90 replies to this topic

[speleomaniac]

Ok,

I love my Firestarters, they require a special play style if you want to be successful.

They are more of a vulture, all this lights you see in the begining who are rushing in the begining of a match, are not using this mech potential. Firestarter is there to rule at the end of the game. When there is lots of open armor, you go in and farm.

And my points, specially after the quirk rounds and 3 large lasers without ghost heat with IS mechs, you have to play every medium in the game also in this same way, before the quirks you have to watch out only for clan mechs with there huge 60 pts alpha but now when you are in medium mech every time you turn a corner you are in a risk of eating 45-60 alpha which will mean one shot and you have an open armor.

The rest of the game is just hiding, lately only success I have with mediums is playing like Firestater. If you are in a fast mech it is ok but if you are in a slow one like Hunchback or Wolverine good luck with that.

So before we had the problem of having huge alphas from clan mechs and now after the quirks from everybody.

I am asking myself would be that bad they cut the damage to half from every weapon system, yeah matches will get longer but would it be that bad? Why do we want such a low time on time to kill. Isn't more fun to act and react instead of one shot and over with it?

I hope it will not be flame war but why would you want to have that huge alphas, I sure it is fun to make that alpha but surely you are also receiving end of it time to time.

If we reduce the damage assault and being tanky would have a meaning also, instead riding an assault means I just can load more weapons.

Edited by speleomaniac, 26 May 2015 - 02:22 AM.

[Carrioncrows]

cutting damage in half would dramatically change how everything works. Easier to just double armor

[Juodas Varnas]

Carrioncrows, on 26 May 2015 - 12:26 AM, said:

cutting damage in half would dramatically change how everything works. Easier to just double armor

Double the armor AGAIN?
No thanks. I'd rather have the heat system redone.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 26 May 2015 - 12:32 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrioncrows, on 26 May 2015 - 12:26 AM, said:

cutting damage in half would dramatically change how everything works. Easier to just double armor

both are a bad idea.

And effectively, the results are the same. PaperCutWarrior: Online

Getting hit by a Gauss or AC20 is supposed to make you crap yourself.

The issue is one should rarely be getting hit by 2-3 in the same place at the same time.

All that would happen with either suggestion is to push the Meta back to packing as many small sized, high DPS weapons as possible, basically making every mech into plus sizes of the FS9.

[speleomaniac]

I see in lots of the games this mistake.

One of the classes get OP damages and every other class starts to whine Class X is OP.

So developer has 2 choices, either nerf the class X and upset the Class X players (specially if it is a goody paid with real money) or buff everything else to its level.

At the end, it is spiral that undermines the every other mechanic in the game.

So in my opinion, no, doubling the armor is not the answer while in first place it is not the problem.

[Brody319]

We have only one choice now.
We must SQUARE THE ARMOR!
Armor^2!

[speleomaniac]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 May 2015 - 12:33 AM, said:

both are a bad idea.

And effectively, the results are the same. PaperCutWarrior: Online

Getting hit by a Gauss or AC20 is supposed to make you crap yourself.

The issue is one should rarely be getting hit by 2-3 in the same place at the same time.

All that would happen with either suggestion is to push the Meta back to packing as many small sized, high DPS weapons as possible, basically making every mech into plus sizes of the FS9.

What are you saying is right, if very limitited of platforms can carry that weapon systems. So you pay a penalty for carrying that system, you are either too slow, too vulnerable.

But nearly every other platform carries that weapons without paying a penalty.

I can live with what you say if only a Direwolf, Atlas can carry that but as I said everytime you turn a corner, you can meet a Mech with 45 Alpha. I mean freaking Raven-2X can run around 3 x LL at it is viable.

[El Bandito]

Just reduce those ridiculous IS quirks, now that Timbie and Crow are nerfed. Starting from weapon quirks of Thunderbutt-5SS, Wolverine-6R, Dragon-1N, and Huginn etc... and armor quirks of mechs like Hunchback-4G --the hunch is no longer a weak point due to THIRTY additional HP! That's some stupid balancing act, considering the fact the 4G already got good AC20 range, speed and RoF quirks.

TTK will be reduced overnight.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 May 2015 - 01:42 AM.

[Jae Hyun Nakamura]

If double something, it's the heatgen of all weapons. First of all they would have to away from ghostheat and double up every weapons heat. Heat in Lore and BT is a really serious thing. Pilots just go unconcious or die because they not manage to control their heat properly.

Alone the heat doubling would slow the game down and bring it to a more strategic level imo. So yes, you still can shoot your weapons in under 2 seconds, but you risk a shutdown or crits...even dead.

The other case is, weapons like LL/ERLL/AC10+/LSR10+ would have a significant value on the Battlefield, but still not killing you with one alpha because of the risk of a shutdown, which makes you very vulnerable in this moment. There would be no players chargeing with fullspeed fireing all guns at once from the front. Positioning could have more value etc.

