244 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Escef, on 23 May 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

One should for some reason be accommodating to misinformation that has been debunked multiple times since before Wave I released? Nope, not buying it.

Quickdraw Crobat, on 23 May 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

Save your hostility for people who were part of those conversations then. I can't read every topic on the board, and I don't expect anyone else to. I'm not sure why you're expecting me to.

[Escef]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 23 May 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

Save your hostility for people who were part of those conversations then. I can't read every topic on the board, and I don't expect anyone else to. I'm not sure why you're expecting me to.

If you somehow missed it before, all you have to do is say "mea culpa" and it's fine. Instead you decide to have a s***fit because someone corrected you.

You might need this.

Spoiler

[Tiamat of the Sea]

If you'd just said 'You're wrong', Escef, I would have gone with that. You didn't. You decided to put the extra effort in to be hostile.

[Escef]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 23 May 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

If you'd just said 'You're wrong', Escef, I would have gone with that. You didn't. You decided to put the extra effort in to be hostile.

Oh, 'tis no effort at all. If you think that's hostile than I envy you.

[Ragtag soldier]

the thor was designed to exploit the mobility provided by it's jump jets to conduct cavalry maneuvers.

PGI kind of removed the ability to use the jump jets in that (read:any) fashion so it's not that good. so players blame their not being able to remove the jets PGI is currently suppressing insted of the fact that PGI is suppressing them.

[Brody319]

I think we need to give the Summoner as bigger mana pool.

[Xetelian]

I really thought the Summoner would have been a better mech, I'm glad I didn't buy an invasion Summoner package and I feel bad for those that did.

This mech needs lots of buffs to get it out of the dog house.

[LordKnightFandragon]

lordtzar, on 22 May 2015 - 11:21 PM, said:

It doesn't translate into mwo well.

It doesn't have endo and has 5 tons worth of locked jumpjets.

Huge engine that can't be switched out.

It's non-missile hardpoints are pretty low.

LOL

Give the CERPPC 15/15, make JJ so they actually work right and lets see you still say that.

It only sucks cuz JJ are more like little noise makers, and CERPPC blows. Its prime variant would be brutal otherwise.

Summoner only blows in MWO cuz MWO has no idea what is going on....

[Nothing Whatsoever]

IMHO, the stock Prime build is a Victim of Circumstance, like Curly here,

Spoiler

One aspect is the Heat System.

For example, if we had dissipation properly doubled than 14 DHS would be able to hand the heat generated from the Summoner firing all three of its weapons (before factoring cooldown quirks and Fast Fire). So 0.4 from 14 DHS is 5.60 heat a second, where it currently generates 5.66 heat a second (before looking at quirks and Fast Fire). Current Dissipation from DHS is 2.94 when Elited.

And it would only spike 22 heat at a time at current values, so setting a lower Heat cap would not interfere with this build, if DHS dissipation would be improved and Heat Capacity lowered.



An alternative would then be to lower ERPC Heat Generation, through the use of quirks to allow HPS to better fit with current dissipation.

If the mech retains the combined 10% cooldown boost, than the Prime could make use of a combined 30% Heat reduction quirk to better work with current dissipation rates (and this can be done 20% ERPPC / 10% Energy and so on).

That percent value would bring that 15 heat down to 10.50 Heat and about 2.94 HPS, almost making the mech Heat neutral if it is only firing its ERPPC on a cold or heat neutral map (and without Fast Fire taken into consideration). If it would fire all three weapons than it's still gonna generate 17.5 Heat, 4.85 HPS if firing all three weapons continuously.

And if possible I'd allow this heat quirk to only apply to a single ERPPC, regardless of how many more might get added with a custom build, swapping in more energy hardpoints.

---

The second aspect is doubled armor and structure leaves it needing more ammo to deal damage with ammo dependent weapons.
For this, doubling values from the P&P values would boost it up.

I would rather not use quirks for this so raising LRM ammo to 240 missiles (from the current 180) and ballistic ammo to 20 (from the current 15), is what I'd consider first (and it would be a benefit for both IS and Clan mechs).

---

The third aspect is current Jump Jet implementation. I have some ideas on what I'd like to see, but at least allowing a longer burn duration for JJs, could be a decent help here.

---

The last problem is being able to dynamically raise armor values basically up to the weight class limits for all mechs. If we could have seen some dynamic limits below this max value than the Summoner at 364 wouldn't be so bad and could have seen minor boost to help out with it's MWO hit boxes.

So it could see more armor and structure quirkening to toughen it up a bit more.

Edited by Praetor Knight, 23 May 2015 - 12:05 PM.

[Zordicron]

K so I skipped the middle part of this thread that appeared to be about nerd rage. Following from page 1:

Lots o hate on this mech. it is true, it is not for everyone apparently, and it certainly requires some different approaches. to loadout and play.

remember when Tryhards all said Thunderbolts were complete utter tier 6 trash? yeah, so nothing changed about them except some weapon quirks(pretty potent ones though) and suddenly they had good hitboxes and were fairly quick enough etc to be a top notch mech. People will argue this, but the point is: a mech that was not the ubermeta was decried as utter trash when it wasnt, and the perceived faults were greatly exagerated. Once it became a hot topic because of how it handled it weapons, the perceived overblown faults all sort of melted and it was suddenly pretty solid with really good weapons.

i liken the Summoner to this. It isn't "bad" it is deifferent, and requires some creative loadouts to fit into different player's playstyles. It also isnt a TBR, and doesnt play like one, and a lot of people tried to run it that way because it was te only comparable chassis at clan launch.

