89 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Was wanting to like these mechs. Even looked forward to them. Was expecting a lot more out of them than my Zeus, TBH.

And I see people who do well with them. Apparently, I thought a mobile, jumping mech, with a name like Grasshopper, and modest weapon loadouts, would actually be, IDK..... agile, for it's size? Like a Summoner, but with better overall hardpoint access?

Well, it's got the better hardpoints, especially in the Laser Vomit Meta..... but agility? To start with it has the Huge Movement Profile. After busting Russ out on it, he got the Gnomes to do some code wizardry to "artificially" fix that, supposedly I guess it emulates a "Large" mech now, instead of Huge.

Yet despite that, and maybe because of it's incongruous gangly height....it feels immensely sluggish. And while it doesn't jump Highlander bad....... I got 6, count them SIX JJs on my ® Model....... and the thing jumps like a Lead Pig.

Now... I realize every mech is not for everybody. Fighting styles, preferred weapons, etc. For those of you who like and do well in them...what the heck is your secret?

[FupDup]

[Xetelian]

I hear you, I wish they would address poptarting in another way.

PM russ for me, I'm shy.

Russ responded to a post I made once, I nearly crapped my pants!

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 May 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

Well, it's got the better hardpoints, especially in the Laser Vomit Meta.....

The sad part is that this only holds true inside about 300m.

Beyond that range, you can generally make the same or better builds on the SMN, with speed quirks overall better range and the ability to hit 40 damage with no ghost heat at 400+M.

[cSand]

I'm lovin this thing


Granted I can't find a good build for me for the 5H so far...

Max the engine out and build from there I am finding is the best advice

Edited by cSand, 30 May 2015 - 09:43 PM.

[Bloodweaver]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 May 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

For those of you who like and do well in them...what the heck is your secret?

I honestly don't know what to tell you. I've always found the GHRs to be wonderfully agile, since day 1. Maybe you're subconsciously comparing them against other, more naturally agile 'Mechs? They are fairly reminiscent of Shadowhawks, Quickdraws, and Summoners. But they should really be compared against Cataphracts, as that is their weight-class competitor. And whereas those feel like clunky tanks(albeit ones that offset their clunkiness by being able to lay down some serious firepower), the GHRs feel like... Well, I don't really know how to describe it. A(n energy) Blackjack on steroids, maybe?

Edited by Bloodweaver, 30 May 2015 - 09:46 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 30 May 2015 - 09:42 PM, said:

The sad part is that this only holds true inside about 300m.

Beyond that range, you can generally make the same or better builds on the SMN, with speed quirks overall better range and the ability to hit 40 damage with no ghost heat at 400+M.

4 energy hardpoints, and a lot less tonnage for them and DHS, vs 6-8 Energy Harpdoints and and Energy Cooldown and Heat Generation Quirks (ERLL for the 5J, ML for the 5H and PPC focused for the 5N, but with general quirks, too) makes that hard for me to fully accept.

Summoner is certainly more mobile, and IMO, tankier, but I don't see how it LaserVomits better.

Bloodweaver, on 30 May 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

I honestly don't know what to tell you. I've always found the GHRs to be wonderfully agile, since day 1. Maybe you're subconsciously comparing them against other, more naturally agile 'Mechs? They are fairly reminiscent of Shadowhawks, Quickdraws, and Summoners. But they should really be compared against Cataphracts, as that is their weight-class competitor. And whereas those feel like clunky tanks(albeit ones that offset their clunkiness by being able to lay down some serious firepower), the GHRs feel like... Well, I don't really know how to describe it. A(n energy) Blackjack on steroids, maybe?

I have a CTF-0XP that was gifted me by a wonderful player, and I run it with a 280xl.... and that thing is far more agile feeling in my hands than my Hoppers. And I haven't even unlocked double basics on it.

[Carrioncrows]

Map selection.

Some maps you are just cursed, no amount of chicanery is going to overcome the staggering drawback.