Peace

[El Bandito]

Jae Hyun Nakamura, on 26 May 2015 - 01:26 AM, said:

If double something, it's the heatgen of all weapons. First of all they would have to away from ghostheat and double up every weapons heat. Heat in Lore and BT is a really serious thing. Pilots just go unconcious or die because they not manage to control their heat properly.

Alone the heat doubling would slow the game down and bring it to a more strategic level imo. So yes, you still can shoot your weapons in under 2 seconds, but you risk a shutdown or crits...even dead.

The other case is, weapons like LL/ERLL/AC10+/LSR10+ would have a significant value on the Battlefield, but still not killing you with one alpha because of the risk of a shutdown, which makes you very vulnerable in this moment. There would be no players chargeing with fullspeed fireing all guns at once from the front. Positioning could have more value etc.

Peace

That will actually buff dual AC20, and weapons like Gauss will not be touched. Did you even give this a thought?

[Impyrium]

El Bandito, on 26 May 2015 - 01:18 AM, said:

Just reduce those ridiculous IS quirks, now that Timbie and Crow are nerfed. Starting from weapon quirks of Thunderbutt-5SS, Wolverine-6R, Dragon-1N, and Huginn etc... and armor quirks of mechs like Hunchback-4G --the hunch is no longer a weak point due to THIRTY additional HP! That's some stupid balancing act, considering the fact the 4G already got good AC20 range, speed and RoF quirks.

TTK will be reduced overnight.

If they touch my 4G, I know who I'm coming for.

[Kiiyor]

Carrioncrows, on 26 May 2015 - 12:26 AM, said:

cutting damage in half would dramatically change how everything works. Easier to just double armor

I vote for vastly increased internal structure, and a fleshed out crit system that actually means something.

I'd love for components to be hit and lose effectiveness as they are damaged. Longer burn times for lasers as they malfunction, chance of jamming for regular ballistics, engine power surges for damaged engines, random leg lockups for damaged actuators...

[Impyrium]

Kiiyor, on 26 May 2015 - 02:20 AM, said:

I vote for vastly increased internal structure, and a fleshed out crit system that actually means something.

I'd love for components to be hit and lose effectiveness as they are damaged. Longer burn times for lasers as they malfunction, chance of jamming for regular ballistics, engine power surges for damaged engines, random leg lockups for damaged actuators...

This is the best idea I've heard yet. You get that increased TTK and an enhanced feeling of that giant, very complex piece of machinery falling apart around you while at the same time still having meaningful and dangerous consequences for having a guass round embedding itself in your ST.

[Jae Hyun Nakamura]

AC20 gets the same buff as every other weapon in the game exept Gauss. This is not much a problem as you have only one really viable weapon without heat and you can manage balance through recharg time in this one example.

The double AC20 buff is also not a problem because all other mechs generate more heat automatically. I know you think of the double AC20 Jager, but...i watch this game always from a lore perspective and there never ever has been a double AC20 Jager. Only two mechs i can think of have this loadout in lore and it's the Kingcrab and the Pillager, both 100t mechs which can manage this ammount of heat compared to all the other hot mechs on the map whith a lower tonnage.

And still i see the heat as one of the most important things to double up instead of quirk, quirks, quirks

peace

EDIT: this one is a direct answer to El Banditos post, quote has not worked

Edited by Jae Hyun Nakamura, 26 May 2015 - 02:28 AM.

[Kiiyor]

AUSwarrior24, on 26 May 2015 - 02:24 AM, said:

This is the best idea I've heard yet. You get that increased TTK and an enhanced feeling of that giant, very complex piece of machinery falling apart around you while at the same time still having meaningful and dangerous consequences for having a guass round embedding itself in your ST.

Plus, losing the armour from a location won't force you to cower for the rest of the match. As it stands, having any torso open effectively removes most players from the fight.

[ArchSight]

To increase time to kill PGI just needs to stop the alpha strike all the time meta by forcing alpha strikes into only can be done once per engagement or shut down. By doing this it will enforce mechs to shoot one weapon after another which causes mechs to spread damage due to having to change aim on a moving target.

It's the alpha strike core mechanic issue that's causing laser vomit alpha strike mech builds to stand out as the best. Nerfing a few mechs, and weapons is not going to stop this meta. Duration on instant travel weapons is not going to change the amount of possible damage a player can hold on target while tracking their aim on it. Nerfing energy weapons is only going to fix balance between clan and I.S. energy weapons and will not change those current meta builds. Nerfing the mechs themselves is only going to pass the OP meta build onto another mech that can carry it. Increasing the hit points to chew through will only increase the want for high damage alpha striking mechs.

