104 replies to this topic

[Simbacca]

For this Summer Heat Event (which I liked the free stuff), it is undeniable that the InnerSphere teams I played on were constantly loosing (only 1 win out of all the drops) due to:
=Trial Mechs
=Really Green Mechwarriors

I suggestion that a player needs 150 drops in solo or group queue before being permitted into CW. That way they have experience especially against Clan mechs, and hopefully have a decent drop deck of fully elited (or mastered) mechs.

Hopefully this will balance the teams better or the very least stop the unending slaughter.

Edited by Simbacca, 19 June 2015 - 04:58 PM.

[Richard Hazen]

Was in the same battle as you recently and it was horrible, equally I was team killed by a Davion from the unit Grog or something, deliberately as we were both by the spawn and I was the only other there.

[Livewyr]

Definitely should be some sort of measurement.

Perhaps 50 games solo (including the Cadet games)
25 games group queue? (This one is iffy because the moment you require someone to be come part of the community in some way, in order to play community warfare, the casuals begin to vibrate vigorously.)

[Simbacca]

Livewyr, on 19 June 2015 - 05:51 PM, said:

Definitely should be some sort of measurement.

Perhaps 50 games solo (including the Cadet games)
25 games group queue? (This one is iffy because the moment you require someone to be come part of the community in some way, in order to play community warfare, the casuals begin to vibrate vigorously.)

However, a lot of players, myself included are turned off to CW due to loss after loss after loss. My effective win rate is less than 10% (as I play against Clans). So what is the point of playing that mode when various InnerSphere players are practically guaranteed to loose. And this, I suspect is a contributing factor to the low CW population.

Hence for CW these are reflected by players who inflict less than 400 damage, have almost no assists and kills. If they had more experience before going into CW, they as well as the team will do better. And ultimately this helps CW.

Edited by Simbacca, 19 June 2015 - 06:35 PM.

[Tywren]

Simbacca, on 19 June 2015 - 06:35 PM, said:

However, a lot of players, myself included are turned off to CW due to loss after loss after loss. My effective win rate is less than 10% (as I play against Clans). So what is the point of playing that mode when various InnerSphere players are practically guaranteed to loose. And this, I suspect is a contributing factor to the low CW population.

Hence for CW these are reflected by players who inflict less than 400 damage, have almost no assists and kills. If they had more experience before going into CW, they as well as the team will do better. And ultimately this helps CW.

So your solution to an underpopulated CW, is to keep people out of CW? Let me guess, you also think you can spend your way out of debt, and **** your way into being a virgin, right?

[eSeifer]

I'll make you a deal.

Send me a PM with your play times and I'll personally find a unit that matches it and put you there (In Steiner space)

^ That is a real solution.

[Celtic Warrior]

Simbacca, on 19 June 2015 - 06:35 PM, said:

However, a lot of players, myself included are turned off to CW due to loss after loss after loss. My effective win rate is less than 10% (as I play against Clans). So what is the point of playing that mode when various InnerSphere players are practically guaranteed to loose. And this, I suspect is a contributing factor to the low CW population.

Hence for CW these are reflected by players who inflict less than 400 damage, have almost no assists and kills. If they had more experience before going into CW, they as well as the team will do better. And ultimately this helps CW.

This is probably because its so expensive to be a clan player most clan players are seasoned and have joined a unit. Therefore when you drop as an IS pug many times you're going up against seasoned organized players.

[Cyborx]

Tywren, on 19 June 2015 - 07:11 PM, said:

So your solution to an underpopulated CW, is to keep people out of CW? Let me guess, you also think you can spend your way out of debt, and **** your way into being a virgin, right?

It is one puzzle part of the solution to the problem! The low population emerges from the fact that solo players n newbies get butchered right from the start(many other reasons for low CW population are not topic of THIS thread)! New players test CW and 4 Trial mechs in those matches. Sure,they lose interest fast. Newbies and solo players are also ruining gameplay for organised players, cos butchering is damn stupid and boring!
Creating a CW-Access criteria would stop rookies from getting their interest burned to ash before they are ready.

Edited by Cyborx, 19 June 2015 - 10:09 PM.

[Count Zero 74]

How about attacking instead of wasting your time in pointless defence where you most likely get stomped by Clan premades?

On attack you have a far greater chance of facing a PUG team and you might even end up in match with a large premade in your team since most teams attack. (better chance to stomp some PUGS u see )

So just keep an eye on the queues on attack planets and jump in a match when you see a big group (lets say 6-10 man) waiting in queue.