But some maps like the Night factory map the Grasshopper does quite well. But aside from the one variant where I have the Max 365 Xl engine in it, almost all of them need to basically burrow into their "Bunker" spots. Like a cat up a tree that hisses at people that come close. Unless they get another cat to crawl up there to dig him out you can usually do quite a bit of damage.

It's just a matter of getting to the few "Trees" that are capable of working.

Oddly enough most of the CW maps work out in it's favor like this.

That being said, that's about as much lemonade as you are going to get.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 30 May 2015 - 09:56 PM.

[Sergeant Random]

Can't speak from experience yet, especially now that my laptop is down.

But, GHR is tall, majority of its hardpoints are waist level, you're probably using Mlas/Mplas to fill out extra E hardpoints. Big engine could give you reasonable speed... Jumpjets.

Um, I imagine... Follow the SHD and GRF jump brawlers to provide the pinpoint laserbarf? The jets could give your strike lance the opportunity to find isolated non-jumpers.

But if your baby is still as sluggish as a pig... is it still on the way to basic?

[CocoaJin]

You have to put a good size engine it. I can't remember if it was the 325 or 350 that makes it magically nimble. And it's XL safe more or less.

Put a PPC on its high mount, MPLs every place else. You'll get all kind of gimme damage while everyone moves to close the gap, then the mobility and MPLs do great once the fight goes brawler range.

Edited by CocoaJin, 30 May 2015 - 10:07 PM.

[Bloodweaver]

cSand, on 30 May 2015 - 09:43 PM, said:

Granted I can't find a good build for me for the 5H so far...

I just built all of them to their specified quirks. This is what I've been running on the -5H since it came out, and it's served me well. I haven't bothered upgrading it yet just because I've been spending C-bills on other things. But, if/when I do, I imagine it'll be a pretty easy modification. You could also drop a couple of heat sinks to convert the LL into an LPL, or bring the engine up to 340. Both options should be pretty viable.

[Templar Dane]

Looks like to me that they were afraid to give it any serious quirks, like they didn't want a faster jumpy thunderbolt.

[cSand]

CocoaJin, on 30 May 2015 - 10:05 PM, said:

You have to put a good size engine it. I can't remember if it was the 325 or 350 that makes it magically nimble. And it's XL safe more or less.

Yea this is true

XL340 in the 5H and 5N, 360 in 5J (91 kph)

[KharnZor]

Don't rely on them to jump you out of trouble, use them to aid in your mobility by using them to skip over obstacles so you maintain that momentum and dont stop moving. Keeping mobile will allow you to use that narrow side profile to make sure your ST's stay protected when you roll damage. For weapons i use medium or medium pulse lasers with a pair of large pulse for punch and try to maintain as little face time as possible.

[cSand]

Bloodweaver, on 30 May 2015 - 10:05 PM, said:

I just built all of them to their specified quirks. This is what I've been running on the -5H since it came out, and it's served me well. I haven't bothered upgrading it yet just because I've been spending C-bills on other things. But, if/when I do, I imagine it'll be a pretty easy modification. You could also drop a couple of heat sinks to convert the LL into an LPL, or bring the engine up to 340. Both options should be pretty viable.

Going to try that tonight, thanks man!

Lately I've been using 2 ER large on the high shoulder mounts, and the rest medium pulse. And... a command console, lol (I run out of slots but have extra tonnage)

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 May 2015 - 09:50 PM, said:

4 energy hardpoints, and a lot less tonnage for them and DHS, vs 6-8 Energy Harpdoints and and Energy Cooldown and Heat Generation Quirks (ERLL for the 5J, ML for the 5H and PPC focused for the 5N, but with general quirks, too) makes that hard for me to fully accept.

Summoner is certainly more mobile, and IMO, tankier, but I don't see how it LaserVomits better.

Inside 300m the GRH can make good use of it's more plentiful hardpoints stacking weapons like MLAS + LPL/LLAS or just lots of MPLs.


