117 replies to this topic

[Gooner]

My best performances in terms of win/loss, kill/death and damage are pretty much always in my 2 Stalkers. I've got one set up with 2x LRM20, 2x LL, 2x ML and the other with 2x LRM20, 2x PPC, 2x ML.

I only use them in the shorter game modes though. In CW I prefer to bring my Battlemaster & Thunderbolts which have more lasers, so I don't run out of ammo and end up being useless.

[Xetelian]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...91bc52527f2145e

Best I can do as far as LRM boating is concerned.

How is it? I think it rocks. Enough missiles to support the team and deny areas and enough lasers to punch anyone that comes close.

[Ovion]

Oh... ffs.
I had written out a long and in depth post, then MWO logged me out as I hit post and deleted it all.
Dammit.

Short version -
I'm primarily a support / direct support pilot, I specialise in Light Mechs and LRM Mechs.

LRMs are good, and I have great experience with them, but you have to be agressive with them, know the maps both on the ground and vertically, and while using the teams locks is nice, don't rely on them - get into tagging position if you have TAG or not, and keep moving.

Also - Adders are AMAZING, especially as super-agressive missile boats.
They're a light, letting you bypass the queue, they're small letting you take advantage of cover with duck and weave, and they're good at all ranges.
Everything the Catapult wishes it could be at half the size.

[bad arcade kitty]

well, i sometimes play lurmfox (http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4b6d152389ffde0) in pugs, mostly because it's very relaxing to play, and my cw deck it's 1 or 2 lurmfoxes and 2-3 streakcrows
it's a pretty effective build overall, pretty annoying to play against too

[Vandul]

Played my CPLT-1(F) for the Founders challenge. 25+ matches, just as effective as she ever was.

Played my Phoenix Wolverine (3xALRM10) for the Phoenix challenge. 30+ matches, same same.

Targeting is a bit tougher now with the proliferation of ECM, but I have always been a "right up with the biggies" kind of player. I prefer to keep my missile range 250-320 to minimize flight time, and enable me to tag, narc or simply lock targets.

My BLR-1S is full of tubes (50), but I just dont play her as much as I used to. Pretty sure it would be terribly ineffective now.

[Ovion]

bad arcade kitty, on 29 May 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:

well, i sometimes play lurmfox (http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4b6d152389ffde0) in pugs, mostly because it's very relaxing to play, and my cw deck it's 1 or 2 lurmfoxes and 2-3 streakcrows
it's a pretty effective build overall, pretty annoying to play against too

Try dropping the 10 to a 5.
It'll let you mount more ammo and/or a pair of MGs.

CLRM10s are the least efficient Launchers for clans.
The weight to damage ratio, and sustainability is better with the 15+5, or 2x15,but on the Kit Fox, I'd favour the former.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ovion, on 29 May 2015 - 04:21 PM, said:

Try dropping the 10 to a 5.
It'll let you mount more ammo and/or a pair of MGs.

CLRM10s are the least efficient Launchers for clans.
The weight to damage ratio, and sustainability is better with the 15+5, or 2x15,but on the Kit Fox, I'd favour the former.

only use LRMpacks ending in 5 (aka 5 or 15) if I can help it. That goes for all weight classes and tech bases.

[Jman5]

I avoided LRMs for years. Barely touched, them and basically bought into the conventional wisdom that they were bad. However back in December I decided to drop my preconceived notions and give them a serious test.

Boy was I wrong. In the current environment they were amazing. High damage, superior survival in this new clan era of 50-80 alpha strikes. They give you tactical advantages that are impossible to pull off with any other weapon type. What's more is that they are better against bigger targets which is important since almost every game breaks the 3/3/3/3 release valve in favor of heavies and assaults. Best of all, they were fun!

I think what I find so frustrating about this whole discussion is two-fold.

First is that people who argue against LRMs have no idea what they are talking about. I am happy to listen to their opinions and theorycraft a little, but they simply don't have recent experience trying to seriously make LRMs work. Or if they do, they halfass their build and modules.

Second reason is that I have 5 months of positive experience playing the HBK-4J. I consistently do ridiculously well with this thing. So when people tell me my mech is bad I'm left scratching my head wondering what planet they are from.

