97 replies to this topic

[Paigan]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 June 2015 - 02:05 AM, said:

Though this is true. I agree with Titan. I'm a Lyran. Why do I need to become an expert at piloiting Drac equipment

I guess it would be okay to pay a comparable amount of CB/MC to have the same effect on one mech instead of three.
But then again: Why would you not just have additional mechs instead of nothing?

If the answer now is "I don't want to spend extra money at all", then please read again what Snaga wrote.



PS:
@OP: "Mecha" - ouch.

Edited by Paigan, 01 June 2015 - 06:04 AM.

[Leiska]

WonderSparks, on 01 June 2015 - 05:56 AM, said:

Honestly? I do not see what all the fuss is about.
So you do not like, say, the Raven variants except for the ECM-toting RVN-3L, for instance. Big deal, if you want that 3L mastered, you have to roll with it; a few eggs must be broken to bake a cake.

What's with this apologist attitude? It's an inconvenience and a significant one for some of us. We're customers, we're not supposed to have to have to deal with annoying design as if there was nothing that could be done about it.

If someone performs waterboarding on you, you aren't thankful that they aren't dismembering you, you are pissed because you're being waterboarded and you want it to stop.

Edited by Leiska, 01 June 2015 - 06:05 AM.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

with this current economy model,3 chassis requirement is really grueling for new players,surely not the worst in f2p-business but the xp- and c-bill rewards should be overall 10-20 percent higher

[Speedy Plysitkos]

WonderSparks, on 01 June 2015 - 05:56 AM, said:

Honestly? I do not see what all the fuss is about.
So you do not like, say, the Raven variants except for the ECM-toting RVN-3L, for instance. Big deal, if you want that 3L mastered, you have to roll with it; a few eggs must be broken to bake a cake.

And just because you can only find ONE variant of a particular 'Mech that you like does not mean someone else hates exactly the same things (what is with people these days always assuming everyone else is on board with them?). Frankly, only when I was new and inexperienced did I have issues with different variants. Once I got my practice in and honed my skills (such as they are) I had zero trouble with anything beyond the matchmaker.

But, if you want to just keep selling everything you "never use because its crap" then go right ahead. Nobody is stopping you, and I rather doubt anyone truly cares.

you completely missed everything in this thread. Np. carry on.

[Almond Brown]

eta

Titannium, on 01 June 2015 - 05:16 AM, said:

good point.

Not really. Using that Logic all any one player would need is just ONE MECH (sell the other 2 to get the Master Slot) with their own personally biased Meta "OPTIMAL" load-out and go. Hell you could get that with the Cadet bonus and some cheap upgrades...

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 June 2015 - 02:05 AM, said:

Though this is true. I agree with Titan. I'm a Lyran. Why do I need to become an expert at piloiting Drac equipment

you don't.

You don't need a AS7-K to skill out Atlases.

[Torgun]

The problem is that the 3 variant thing is all part of adding to the grind of trying to make CBills. That's why they will never ever ever ever remove it.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Titannium, on 01 June 2015 - 02:00 AM, said:

well, i like grind. i know FTP. no problem with that.

What im saying, that its forcing me 3 variants, which i sold immediately, cause i want to play just 1 variant.
Could be managed better.

I've been here since closed beta..

That's your option. You're doing what everyone who's been here does... you get the variants you like, you grind that one variant you just can't make work no matter what, then sell it when the other 2 are good... and move on.

Technically, we shouldn't have any more than a grand total of 4 mechs to ourselves anyway. Very, VERY few people have even 1, let alone 4 in lore... But we're apparently all special snowflakes that are ment to own our own private army's.

[Almond Brown]

Leiska, on 01 June 2015 - 06:03 AM, said:

What's with this apologist attitude? It's an inconvenience and a significant one for some of us. We're customers, we're not supposed to have to have to deal with annoying design as if there was nothing that could be done about it.

If someone performs waterboarding on you, you aren't thankful that they aren't dismembering you, you are pissed because you're being waterboarded and you want it to stop.

The solution you seek is very simple really. If you wish to "make the rules", then you should "make the game". Certainly you could do better right?

Otherwise, your just coming off as a hard done by whining gamer is all. Not new for sure.

