244 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Khobai, on 24 May 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

Nah the Gauntlet is like 3128... the timeline better not progress that far because because that part of the timeline is stupid.

Black Lanner, 3052 (for enough variants, just not the ATM stuff)


Though, speed rounding might make it different. A 14 TT movement speed (which on a Commando moves 160)

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 May 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

yes, because future pods help with the fact that current pods, and the mech in general, are obsolete

Because things like the A pod don't improve mechs at all.....
Food for thought, the pods from those future mechs, would give it the ability to mount 7 energy at the same time...
1 Energy per torso and 2 in the arms not to mention the missile boat version, in other words you could plenty of great things like the Gauss vomit Timby. It wouldn't be as good as the Timby, but still capable of more than the Mad Dog (not to mention the 10M capability).

Bishop Steiner, on 24 May 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

and that all the other chassis have pods that will still keep them superior to those Pods.

Hardpoints is the one thing that keeps the Summoner from being as flexible as the rest, remove that and you have a pretty freaking good chassis. Endo would make it seriously good if it had the hardpoints on top.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 24 May 2015 - 01:29 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Black Lanner, 3052 (for enough variants, just not the ATM stuff)

ah ok.

well the gauntlet is basically that on crack with jumpjets added on too

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 24 May 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

Don't worry, we'll eventually get the 55 tonner that moves 124 Kph as a base speed...and can MASC to 160 Kph.

That's while having up to 10 E hardpoints (or 6E 4B) and 11.5 tons of pod space. It can do 4M2E as well, so it does the Spladder better...and worse, but debatable which is best.


It can't jump, but it does everything else better.



By the way...it also has a head mounted Jesus Box.

Is there a point where we could predict a table of powercreep for PGI reference?

I mean... I feel like we have to adjust MWO balance up to 11.

[Bishop Steiner]

WM Quicksilver, on 24 May 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

Because things like the A pod don't improve mechs at all.....
Food for thought, the pods from those future mechs, would give it the ability to mount 7 energy at the same time...
1 Energy per torso and 2 in the arms not to mention the missile boat version, in other words you could plenty of great things like the Gauss vomit Timby. It wouldn't be as good as the Timby, but still capable of more than the Mad Dog (not to mention the 10M capability).


Hardpoints is the one thing that keeps the Summoner from being as flexible as the rest, remove that and you have a pretty freaking good chassis. Endo would make it seriously good if it had the hardpoints on top.

or we could actually allow for increasing it's capacity to fill those hardpoints with something beside small and medium laser vomit, or tiny missile rack vomit. Because of course, we need more mechs capable of both in the game....

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 May 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

or we could actually allow for increasing it's capacity to fill those hardpoints with something beside small and medium laser vomit, or tiny missile rack vomit. Because of course, we need more mechs capable of both in the game....

I don't think you understand the flaw of the mech currently. The reason other mechs have better firepower is because they can laser vomit better. Without that laser vomit those other mechs are in practically the same boat as the Summoner. While I agree the Summoner needs better quirks for the large weapon variants (Gauss+ERPPC cooldown quirks plox), but if you want it to have more firepower overall, you aren't going to find much without increasing its laser vomit potential (though Endo would allow for more DHS and be nice).

Without giving the Summoner access to some special large weapons or quirking damage you shouldn't ever expect firepower near Timber Wolf levels.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 24 May 2015 - 02:46 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

WM Quicksilver, on 24 May 2015 - 02:44 PM, said:

I don't think you understand the flaw of the mech currently. The reason other mechs have better firepower is because they can laser vomit better. Without that laser vomit those other mechs are in practically the same boat as the Summoner. While I agree the Summoner needs better quirks for the large weapon variants (Gauss+ERPPC cooldown quirks plox), but if you want it to have more firepower overall, you aren't going to find much without increasing its laser vomit potential (though Endo would allow for more DHS and be nice).

Without giving the Summoner access to some special large weapons or quirking damage you shouldn't ever expect firepower near Timber Wolf levels.

blahblahblahlaservomitblahblahblah.

There is a game beyond that. Laser vomit's days are numbered. Get used to that thought. Stop thinking ONLY about what fits the "NOW" Meta. And if all we plan to do is cater to that Meta, then indeed, there is no need to do anything at all.

Let's just focus on using those MetaMechs, and ignore the rest as inconsequential.

Even with Laser Vomit, it has 5 tons locked the TBR doesn't. That's fine because it doesn't need to be a humanoid TBR, and I sure don't want it to be. I want it to actually be a Summoner. The issue is we are in a game with Double Armor Plus+, where things like ammo levels are all the more crucial. Some of us would like the OPTION of doing something beside laservomit.

You are fine with everything being cookiecutter laservomit clones, apparently. Bully for you. Now let some of the rest of us actually play what we want to play, ALSO, since it no way takes away from your Meta.

And why shouldn't the Prime Pods get some serious "Quirkening"?