If you guys want to disagree with me fine, but give me an objective litmus test to prove their viability. If you can't do that then you're no different than a flat-earther putting his fingers in ears when evidence is submitted.

I guess I shouldn't get so worked up over this. I benefit directly from the fact that this community treat LRMs as a joke.

[Ragtag soldier]

i literally just got out of a match with an LRM assault. they were virutally useless since most of the other team had radar derp, and when i got close my entire team left the guys shooting at me alone to chase lights. i eventually killed them but i spent more of that match getting shot with missiles than shooting them.

[El Bandito]

Alistair Winter, on 29 May 2015 - 12:44 PM, said:

TL;DR - If you have tried playing with an LRM boat lately, I want to hear from you. Did you perform poorly, average or above average?

Have you seen the amount of ECM mechs per match? Even if I do try my best and get more damage than two guys next to me, LRMs are such a spread out weapon that it takes ages to kill someone, unless you pack LRM5s.

Jman5, on 29 May 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

Second reason is that I have 5 months of positive experience playing the HBK-4J. I consistently do ridiculously well with this thing. So when people tell me my mech is bad I'm left scratching my head wondering what planet they are from.

Doing well in a HBK-4J is nothing to brag about, since the mech is over-quirked. I own a 4J, and I can fall asleep mid game and get 800+ damage with that thing. Try playing Lurmhawk, or WVR-7K instead.

Bishop Steiner, on 29 May 2015 - 04:23 PM, said:

only use LRMpacks ending in 5 (aka 5 or 15) if I can help it. That goes for all weight classes and tech bases.

Unless your mech is quirked for it, I prefer LRM10 over LRM15. LRM15 requires Artemis to not waste missiles due to wide spread, where as LRM10, while less tonnage efficient by itself, does not require Artemis to have tight enough spread. That goes double for Clan launchers, since CLRM15 streams longer than CLRM10, thus lessening its advantage of bigger load per salvo.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 May 2015 - 05:08 PM.

[OznerpaG]

i drop in 1 or 2 matches in my BLR-1S LRM mech every time i have a play session and even though i'm past my obsessive LRM mode and in obsessive LPL mode i still love playing LRM games because like you said Alistair it's a license to print CB. even in bad LRM games i make as much CB as i do with a direct fire good game, and on good LRM games i rake in the space cash. back when i was all in on LRMs my CB account grew like mad, and now that i'v been in direct fire mode it's been shrinking to a shadow of what it used to be

LRMs are a different game and you have to change your approach to the game to do well with them. if you trash LRMs it's because are too stubborn to change your approach or you never even tried

[Jman5]

El Bandito, on 29 May 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

Doing well in a HBK-4J is nothing to brag about, since the mech is over-quirked. I own a 4J, and I can fall asleep mid game and get 800+ damage with that thing. Try playing Lurmhawk, or WVR-7K instead.

As opposed to doing well with a laser vomit build in a mech with high laser quirks? Or in a clan mech with quirks and higher damage weapons?

If you're going to dismiss LRMs because there are some nicely quirked mechs, you will have to dismiss lasers and ballistics.

[El Bandito]

Jman5, on 29 May 2015 - 04:56 PM, said:

As opposed to doing well with a laser vomit build in a mech with high laser quirks? Or in a clan mech with quirks and higher damage weapons?

If you're going to dismiss LRMs because there are some nicely quirked mechs, you will have to dismiss lasers and ballistics.

What you and PGI does not understand is that quirks are just band-aid, not solution to core weapon balance. Same deal with those hyper LBX quirks on the Cent-D, or PPC quirks on the Awesome. Claiming LRMs are fine just cause you play the 4J, is like claiming PPCs are fine cause you play the Awesome-8Q. That's simply mistaken.

Finally, you claim to have picked up Lurms in the last 5 months. I have been maining Lurm mechs since Beta.
I know it ups and downs, and how they stack as a weapon compared to other weapons, more than most. LRM is a very situational weapon with too much tonnage/space investment. Not to mention the additional mandatory ATD module, BAP/CAP, and TAG.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 May 2015 - 05:31 PM.

