387 replies to this topic

[Pariah Devalis]

There are two types of LRM players: Parasites and symbiotes. "Hold locks please" indicates a parasite. A drag on the team that hides near the back, making his or her teammates take all the risk while reaping a disproportionate reward. A symbiotic LRM player though? Stays 250-600 meters into the fight. Is willing to take their share of the damage and obtain their own locks. Hilariously, symbiotic players get more reliable damage output and make much more of a difference in a game vs parasites, yet parasitic players make up the bulk of LRM players out there.

TL;DR: Hold locks = selfish parasitic players. Get your own damned locks.

[DAYLEET]

It's the sniper syndrome, im god, but you guys have to do what i say or it(me) crumbles apart.

I use lrm all the times and i make sure i can either expend a lot of lrm(when slow) or am able to keep my own lock and i always have backup weapons. Ive not seen anyone ask for lock since last year though.

[Tombstoner]

Just remove the team mate requiared lock mechanic and let LRMS target who ever since no one uses them....
Part of the problem with LRM's is the team mate lock.. they don't hold it. its unrelyable.

[Bishop Steiner]

Astrocanis, on 29 May 2015 - 11:32 AM, said:

This I do agree with. If only direct fire is supported, they are entirely useless. They are situationally useful without locks. Nothing more.

And those situations would be far fewer in between then they are now.

My favorite is some self proclaimed "high skill" players who don't seem to grasp the concept of moving cover, who rage and cry over all chat after they get killed by "****in no skill lrm noobs"!.

I'd submit, to actually be EFFECTIVE with LRMs, considering how long you have to hold those locks, and how many mechanisms there are to break them in game, and how inefficient LRMs tend to be for actually killing things.... that those who can do well with them, in general take at least as much skill as the DireWolf that drops 50 PPFLD in a shot to one location.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 29 May 2015 - 11:37 AM.

[Deathlike]

masCh, on 29 May 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

All these comments are hilarious.

If you call the LRM carrier a waste of a slot, how do you make of games like these when the LRM Catapult got more than half the kills for the team and turned the match around from losing to winning?

I like how you quote me out of context, and I never said they were a waste of a slot.

However, please continue.

[masCh]

Deathlike, on 29 May 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

I like how you quote me out of context, and I never said they were a waste of a slot.

However, please continue.

You did not, but many others did. I read the likes as saying it too. You did say everyone should bring their own TAG. That's not the TAG's purpose is it? LRMs are very good to force an enemy to disengage. Have you seen the video?

[MechWarrior3671771]

"Ignore the fool telling him to disco."

Well, he probably already had ignored the fools 20 times that day. I no longer boat LRMs, but I've seen too many players catch grief in chat simply for letting their team know they need teamwork to be more effective. I can't imagine what it must be like to deal with the idiots every time you say "hold locks pls". I'm betting this was the final straw for that player. Can't really blame him for the disco.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 29 May 2015 - 11:41 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Pariah Devalis, on 29 May 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

There are two types of LRM players: Parasites and symbiotes. "Hold locks please" indicates a parasite. A drag on the team that hides near the back, making his or her teammates take all the risk while reaping a disproportionate reward. A symbiotic LRM player though? Stays 250-600 meters into the fight. Is willing to take their share of the damage and obtain their own locks. Hilariously, symbiotic players get more reliable damage output and make much more of a difference in a game vs parasites, yet parasitic players make up the bulk of LRM players out there.

TL;DR: Hold locks = selfish parasitic players. Get your own damned locks.

largely agree, though if you want the symbiot to be most effective, holding locks WHEN POSSIBLE" only amplifies their usefulness to the whole team. But then a symbiotic team isn't worried about their individual epeens to begin with, but doing whatever it takes to win the match.

[Vandul]

[EgoSlayer]

Deathlike, on 29 May 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

I like how you quote me out of context, and I never said they were a waste of a slot.

However, please continue.

In his defense, the first quote in his post from McGral18 says they are a waste of a player slot so there is no out of context quote on his end

Edited by EgoSlayer, 29 May 2015 - 11:42 AM.