Hasn't exactly broken or OP'd the Hunchback or Centurion, two mechs that get along just fine despite being mostly devoid of Laser Vomit. (The HBK-4P being the exception, yet oddly currently the 4th most common version seen after GridIrons, 4Js and 4Gs). The only downside is to make use of a CN9-D like LB-X quirk, the SUmmoner would need that endo to have sufficient ammo.

Would it be Meta? No. Only way SMNs will be Meta is if the Poptart Meta returns. If you want Meta, you got TBRs and HBRs. There is no reason to force the Summoner into being a poor knockoff of those, to make it "useful".

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 May 2015 - 03:02 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 May 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

blahblahblahlaservomitblahblahblah.

There is a game beyond that. Laser vomit's days are numbered. Get used to that thought. Stop thinking ONLY about what fits the "NOW" Meta. And if all we plan to do is cater to that Meta, then indeed, there is no need to do anything at all.

Let's just focus on using those MetaMechs, and ignore the rest as inconsequential.

Even with Laser Vomit, it has 5 tons locked the TBR doesn't. That's fine because it doesn't need to be a humanoid TBR, and I sure don't want it to be. I want it to actually be a Summoner. The issue is we are in a game with Double Armor Plus+, where things like ammo levels are all the more crucial.

You blame a lot of things without understanding what exactly you are asking for.

You want the Summoner to have the concentrated firepower like it does in Lore (a few large weapons rather than myriad of support). Essentially meaning you want it to be the jumping big gun mech. Unfortunately because of all the balance mechanisms, some of the hardest hitting clan weapons were the Gauss and ERPPC. Due to the mechanics of the game those weapons aren't significant which goes far beyond just doubling armor. Not to mention without sized hardpoints, every other Clan mech is STILL GOING TO BE better for those big weapons without serious quirks even if Endo was unlocked because they unfortunately added the Timber Wolf S.

Bishop Steiner, on 24 May 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

Some of us would like the OPTION of doing something beside laservomit.

Even with those hardpoints, you would still have the option to not play laservomit, so not sure what this is aimed at unless it is aimed at more of the balance problem at large within the game with how effective laser vomit is overall....

Bishop Steiner, on 24 May 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

You are fine with everything being cookiecutter laservomit clones, apparently. Bully for you. Now let some of the rest of us actually play what we want to play, ALSO, since it no way takes away from your Meta.

I had to laugh at this, do you honestly think I enjoy the metawith just laservomit, hell no, it is boring (but incredibly effective) and so is the dominance of the Timber Wolf, but it is a product of terrible balance at the hands of PGI who don't understand their own game. It won't change until they understand the crux of the problem which will probably be never.

Quirk it heavier for big guns (cooldown since that is the only option with maybe some heat gen sprinkled in) and allow Endo to be unlocked and done you have what you want, another really good Clan heavy to shame even more IS mechs than it already does. Then for those of us who like versatility, give us some better hardpoints from future variants.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 24 May 2015 - 03:19 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Whatever dude, whatever.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 May 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

blahblahblahlaservomitblahblahblah.

There is a game beyond that. Laser vomit's days are numbered. Get used to that thought. Stop thinking ONLY about what fits the "NOW" Meta. And if all we plan to do is cater to that Meta, then indeed, there is no need to do anything at all.

Let's just focus on using those MetaMechs, and ignore the rest as inconsequential.

Even with Laser Vomit, it has 5 tons locked the TBR doesn't. That's fine because it doesn't need to be a humanoid TBR, and I sure don't want it to be. I want it to actually be a Summoner. The issue is we are in a game with Double Armor Plus+, where things like ammo levels are all the more crucial. Some of us would like the OPTION of doing something beside laservomit.

You are fine with everything being cookiecutter laservomit clones, apparently. Bully for you. Now let some of the rest of us actually play what we want to play, ALSO, since it no way takes away from your Meta.

And why shouldn't the Prime Pods get some serious "Quirkening"?

Hasn't exactly broken or OP'd the Hunchback or Centurion, two mechs that get along just fine despite being mostly devoid of Laser Vomit. (The HBK-4P being the exception, yet oddly currently the 4th most common version seen after GridIrons, 4Js and 4Gs). The only downside is to make use of a CN9-D like LB-X quirk, the SUmmoner would need that endo to have sufficient ammo.

Would it be Meta? No. Only way SMNs will be Meta is if the Poptart Meta returns. If you want Meta, you got TBRs and HBRs. There is no reason to force the Summoner into being a poor knockoff of those, to make it "useful".

Yeah it's tricky for a Summoner (or I'd argue most stock clan mechs) to pull tonnage out of its arse without sacrificing or downgrading weaponry. If it had its prime load out, and a reasonable amount of ammo to last in a 12 vs. 12 battle, then yes it'd be a lot more effective. But as it stands now, after spending 2 tons for max armor (if preferred) you've already had to downgrade something and still dealing with low ammo. As you mentioned with Double Armor issues, 15 shots of an lb10x just doesn't stretch enough, and 2 tons of LRM15 ammo vanishes just as quick, both with little to show for it afterwards and a couple of empty, heavy weapons.

