would actually add more armor and or ammo, instead of more Dakka or Pew Pew, if actually given that extra tonnage?

Edited by Almond Brown, 25 May 2015 - 10:21 AM.

[Deathlike]

Almond Brown, on 25 May 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

OK fair enough but the post spoke of a supposed "lack" ammo and armor. How does that distinguish between variants?

I don't think you're paying enough attention to what he's saying.

He's almost always talking about the Summoner-Prime. Please use smurfy while you're at it when he's been clearly talking about an CERPPC and LBX buffs.

Quote

P.S. How many "playa's" would actually add more armor and or ammo, instead of more Dakka or Pew Pew, if actually given that extra tonnage?

Um, maxing armor is kinda important, since the Summoner's stock armor is pitiful. In the case of the Summoner, it's mostly going to go towards DHS and possibly ammo. It is very unlikely to upgrade its options otherwise outside of more omnipods.

[xe N on]

Lightfoot, on 25 May 2015 - 04:49 AM, said:

Timber Wolf 75 tons, 29 tons free with good armor.

Mad Dog 60 tons, 27 tons free with nearly full armor.

Stormcrow 55 tons, 23.5 tons free with good armor.

Summoner 70 tons, 21 tons free with good armor.

The Stormcrow has efficiently 1.5 ton less space then the Summoner. Because the Summoner comes with 4 heatsink pre-installed in it engine. The Stormcrow comes with zero. 4 heatsinks is the minimum you want to put on a clan mech any. Aside from dual Gauss builds.

But nice try.

But anyhow, give the summoner a right arm 4 energy omnipod. Would allow nice brawler builds.

Edited by xe N on, 25 May 2015 - 10:39 AM.