Or some very weird suggestion:

How about using the Looking for group tool ?
I start some groups every day, mostly with friends of course but often enough we are just 10 or 11 but everytime I check the LFG is empty. Then you write in faction chat that a spot is open in a group and still noone answers.
So tbh I don't care about the whole PUG stomping anymore, some people just can't be helped and I really tried.

Edited by Count Zero 74, 19 June 2015 - 10:56 PM.

[Jumping Gigolo]

I agree with Cyborx. Rookies should be better off playing public matches than go straight to CW with trial mechs. I also agree with the CW-access criteria thing. Here's what I have in mind:

1. All players will have to unlock CW mode by playing pub games. An "experience bar" should be filled up so you can unlock CW mode. I suggest this experience bar is based on accumulated public match points.

2. Players with accounts starting from June 1, 2015 onwards will have to unlock CW mode. All the rest has theirs unlocked already.

3. Furthermore on #1, I suggest 3 thing to unlocks:

3.1) the ability to get invited in a CW group. Unlocking this will enable you to "LFG" for CW group. You can be able to play CW as long you are in a group. You must rack up 7,000 total public match points to unlock this feature.

3.2) the ability to create a CW group. A CW should have at least 4 players in it before you can launch. You must rack up 8,500 total public match points to unlock this feature.

3.3) the ability to solo drop at CW. There are really good solo players out. Its either they are really innate good PC gamers or are really veteran Battlech/old Mechwarrior gamers they can gel with anyone in CW and perform great without the need of formal comms. I've seen pugs who actually lead mix groups in several CW matches and won. But to unlock this feature you should rack up 10,000 public match points.

By the time a player unlocked the first CW feature he must have farmed enough and have a decent dropdeck and gained enough basic experience i.e. locking targets, moving with the group without stopping in the middle of the gate, focusing fire, efficient mechbuilding, not chasing that light mech... things like those.


Furthermore, I suggest PGI should make CW games "more interesting and rewarding" aside from getting free mechbays and rewards from faction loyalties. I can't think of anything at the moment but I feel CW games should have more incentives.

Edited by Jumping Gigolo, 19 June 2015 - 11:12 PM.

[H I A S]

Cyborx, on 19 June 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

It is one puzzle part of the solution to the problem! The low population emerges from the fact that solo players n newbies get butchered right from the start(many other reasons for low CW population are not topic of THIS thread)! New players test CW and 4 Trial mechs in those matches. Sure,they lose interest fast. Newbies and solo players are also ruining gameplay for organised players, cos butchering is damn stupid and boring!
Creating a CW-Access criteria would stop rookies from getting their interest burned to ash before they are ready.

CW is boring because most of the Time no Competition. You have to gimp yourself for having fun.
We need less Planets to fight for, so more Players in the Queue and we can match premade vs premade without to long waiting.

[Kin3ticX]

Well for starters, wouldnt hurt to lock out players that haven't finished their 25 cadet games.

[Acheron Blade]

All these lock out ideas don't really address the real problem which is veteran groups stomping newbies or disorganized pugs. Until that is removed, CW will always be an afterthought for most players.

Stomp games are pointless for the vet groups and totally demoralizing to the solo/new players. Put the solos/new against others like them and the vet groups against other vet groups.

[IraqiWalker]

Acheron Blade, on 20 June 2015 - 12:10 AM, said:

All these lock out ideas don't really address the real problem which is veteran groups stomping newbies or disorganized pugs. Until that is removed, CW will always be an afterthought for most players.

Stomp games are pointless for the vet groups and totally demoralizing to the solo/new players. Put the solos/new against others like them and the vet groups against other vet groups.

That could work, if it wasn't actually ineffective.

The problem here is with the players themselves, more than the mode (don't get me wrong, CW has some problems, but the biggest ones lie with the players themselves).

We have LFG. We have in-game VOIP, and literally every faction has it's own TS3 hub, PLUS the Comstar TS servers available to everyone, and always advertised. Yet people still refuse to coordinate, and still play solo rambo. There's no problem with dropping solo. I do it a lot. The biggest problem is in playing solo.

Also, if you think a solo only queue will solve it, you are sorely mistaken. Unit pilots can just queue up as solos on any planet, and still roflstomp the disorganized pugs.

The problem is with disorganized players, thinking they can beat an organized team, by running around like it's the public queue.

Since apparently people need to be hand held. We need to have faction teamspeak servers advertised in-client, to herd the solo players onto them, that way, they can coordinate with others, and start playing as a team.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 20 June 2015 - 12:50 AM.

[Antares102]

I would also say something like 100 games are needed before you are allowed to join CW.