[Deathlike]

masCh, on 29 May 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

You did not, but many others did. I read the likes as saying it too. You did say everyone should bring their own TAG. That's not the TAG's purpose is it? LRMs are very good to force an enemy to disengage. Have you seen the video?

Everyone with LRMs generally do need to bring their own TAG. Increasing the concentration of damage to the CT (especially with Artemis) or just cutting through ECM is very important.

In most cases, bad teams react poorly to LRM, and that has always been the case. The proper counter is essentially charge them ASAP and force the LRM user(s) to disengage.

Passive teams tend to get destroyed, and LRM are great vs passive teams.

[Bishop Steiner]

Aloha, on 29 May 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

Last night in a PUG drop, one LRM player on my team types a simple request: "Hold Locks Please". It's a simple enough request, and not that uncommon. However, another player types "How about getting your own locks?", which leads to the LRM player to respond if the second player would like him to leave the match. The second player responds "Yes, please", and the LRM player complied. We already have one D/C, so now we're down 2 players.

Now I don't play LRMs very often, but I do it once in a while just to mix things up. I no longer remind the team to hold locks precisely due to that attitude towards LRM players. I admit I have seen some bad LRM players who just sit way back waiting for his teams to lock targets for them, but I've also seen good LRM players who are very effective in providing fire support and keeping the enemy pinned with LRMs. I feel that this hostility towards LRM players is unjustified and foolish. I would rather have a bad LRM player than playing the match short one player. At the very least he'll serve as canon fodder and absorb some damage, and maybe even strip off a few points of armor off an enemy.

Honestly, if you dislike LRM as a weapon system, then don't use it, but to tell your own team mate to leave the match is a disservice to your own team.

I've been on the other side of the spectrum quite a few times. I never ask for people to hold locks, if I am LRMing, because well, as you point out, douchery is pretty common. Plus, if my team is too stupid or spiteful to try to make the LRMs more effective (I know players who intentionally won't lock targets so LRMnoobs won't steal their kill), I figure the team deserves to lose anyhow.

That said, a lot of "LRMboats" are sit in the back and let someone else do all the work cowards. THAT having been said, in solo queue, so are 90% of the players who just hide, and peek, and wonder why the opfor wins.

Back to the main point though, is how often I get grief for bringing a NARC Light Mech. I'm not a good light mech jock. Only one I do well in tends to be the Urbanmech. But I am a pretty decent spotter and scout, which is what Light Mechs, are supposed to be (though PGIs stupid reward methodology does little to encourage that). So sometimes, if the Medium Queue is heavy, I'll run a spotter. And so I'll ask at beginning "Narc her, any LRMs" to see how aggressively I should pursue narcing the opfor. (Hint narcing the enemy team, even without LRMs provides useful information...IF your team has the balls to actually make use of that intel. Most don't)

Yet all too often, all I hear back is "i don't carry (insert profanity of choice here) LRMs!" or "Lrms are for ******", etc.

A lot of players, in short, are short sighted, myopic, epeen stroking idiots.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"It is not my duty to hold any locks, I do what I have to do to stay alive and kill the enemy. This does not involve running after mechs that might lead me into a bad position, this does not involve to hold a lock on a minor threat if an even bigger one appears in my sights and it most certainly not involves for me to risk my arse"

That's not what I get when I hear "hold locks pls". What I hear is "hey team mate, if you have the opportunity to lock on to an enemy at range and its no risk to you, it will be really cool if you could try to keep the lock held for my missiles".

Its also really sweet when I am soloing an enemy that's twice my tonnage, and he's eating missiles while trying to fight me.

[masCh]

Deathlike, on 29 May 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

Everyone with LRMs generally do need to bring their own TAG. Increasing the concentration of damage to the CT (especially with Artemis) or just cutting through ECM is very important.

In most cases, bad teams react poorly to LRM, and that has always been the case. The proper counter is essentially charge them ASAP and force the LRM user(s) to disengage.

Passive teams tend to get destroyed, and LRM are great vs passive teams.

I only wish you see the video so we can discuss how the LRMs caused the enemy Warhawk and the other heavy to disengage from our Atlas and other teammates as soon as they got the "Incoming Missile" warning message. If passive team gets destroyed then it does not relate to making LRM useless does it? Even further certainly not cause to say a waste of a slot.