The longer I play Metawarrior, the more I wish they'd just do something with stock mechs instead, because Metawarrior will never be able to be anything more than Metawarrior, regardless of maps or game modes.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

00ohDstruct, on 24 May 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

The longer I play Metawarrior, the more I wish they'd just do something with stock mechs instead, because Metawarrior will never be able to be anything more than Metawarrior, regardless of maps or game modes.

Stock only wouldn't change it away from Metawarrior, just what was meta.

[Bishop Steiner]

WM Quicksilver, on 24 May 2015 - 03:25 PM, said:

Stock only wouldn't change it away from Metawarrior, just what was meta.

this, sadly, is true.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 May 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

There is a game beyond that. Laser vomit's days are numbered. Get used to that thought.

I think it would take a lot for that to come true.

They could remove TBR & SCR from the game and Clan Lasers would still be a go to weapon - people will just use different mechs for it.

They can buff CUACs a touch so the spread mechanic isn't so bad compared to lasers, but Clan Lasers would still be a go to weapon.


They are tonnage efficient, they have a high damage per ton ratio - but most importantly they play very well at mid-range.


Without dramatically nerfing all Clan Laser weapons, not just chassis, those weapons aren't going anywhere.

Buffing CERPPCs could shift things some, but it's still not going to be a go to weapon without major, major changes.



I'm not saying whether this is good or bad. I want better ACs and better PPCs but also want decent lasers and don't want to see them neutered.

I'm not married to any particular game-play style, I'll play whatever works best and FWIW I preferred AC/Gauss + PPC meta over this.

[IraqiWalker]

Khobai, on 24 May 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:

Um youd still be able to re-add jumpjets. Youd just have the option to remove them. My solution helps ALL clan mechs that are plagued by locked jumpjets. All non-S omnipods would have unlocked jumpjets. While all S-omnipods would have locked jumpjets since S omnipods exist specifically for the purpose of adding jumpjets.

S-pods add JJs to the omnis that DON'T have JJs on the prime variant. All omni mechs come with the equipment of the prime mech hardlocked on them. If the prime had no jumpjets, then sure, you can slap some S-pods, and get JJs, if the prime has JJs, the only reason you'd put the S-Pods, is to get MORE JJs.

[Anakha]

Amazing how many people want to play the Summoner and how many huge threads there have been about it and PGI does absolutely nothing about it accept giving it some terribad quirks. Hopefully they unlock Endo and devote some dev time to improving this mech in the near future. Been out almost a year now.

[Bishop Steiner]

Anakha, on 24 May 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

Amazing how many people want to play the Summoner and how many huge threads there have been about it and PGI does absolutely nothing about it accept giving it some terribad quirks. Hopefully they unlock Endo and devote some dev time to improving this mech in the near future. Been out almost a year now.

Unlocked Endo, and some decent quirks to the C-ERPPC and C-LBX, and I would have my ultimate heavy mech. And buy, with IRL money, a second set for this account.

Prime RA
- C-ERPPC velocity boost 25%
- Cnergy Heat Reduction 20%

Prime LA
- Ballistics Cooldown 15%
- LB-10X Cooldown 15%
- LB-X Spread Reduction 10%

Don't want a cooldown on the ERPPC as it already runs the stock Prime hot. Use the LB-X for it's volume fire, which, if it had Endo, it would easily pack 2 more tons of LB-X Ammo to support the RoF. (Sure I'd love the 40% the CN9-D gets, but I'm trying not to be TOO greedy). Missiles don't need a quirk, as a tertiary system, IMO.

Getting a little more oomph out the JJs would not be frowned on....

And sadly, with all that, it would still be second rate.... but it would suit me to perfection.

And people could keep their laser vomit til the end of days, lol.


But it will never happen.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 May 2015 - 07:49 PM.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 May 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

And people could keep their laser vomit til the end of days, lol.

So does this mean you're "not" buying Resistance Two? ;

[Bishop Steiner]

00ohDstruct, on 24 May 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

So does this mean you're "not" buying Resistance Two? ;

had to.

After Russ and Alex fixed the head on the Wolfhound, I had to keep my word buy in. The Jumping Crab is kinda interesting, also.

Then I upgraded all the the new Zeus variant.

[IraqiWalker]

I love a lot of you guys, and I usually agree with you on most points, but I would rather they never unlock Endo for the Summoner, and instead make it work in a different way. Such as good quirks, and more pods.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

IraqiWalker, on 24 May 2015 - 09:42 PM, said:

I love a lot of you guys, and I usually agree with you on most points, but I would rather they never unlock Endo for the Summoner, and instead make it work in a different way. Such as good quirks, and more pods.

All you are doing with quirks is trying to makeup for the tonnage disparity, just in a hamfisted manner.

The Nova can actually be more heat efficient on several builds when compared to the Nova thanks to the quirks, which it may not have needed if you could mount Endo or Ferro to mount more DHS. Though the quirks have yet to quite overcome the bad geometry and speed/maneuverability disparity.