[Leiska]

Almond Brown, on 01 June 2015 - 06:19 AM, said:

The solution you seek is very simple really. If you wish to "make the rules", then you should "make the game". Certainly you could do better right?

Otherwise, your just coming off as a hard done by whining gamer is all. Not new for sure.

I could do better F2P design, yes. That's why I'm complaining. If I couldn't, I wouldn't have anything to complain about.

I mean, think about it. How many people skew their spending behaviour (I'm talking about real world currency, not c-bills) because they run out of goals in MWO? I'd bet my nuts that group is vanishingly small compared to the masses of potential customers who simply give up with the game altogether because it takes so much grinding to get any variation into their gameplay.

Mechs are way, way more expensive than anything you can buy in the most successful F2P game of all time, League of Legends. Not only that, PGI wants you to buy what are essentially duplicates of them and everything you put into them.

Then we have the consumables. I don't know if you play LoL, but I can't even imagine the outrage that would ensue if Riot added a power up that you can buy for 30 IP/game (IP is the c-bill equivalent in LoL). People don't want to exchange grind speed for in-game effectiveness. That is a tradeoff that nobody makes with a happy face, yet PGI forced it through. At first they even had the gall to suggest they'd be an MC only thing, which would have cemented MWO firmly into the P2W category.

Edited by Leiska, 01 June 2015 - 06:35 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Leiska, on 01 June 2015 - 06:26 AM, said:

I could do better F2P design, yes. That's why I'm complaining. If I couldn't, I wouldn't have anything to complain about.

So what's your F2P game title and when's it coming out? I'll go play it.

[Paigan]

Leiska, on 01 June 2015 - 06:03 AM, said:

What's with this apologist attitude? It's an inconvenience and a significant one for some of us. We're customers, we're not supposed to have to have to deal with annoying design as if there was nothing that could be done about it.

If someone performs waterboarding on you, you aren't thankful that they aren't dismembering you, you are pissed because you're being waterboarded and you want it to stop.

This is so dumb I don't know where to begin.
- Corporations People need to earn money. To, you know, eat and stuff. You might know that from your own life.
- Money that other people (sometimes called "customers". You can also say "supporters") have to pay them.
- If a service is basically completely free, the people offering the service must devise some way to "motivate" people to pay them money nonetheless.
- A little cumbersome ingame-redundancy is a VERY, VERY, VERY soft way of doing so.

If you want the people offering the free service to make it as pleasent as possible, one thing would be inevitable:
Hardly anyone would pay any money. The people offering the service would go broke. The service would stop.

There are people WORKING for you to offer you the service and they do that basically for FREE.
Comparing that to being waterboarded as a customer should result in an immediate ban and a friendly suggestion to end your life.




TBH, grinding in MWO is hilariously short and easy anyway.
In Eve-Online, you have to wait for MONTHs to being able to pilot the big stuff. YEARS even for capital ships.
And you can't even speed it up by ingame actions. You MUST wait. Oh, and you MUST pay, monthly fee.
In Mass Effect 3, it took me like forever to get the last ultra-rare weapon of the devilish random-number-generator store. Even paying money only gives more tickets for the devilish lottery, but NOT a guaranteed weapon.

In MWO, all you have to do is play for a few days which you would have done anyway and bingo, you're "Master".
Child's play.
I say we need bigger, longer, more complex skill trees (ideally logarithmically open-ended).
I say being "Master" in one chassis must actually MEAN something that not all players can get easily but only the really dedicated ones.

Edited by Paigan, 01 June 2015 - 06:37 AM.

[El Bandito]

Flash Frame, on 01 June 2015 - 06:18 AM, said:

I've been here since closed beta..

That's your option. You're doing what everyone who's been here does... you get the variants you like, you grind that one variant you just can't make work no matter what, then sell it when the other 2 are good... and move on.

Technically, we shouldn't have any more than a grand total of 4 mechs to ourselves anyway. Very, VERY few people have even 1, let alone 4 in lore... But we're apparently all special snowflakes that are ment to own our own private army's.

The amount of mechs in our garage doesn't matter. What matters is the amount we can take out per match. The most right now is... you guessed it, four.