[Jman5]

El Bandito, on 29 May 2015 - 05:05 PM, said:

Wrong again, Batman. Lasers on an un-quirked mechs are still much more viable weapon than LRMs on un-quirked mechs. Just cause people dismiss AMS and then get NARCed to hell, doesn't mean LRMs as weapon is anything worth the tonnage, unless you like to farm C-Bills, or be useless in many matches.

What you and PGI does not understand is that quirks are just band-aid, not solution to core weapon balance. Same deal with those hyper LBX quirks on the Cent-D, or PPC quirks on the Awesome. Claiming LRMs are fine just cause you play the 4J, is like claiming PPCs are fine cause you play the Awesome-8Q.

Finally, you claim to have picked up Lurms in the last 5 months. I have been playing Lurm mechs since Beta.
I know it ups and downs, and how they stack as a weapon compared to other weapons, more than most.

So LRMs can only be viable if I pick a mech specifically unquirked and then put it against quirked mechs using their quirked weapons? Or Clan mechs using their clan weapons?

So if I can do "well" in an unbasic'd warhawk with LRMs then it means LRMs are fine?

[El Bandito]

Jman5, on 29 May 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

So LRMs can only be viable if I pick a mech specifically unquirked and then put it against quirked mechs using their quirked weapons? Or Clan mechs using their clan weapons?

So if I can do "well" in an unbasic'd warhawk with LRMs then it means LRMs are fine?

In a way. Quirks are supposed to be a crutch for bad mechs only, but it got out of hand real fast thanks to PGI trying to make those mechs as effective as pre-nerf Timbie and Crows, and making a mess of it in the process. Now that those two offenders are nerfed, the IS quirks need to be scaled back.

A weapon should only be considered viable if a mech with enough hardpoints can do well with it without quirks. If you do well consistently in a Lurmhawk (by that I meant the Shadow Hawk, not Warhawk--Warhawk is flatly better off using energy weapons), then LRMs are in good position. You will find it a much different experience compared with the over-quirked 4J, however.

Lurms as of right now, simply requires too much to be effective. Unless your opponents are wood league scrubs.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 May 2015 - 05:59 PM.

[Daiichidoku]

my tbt 7m got its first 1000+ (1009) damage match a couple days ago..TAG makes life sweet, too

gonna start using my rvn 3l narc'r too

[Jman5]

El Bandito, on 29 May 2015 - 05:45 PM, said:

In a way. Quirks are supposed to be a crutch for bad mechs only, but it got out of hand real fast thanks to PGI trying to make those mechs as effective as pre-nerf Timbie and Crows, and making a mess of it in the process. Now that those two offenders are nerfed, the IS quirks need to be scaled back.

A weapon should only be considered viable if a mech with enough hardpoints can do well with it without quirks. If you do well consistently in a Lurmhawk (by that I meant the Shadow Hawk, not Warhawk--Warhawk is flatly better off using energy weapons), then LRMs are in good position. You will find it a much different experience compared with the over-quirked 4J, however.

Ok so if I can do well in a mech you have said by your own admission is "flatly better off using energy weapons" then it means there is something to the weapon platform?

[Milocinia]

I have a full set of TBR chassis, one of them configured as a 4xlrm10 4xerml tag lurm boat. I also have an MDD configured as 6xlrm5 4xerml. So in each scenario I have some firepower not to rely on being solely a boat.

I have moderate success in them, no more so than any of my other mechs really. They take a specific playstyle to work effectively, especially when there are multiple targets available.

You have to think about positioning and your backup weapons, what you're capable of in an ambush. You have to watch and support the team and move with them, not just hang back and sling missiles.

It takes a team effort for any lurm boater to be effective but that lurmer can only be effective if he moves with the team (and not expect to be backed up). Move on the fringes by all means but if you sleep and get left behind then it's your own fault.

If I don't get enough locks then I don't blame the team. They have a lot of their own things to worry about without facetiming targets for me. I usually don't even announce I'm a lurmer because it might encourage our lights to be more risky to hold locks.

When it comes to damage and the tonnage trade-offs required for lurms, I really think it's in the right place now. It took PGI a lot of tries to get there but I really believe the current setup is fine for an indirect fire weapon.

As for lurmers complaining, well the team will always usually do what it can. If you want more then you have to go out and get it yourself.