[Bishop Steiner]

Fenrisulvyn, on 29 May 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

"It is not my duty to hold any locks, I do what I have to do to stay alive and kill the enemy. This does not involve running after mechs that might lead me into a bad position, this does not involve to hold a lock on a minor threat if an even bigger one appears in my sights and it most certainly not involves for me to risk my arse"

That's not what I get when I hear "hold locks pls". What I hear is "hey team mate, if you have the opportunity to lock on to an enemy at range and its no risk to you, it will be really cool if you could try to keep the lock held for my missiles".

Its also really sweet when I am soloing an enemy that's twice my tonnage, and he's eating missiles while trying to fight me.

sounds like a good Light or fast Medium Mech jock mentality to have. What boggles my mind are the number of Lights who are in a death circle outside LoS, 7-800 meters away who won't try to hold a lock so their team can help them. Forget your personal epeen, get that enemy dead fast, so we can get back to killing the rest of their team.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"Back to the main point though, is how often I get grief for bringing a NARC Light Mech."

Heh. I'm a light pilot who refuses to pack NARC. Not enough bang for my buck in a light, imho.

But we just lost a close match today, and getting NARCed is what made the difference.

[Bishop Steiner]

Fenrisulvyn, on 29 May 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

"Back to the main point though, is how often I get grief for bringing a NARC Light Mech."

Heh. I'm a light pilot who refuses to pack NARC. Not enough bang for my buck in a light, imho.

But we just lost a close match today, and getting NARCed is what made the difference.

I've actually seen good teams get folded by a good sneaky NARC/LRM combo, (note I said good team, not 12 man Comp Zerg Rush) on more than one occasion. Though it's admittedly situational (Seems to happen best on Caustic, Alpine and Canyon Network). But a well supported Ninja NARCer can raise merry, delightful anarchy amidst the Opfor, if the team takes advantage of it.

It's becoming more difficult now as more and more overlapping ECM proliferates, though. Makes me consider packing TAG on the NARC chassis now, too, but the drawback is you kinda give yourself away unless the ecm is behind everyone else.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 29 May 2015 - 11:59 AM.

[Zeusus]

Fenrisulvyn, on 29 May 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

That's not what I get when I hear "hold locks pls". What I hear is "hey team mate, if you have the opportunity to lock on to an enemy at range and its no risk to you, it will be really cool if you could try to keep the lock held for my missiles"..

I think most players will hold locks when it makes sense too, at least they do in the games I'm in, and that's without being asked. So either the missile boat in your example is insulting our intelligence or they are needlessly stating the obvious.

[masCh]

I don't ask teammates to hold locks either, because I have not use LRMs much because I feel other weapons are better. It was only after the Catapult tournament that I thought wow maybe I've dismissed LRMs too much. But still I'd only use LRM in that C1 Catapult.. I take weapon systems I prefer better in other mechs.

Zeusus, on 29 May 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

I think most players will hold locks when it makes sense too, at least they do in the games I'm in, and that's without being asked. So either the missile boat in your example is insulting our intelligence or they are needlessly stating the obvious.

I think too many people refuse to press the R key because they do not want LRM to support them. I've seen too many while spectating and many people refuse to press the R key so that they can get solo kills but end up losing. The "hold locks please" is a fair request so that these players think of the team, and at least remind newer players that the R key can be useful.

[Mcgral18]

masCh, on 29 May 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

All these comments are hilarious.

If you call the LRM carrier a waste of a slot, how do you make of games like these when the LRM Catapult got more than half the kills for the team and turned the match around from losing to winning?

1000 missiles, 1000 damage.
How many of those were completely useless?

Shooting at unlocked targets, not group firing the missiles, only 2 weapon groups.

Shooting at the wrong components to pad damage.

Trial mechs, LBx mechs, LRM cents.

Most kills vultured. Still, 9 is an impressive number. Also my high; 10 is hard to get.



Which is the PUG LIFE.


I don't see much impressive gameplay there; just inefficient use of weapons.

Edited by Mcgral18, 29 May 2015 - 12:37 PM.