[IraqiWalker]

100 Games + all 4 mechs in the deck need to be full elites. That should at least get the message across that this is a game mode where you need end-game content. Which would help the regular joe that has been in the game for all of 2 days, and still can't use a mech without arm lock from jumping in with a trial mech, and run into people with full modules, top of the line builds, fully mastered mechs, and communication, losing, and then complaining about how CW should be like the public queue.

[TWIAFU]

Simbacca, on 19 June 2015 - 06:35 PM, said:

However, a lot of players, myself included are turned off to CW due to loss after loss after loss. My effective win rate is less than 10% (as I play against Clans). So what is the point of playing that mode when various InnerSphere players are practically guaranteed to loose. And this, I suspect is a contributing factor to the low CW population.

Hence for CW these are reflected by players who inflict less than 400 damage, have almost no assists and kills. If they had more experience before going into CW, they as well as the team will do better. And ultimately this helps CW.

Teamwork = victory.

Even against Clans.

[TWIAFU]

IraqiWalker, on 20 June 2015 - 12:38 AM, said:

That could work, if it wasn't actually ineffective.

The problem here is with the players themselves, more than the mode (don't get me wrong, CW has some problems, but the biggest ones lie with the players themselves).

We have LFG. We have in-game VOIP, and literally every faction has it's own TS3 hub, PLUS the Comstar TS servers available to everyone, and always advertised. Yet people still refuse to coordinate, and still play solo rambo. There's no problem with dropping solo. I do it a lot. The biggest problem is in playing solo.

Also, if you think a solo only queue will solve it, you are sorely mistaken. Unit pilots can just queue up as solos on any planet, and still roflstomp the disorganized pugs.

The problem is with disorganized players, thinking they can beat an organized team, by running around like it's the public queue.

Since apparently people need to be hand held. We need to have faction teamspeak servers advertised in-client, to herd the solo players onto them, that way, they can coordinate with others, and start playing as a team.

I find it funny that solo/casual/non unit players claimed they could not or did not win because they did not have the tools to put them on even footing. Now that they have those tools, and do not use them, they must come up with more excuses why it is everyone else's problem that they are not winning.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Getting yet another obstacle get get new player away from CW is as wrong as it gets.
Instead of just luring newbies into CW to get butchered for free mechbays:

CW should come up with a proper CW trail-dropdeck, and with proper i mean proper, not just your average close to useless basic deathtraps.

4 mechs 4 classes 4 playstyles, newbfriendly loadout, unlocked elites.

CW should also give proper rewards for newer player to keep going.

I'd actually go as far a offering free champion mechs for a certain amount of games played
rank 3? free 3L light mech, rank 5? free 2H medium, rank 7 free 3D heavy.

Again, with a proper Trail-deck new player have a goal and fun reaching said goal (even if they lose the majority of their matches).

CW needs proper explanation, it doesn't have it right now. BUT i've seen it so often when a really fresh new player just asked his team by a simple "I'm new here, what to do?" and the team actually did explained the basics and guided the newer player(s) "stay with us, attack the gates. push when we push. be tacticool now". VoIP had make that so much easier now.

Sure, not like those new players carring the game but the do can be guided and contribute towards winning while learning the Gamemode.



This from the Last minutes of Tukayyid, while this player isn't as fresh as it gets, he doesn't know the CW modes to well and didn't own that many Clan'mechs at the time of recording.

I'm really thankful that he joined us in that game and for sending us a link to the recording.

@ 5:50 you can see how a Pug player in a trailmech can contribute towards the victory.
I didn't realised it in the game but he was drawing the attention with his direwolf trail so our heavy lance could get in a good position without taking much damage and our light lance could slip though completely unnoticed.

[IraqiWalker]

I don't think you understand why some of us are asking for these restrictions. Right now, any new player can get into CW, and that's not good, not good at all. They don't even know how to handle the regular public queue yet. Hell, they don't even know how to pilot their mechs yet. Even if they can pull decent numbers with a trial mech. They can't do that consistently. One good drop does not excuse 10 bad ones.

Yes we need tutorials, yes we need good trial mechs. HOWEVER: CW is not a mode for new players. It's bad enough that they still have difficulty with piloting their mechs, now they're being pitted against coordinated veterans with full end-game content. That can be hard enough in the Public queue, but in CW, it's absolutely brutal. The tech difference is too high.


Lack of coordination still reigns supreme. The video you posted, shows a new player that asked for tips, and wanted to work with the team. Exactly the kind of solo player I'd like to see more of in CW. However, for every one of him, we have 100 derps who play like it's the public queue, get butchered, and want CW to be turned into Public queue 2.0