Truth is, it is a giant well armored medium. You cant put 70 point alphas on it and play peek a boo. It isnt a good sniper. Never tried poptarting, but IMO it likely stinks at that too. it is a well rounded mech with exceptional speed for its size, really good hitboxes, and agility like a mech 25 tons lighter. It plays like a 90KPH Yen Lo Wang with Jump jets.

i run:
SSRM6 streak boat for lulz. Seriously though, streak crow has nothing on this mech as a SSRM boat. Roughly the same speed. But it has more armor, jump jets. SSRM boat itself requires special game play though, so it isnt some I win button(except against stupid light pilots)

that was just one variant though. my favorite loadout is 2x UAC5 one in each ST, 4 ERML with 2 in each arm. Play it like a medium, you arent supposed to lead the charge, you are supposed to flank and cover, pursue the fringe combatants to keep your fatty crew's flanks secure, and unload on targets of opportunity.

IMO, if they do anything with this mech, they should give it huge buffs to UAC jam chance. It really cant boat them, and putting two on sucks up a lot of it's pod space. So I dont see the harm, and would give it more reliable weapons besides hot running poor performing laser loadouts.

[Templar Dane]

Burktross, on 23 May 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

Dude, even I thought the TDR was op. Don't ***** out the Summoner. Make it a respectable mech like it deserves.

Do. You. Understand. The. Words. Coming. Out. Of. My. Mouth.

A pre-nerf thunderbolt 9S that can only ONLY ONLY fit a SINGLE PPC.

[Bishop Steiner]

Eldagore, on 23 May 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

IMO, if they do anything with this mech, they should give it huge buffs to UAC jam chance. It really cant boat them, and putting two on sucks up a lot of it's pod space. So I dont see the harm, and would give it more reliable weapons besides hot running poor performing laser loadouts.

that might make sense for the pods that actually packed UACs. Not so much for Gauss, LBX or PPC Pods.

[Anakha]

Don't know when they are doing the next quirk pass on Clan mechs but if they improve the quirks to actually be useful like the ammo per ton one that is supposedly coming, unlock endo, and add some more energy heat reduction and armor on the arms and torso's it would help a great deal. Wish PGI would devote some dev time to addressing the Summoners many shortcomings that's for sure.

[Burktross]

lordtzar, on 23 May 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

Do. You. Understand. The. Words. Coming. Out. Of. My. Mouth.

A pre-nerf thunderbolt 9S that can only ONLY ONLY fit a SINGLE PPC.

Er...
No?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...48bd3723bb9a9f8
Even with full armor you get this

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...abdb5f3f15b7896


Am I missing something here? Seriously.

Edited by Burktross, 23 May 2015 - 02:01 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Burktross, on 23 May 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

Er...
No?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...48bd3723bb9a9f8
Even with full armor you get this

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...abdb5f3f15b7896


Am I missing something here? Seriously.

8/8 omni pod bonus?

With 3 hardpoints, of which only 2 are useful, something big could be warranted.

[Burktross]

Mcgral18, on 23 May 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

8/8 omni pod bonus?

With 3 hardpoints, of which only 2 are useful, something big could be warranted.

I guess you could implement it as an 8/8 Omnipod bonus... but that just.... sucks....

Oh, wait, I know. Maybe give the left arm with 3E an -xx% PPC bonus quirk?

Edited by Burktross, 23 May 2015 - 02:05 PM.

[anonymous161]

I never bothered eliting it personally just doesn't compare to just about anything else in the same weight class or even lower.


...saying that though if they were to lower the laser duration for the large laser on that I imagine more people would use it more.

[Yokaiko]

Darth Bane001, on 23 May 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

I never bothered eliting it personally just doesn't compare to just about anything else in the same weight class or even lower.


...saying that though if they were to lower the laser duration for the large laser on that I imagine more people would use it more.

Not really, it barely has the weight to run x4 er-llas, they are low slung AND the mech is hot as hell, made worse by needing JJs to get a firing line.

[Bishop Steiner]

Burktross, on 23 May 2015 - 02:04 PM, said:

I guess you could implement it as an 8/8 Omnipod bonus... but that just.... sucks....

Oh, wait, I know. Maybe give the left arm with 3E an -xx% PPC bonus quirk?

actually pretty sure in the post he recommended it, he mentioned complete pod sets. So that would be 8/8 only, aka on a mech with a single ERPPC

Darth Bane001, on 23 May 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

I never bothered eliting it personally just doesn't compare to just about anything else in the same weight class or even lower.


...saying that though if they were to lower the laser duration for the large laser on that I imagine more people would use it more.

because what we need is MOAR large laser vomit

[Yokaiko]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

because what we need is MOAR large laser vomit

Well ER-PPC + LBX definitely isn't the business