[Leiska]

cdlord, on 01 June 2015 - 06:28 AM, said:

So what's your F2P game title and when's it coming out? I'll go play it.

I said F2P design, not a whole game. This is an old and tired straw man argument.

Paigan, on 01 June 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

This is so dumb I don't know where to begin.
- Corporations People need to earn money. To, you know, eat and stuff. You might know that from your own life.

Holy macaroni, Batman. I'm suggesting ways to get more people to invest money in MWO, not less. You completely missed the point. Riot isn't a charity any more than PGI is, yet it offers much faster variety progression and lower real currency prices. They're making **** tons of money selling cheap yet impressive cosmetics and champs that are fairly quick to earn with in-game currency. How many $30 mechs does PGI sell? Not very many, I'm sure.

A max price point champion costs 6300 IP. You get ~100 IP per game depending on win/loss and game length, +150 IP for the first win of the day. Once you have that champ, you're instantly ready for comeptitive. You don't have to buy it several times or re-buy all the runes you previously bought for another champ that wants the same setup. You don't have to grind the champ out before it's actually in viable condition for ranked games.

So much of MWO is getting there that you get very little time actually being there. It's the complete opposite of LoL, where a game is its isolated, and balanced, event and the progression is something that just happens on the side.

Edited by Leiska, 01 June 2015 - 10:27 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Leiska, on 01 June 2015 - 07:06 AM, said:

I said F2P design, not a whole game. This is an old and tired straw man argument.

So is yours.....

[jaxjace]

Hey they didnt put 300+ mechs in here for you to use... ONE. I like the 3 chasis grind, it removes a portion of the arcade element and provides immersion. Chances are you will find 3 that you can play well, 1 or 2 will always be your favorite out of the 3 but you should try to choose YOUR best 3. Pokemech. Gotta, master, them, all.

[Leiska]

cdlord, on 01 June 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:

So is yours.....

Mine wasn't an argument. It was a claim.

Here's an actual argument: Riot is making tons of money with their, comparatively, very subtly monetized product, therefore, Riot is probably doing something right. PGI uses a much more heavily monetized model and they're not doing so hot. They're probably not doing as much right as Riot is.

If PGI wants MWO to be a niché product, so be it, but if they're hoping for mass appeal, they better not expect it as long as the game presents such hurdles for newcomers to overcome.

Edited by Leiska, 01 June 2015 - 07:30 AM.

[jaxjace]

Leiska, on 01 June 2015 - 07:28 AM, said:

Mine wasn't an argument. It was a claim.

Here's an actual argument: Riot is making tons of money with their, comparatively, very subtly monetized product, therefore, Riot is probably doing something right. PGI uses a much more heavily monetized model and they're not doing so hot. They're probably not doing as much right as Riot is.

If PGI wants MWO to be a niché product, so be it, but if they're hoping for mass appeal, they better not expect it as long as the game presents such hurdles for newcomers to overcome.

Its not supposed to be easy. Some of us like hurdles and challenges. otherwise we would play My Little Pony Online. **** myself im masochistic to myself in this game. played from 2012, have 200 mechs and have XLs on all but a handful, 1.45 KDR Never used a module.

[CDLord HHGD]

Leiska, on 01 June 2015 - 07:28 AM, said:

Mine wasn't an argument. It was a claim.

Here's an actual argument: Riot is making tons of money with their, comparatively, very subtly monetized product, therefore, Riot is probably doing something right. PGI uses a much more heavily monetized model and they're not doing so hot. They're probably not doing as much right as Riot is.

If PGI wants MWO to be a niché product, so be it, but if they're hoping for mass appeal, they better not expect it as long as the game presents such hurdles for newcomers to overcome.

Mechwarrior IS a niche market.... And I haven't seen PGI's earnings reports so I cannot say for a fact how well they are doing. I know they do not want to fail and since this is 100% their show now, if there was a problem, they'd fix it. Do you have a link that backs your "not doing so hot" claim? You made the claim, it's on you to prove it.

[Almond Brown]

cdlord, on 01 June 2015 - 06:28 AM, said:

So what's your F2P game title and when's it coming out? I'll go play it.

Me too! Well, OK, if it has BattleMechs in it. I might try it out. LOL!