Outside 300m, range drop off starts to hurt MLAS at the types of range we see laser vomit builds playing - generally around 400m, thanks to CERMLAS.


Even a really simple build like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2fe07850d137942

Does more than a GRH can generally do at that range, mostly because of hitting the ghost heat wall at the 4th large laser weapon as well as the overall weight investment to go beyond 36 damage at 400-450m.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6fa30b64fc09042

(or alternatively this to avoid GH & be tankier: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a626bd95981287e)

While the GRH looks to have a more impressive alpha, the reality it is really does not want to be constantly firing 4x LLAS alphas for large ghost heat penalties - so it ends up exposing itself more frequently.

Combined with 3x MLAS that will be useful at shorter ranges, but at 450m are already suffering 50% damage loss from drop off.



If the GRH gets in close, it has a lot of strengths over the Summoner - but honestly it's probably a wash at that point with the Summoner being faster, more agile, more JJs, more DHS, and CXL.


I wouldn't say the Summoner is leagues ahead of the GRH, it's more a commentary on the state of IS lasers and laser mechs that don't get any range quirks being way too limited.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 30 May 2015 - 10:16 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

CocoaJin, on 30 May 2015 - 10:05 PM, said:

You have to put a good size engine it. I can't remember if it was the 325 or 350 that makes it magically nimble. And it's XL safe more or less.

Put a PPC on its high mount, MPLs every place else. You'll get all kind of gimme damage while everyone moves to close the gap, then the mobility and MPLs do great once the fight goes brawler range.

engines wont give the JJs more ooomph. If 6 JJs don't launch you...... SMH

[Bloodweaver]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 May 2015 - 09:50 PM, said:

I have a CTF-0XP that was gifted me by a wonderful player, and I run it with a 280xl.... and that thing is far more agile feeling in my hands than my Hoppers. And I haven't even unlocked double basics on it.

I run the same engine on my Ilya, it does well. Thing is, I can get the same firepower out of a GHR with a bigger engine due to all the energy hardpoints.

The -0X is a special case, though. I just checked Smurfy, and it so happens to be the only Cataphract with agility quirks. It gets 12% bonuses to acceleration, deceleration, torso yaw rate, and turning speed! No other Cataphract gets any sort of agility boost. I have a feeling the -0X is going to become one of those "out for C-bills, now with NERFS!" cases.

The GHRs, by contrast, only get a 10% bonus to acceleration. That's acceleration only, no bonus to deceleration. The -5N also gets a 7.5% boost to torso yaw rate. As far as agility, that's the extent of their quirks.

So, that may be why you find the -0X to be such a ballerina on the field. Of course, as noted, the GHRs can offset their lack of agility quirks with huge engines, and do so without losing any potential firepower due to a high volume of energy hardpoints.

[Madcap72]

IDK, plays like a big Shadowhawk for me.

I do pretty average with it, but I have a heck of a lot of fun.


Want to make the hopper fun? Big engine, 7x flamers, and ALL the heatsinks.

[CocoaJin]

KharnZor, on 30 May 2015 - 10:07 PM, said:

Don't rely on them to jump you out of trouble, use them to aid in your mobility by using them to skip over obstacles so you maintain that momentum and dont stop moving. Keeping mobile will allow you to use that narrow side profile to make sure your ST's stay protected when you roll damage. For weapons i use medium or medium pulse lasers with a pair of large pulse for punch and try to maintain as little face time as possible.

It'll jump you out of trouble if you 3-4. I was on Mining Colony, engaged a DWF. Once he turned to engage me, I used my agility to foul his shots and spread damage as I ran and jumped up a level so I could run on top of one of the tunnels, using those generator looking things on top for cover. I re-joined my team on the other side and then moved toward the DWF with the team to finish it off.

The thing is, if you want to JJ, then you have to commit to equipping JJs...you can't half ass it.

Edited by CocoaJin, 30 May 2015 - 10:21 PM.