How they nerf the alpha strike has to cover all weapon loadouts. Including the low heat gauss rifle and AC builds. The Old Convergence Idea is not the answer but forcing chain fire in another way is. Increasing heat to all weapon combinations fired together is certainly part of the answer.

By punishing alpha strikes more often with extra heat it will turn it into a skill mechanic that makes chain firing a form of shooting out weapons while doing less heat. Chain fire right now is largely pointless when your mech could of been hiding behind cover cooling off or not staring at the target giving them easy shots to your mech's center torso.

End the alpha strike all the time to get the most fun TTK.

Edit: I also forgot that enforcing chain fire to be better than alpha striking also helps all mechs in the game in balance because not all mechs carry the same number of hard points to max out on the highest alpha strike possible. Mechs that have a lower amount of hard points which are given quirks to catch up to the missing dps of not having more weapons will become balanced under a chain fire meta. With alpha strike all the time meta it's not possible to be balanced because it's not a DPS match up. It's a who can fire the most damage ones before running back into cover.

Edited by ArchSight, 26 May 2015 - 03:32 AM.

[speleomaniac]

ArchSight, on 26 May 2015 - 03:08 AM, said:

To increase time to kill PGI just needs to stop the alpha strike all the time meta by forcing alpha strikes into only can be done once per engagement or shut down. By doing this it will enforce mechs to shoot one weapon after another which causes mechs to spread damage due to having to change aim on a moving target.

It's the alpha strike core mechanic issue that's causing laser vomit alpha strike mech builds to stand out as the best. Nerfing a few mechs, and weapons is not going to stop this meta. Duration on instant travel weapons is not going to change the amount of possible damage a player can hold on target while tracking their aim on it. Nerfing energy weapons is only going to fix balance between clan and I.S. energy weapons and will not change those current meta builds. Nerfing the mechs themselves is only going to pass the OP meta build onto another mech that can carry it. Increasing the hit points to chew through will only increase the want for high damage alpha striking mechs.

How they nerf the alpha strike has to cover all weapon loadouts. Including the low heat gauss rifle and AC builds. The Old Convergence Idea is not the answer but forcing chain fire in another way is. Increasing heat to all weapon combinations fired together is certainly part of the answer.

By punishing alpha strikes more often with extra heat it will turn it into a skill mechanic that makes chain firing a form of shooting out weapons while doing less heat. Chain fire right now is largely pointless when your mech could of been hiding behind cover cooling off or not staring at the target giving them easy shots to your mech's center torso.

End the alpha strike all the time to get the most fun TTK.

Edit: I also forgot that enforcing chain fire to be better than alpha striking also helps all mechs in the game in balance because not all mechs carry the same number of hard points to max out on the highest alpha strike possible. Mechs that have a lower amount of hard points which are given quirks to catch up to the missing dps of not having more weapons will become balanced under a chain fire meta. With alpha strike all the time meta it's not possible to be balanced because it's not a DPS match up. It's a who can fire the most damage ones before running back into cover.

Actually I like the idea, you can every alpha damage the core/engine because of energy suuge (lets say you have 60 Alpha you can 3 times alpha before you destroy your engine, if you have 40 alpha then 4 times etc...)

That will surely balance things...

[Joseph Mallan]

speleomaniac, on 26 May 2015 - 12:23 AM, said:

If we reduce the damage assault and being tanky would have a meaning also, instead riding an assault means I just can load more weapons.

I don't know about you, but packing more guns is the whole point of having an assault. You can wade in and Wump wump wump, 3 dead opponents. Timing is everything of course

[Carrioncrows]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 May 2015 - 12:33 AM, said:

both are a bad idea.

And effectively, the results are the same. PaperCutWarrior: Online

Getting hit by a Gauss or AC20 is supposed to make you crap yourself.

The issue is one should rarely be getting hit by 2-3 in the same place at the same time.

All that would happen with either suggestion is to push the Meta back to packing as many small sized, high DPS weapons as possible, basically making every mech into plus sizes of the FS9.

I never said it was a great idea. I just said it was simpler than trying to cut weapon damage in 1/2.

[Alistair Winter]

I think it's possible to increase Time To Kill while still making the AC20 and Gauss hurt as much as they do now. Just increase cooldown. This would make AC20-builds rely more on backup weapons (e.g. Atlas with lasers and missiles) whilst reducing the current trend of brawlers using sniping weapons (i.e. gauss rifles) to get higher DPS. The gauss rifle should, in my opinion, be a sniper rifle. It should not be a good option for a brawler.

But yeah, all the good solutions have been mentioned already. Change the heat system, increase internal structure, completely rework the crit system. Death in MWO should be more gradual. You start overheating, your mech gets more sluggish. You start losing actuators, you start losing weapons... ammo explosions... red lights, smoke, Betty listing warning after warning and finally, it's over.

Death is far too instant in this game, for my liking. Components fly off like people are being instagibbed by rocket launchers in Quake 1.