[Deathlike]

Alistair Winter, on 29 May 2015 - 12:44 PM, said:

Yeah, sorry, I'm starting another LRM thread. I know there's one on the front page already, but it's specifically about hostility towards the "gief target locks plz" players, and that's a separate discussion.

This thread is about you.

I want to know if you have played an LRM boat lately. Not just a match here and there. Have you tried playing 10 or 20 or 30 matches with an LRM boat in the last month or so? If so, what was your experience? I'm eager to hear from people who actually tried playing with an LRM boat in pub matches during the last month or so.

• If you haven't played an LRM boat lately, I'm not really that interested. If you have all sorts of arguments about why LRMs are bad, that's cool, but I know what you're going to say.
  
• If you have played an LRM boat lately and done well, I want to hear from you.
  
• If you have played an LRM boat lately and been smashed and humiliated, I want to hear from you.

I'm asking, of course, because I have tried an LRM boat lately. On a quest to buy the last missing mechs in my collection, I went back to my AWS-8R to farm C-bills. And let me tell you, this mech basically prints money. Forget hero mechs for farming C-bills. TAG + LRMs = mucho dineros.


But more than making money, I was struck by just how devastating my AWS-8R has been in puglandia. Maybe my Elo has been dragged through the mud when I was levelling my Highlanders, but I don't think I've fallen all the way to the steering wheel underhive, because I do keep seeing a lot of you guys in my matches. Names I recognize.

And I'm not just spreading damage and wasting an assault slot, before you ask. I'm consistently getting more kills and doing more damage than other assault mechs, while my win lose ratio is steadily improving. I don't think I'm getting paid at the expense of my teammates, I think my LRM boat is a pretty significant positive factor for our team.

I do consider it likely that LRM boats are bad against the best players in the game. Or at least, very difficult to use. But the best players in the game are a very small minority, in this regard. I do think most teams in the pug queue struggle real hard against good LRM boats. Maybe if I keep playing, I will eventually meet better teams who have no problems against my LRMs. But so far... well, I'll spare you the screenshots, but I'm rippin and tearin'.

TL;DR - If you have tried playing with an LRM boat lately, I want to hear from you. Did you perform poorly, average or above average?

To be fair, I haven't used LRMs in any serious amount of time since the Kintaro grinding (and boy, that was painful), but I remember quite a bit of the lessons in that.. so I guess I'll be sharing some anecdotal evidence.

It takes bit of discipline... just like a brawler or a sniper... you have to have a proper mindset when using them and when to engage the enemy. Trigger discipline is important as it is really easy to eat up ammo due to targets that aren't getting a clean/good lock (ideally through TAG).

With regards to ammo... for every LRM5 sized volley, you need 1 ton. So, if you have an LRM15 or 3 LRM5s, you need 3 tons. Any more than that is probably overkill. That is my personal tonnage stance on that.

Anyways, I think the real "skill" gap (and I don't mean LRM effectiveness) between LRMs and other weapons is the amount of knowledge you'd have to figure out before you can even make it reasonably useful. Most of that has to do with how the game does you a terrible disservice at tutorials (if you have ****ing reference the Training Grounds vids that are out of date and probably doesn't cover ECM+NARC+TAG+Artemis sufficiently enough, you need to just stop). When you have to tell the LRM player that 180m is the minimum range, you know he's probably just learning to use the damned thing.

So, I do have a bit of sympathy for LRM users, but if you've played the game long enough.. I hope to not see you do really dumb things with LRMs.

It is what it is... I don't run LRM boats in general, nor will I bothered until forced to (by a terribad mech, like the Kintaro or Trebuchet). While I do not generally praise LRM boats, as long as the player's ultimately not being totally useless.. I'm OK with them. I'd rather have more direct fire on my team as a preference... because you could at least practice aiming. With LRMs... it requires a lot of practicing of situational awareness, and not people trying to run their D-DCs with 3 LRM15s in the far back of the team while everyone else is tanking for them.

[CrushLibs]

MDD with 5 LRM-15s with TAG does a decent job due to sheer #s.

LRMs are really bad dishing out damage. Mechs 8 months ago I would kill with 4 LRM-15s in my TW now take 2 times as long to kill with 5 LRM-15s.

I don't play LRMs very often but something changed