97 replies to this topic

[LordKnightFandragon]

Nocifer Deathblade, on 01 June 2015 - 05:31 AM, said:

Try World of Tanks, World of Warplanes, World of Warships and come back tell me if their grind is easy as well. Their games are comparable with this game.. PVP arena type of game.. Lots lots of grind. It took me 2 years of grinding just Maus crew skill to 6th skill set and it still is LONG way to go to master all skills. Lol.

LOL and just like MWO, their skills past like 1 and 2 are kinda redundant. BIA and Repair? Beyond that its just redundant.

[CyclonerM]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 June 2015 - 02:05 AM, said:

Why do I need to become an expert at piloiting Drac equipment

To know your enemy's equipment and their strenghts and weaknesses?

[Joseph Mallan]

CyclonerM, on 01 June 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

To know your enemy's equipment and their strenghts and weaknesses?

How do I learn that by tricking it out my way?

I'm a Machining Specialist at work.

Thats a Toolmaker that runs One CnC Machine and can make it do the impossible. A Toolmaker can use the machine. they can use it with skill. But the Specialist, Has it Mastered.

[Almond Brown]

cdlord, on 01 June 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:

So is yours.....

And he also appears to lack a F2P Design Doc...

[CocoaJin]

The 3 mech rule for tier 2 is a minor grind compared to most games in the genre, like Woes of Tanks. The 3 in class for tier 3 module expansion is a bit more of a grind, but it's a one time steep hill climb for each class...but by then, many of us have settled into a weight class or two we really want to elite.

Now, I could see their being an option for substituting the 3 mech rule for tier 2 access into an inflated 1 mech rule...but that convenience should come at an additional cost in grind since you are bypassing the c-bill sink/MC incentive.

[masCh]

Why do you feel forced to buy 3 variants?

You can still play and perform top of your match with only one variant unlocked.

You can't know your car until you've tried the same car with different engine, or your same car with different suspension, or your same car with different brakes. You start appreciating the roles and become a master at recognizing them.

[Lugh]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 June 2015 - 02:56 AM, said:

That would be true for driving in general. But how does it help me be a master in the truck I drive? It doesn't in my experience.

If you have experience driving a car with a gear box, then you can easily translate that in to experience driving a truck with a gear box. Knowing how to downshift to use engine RPMs to help you brake the truck is something else that translates well.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Paigan, on 01 June 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

I say we need bigger, longer, more complex skill trees (ideally logarithmically open-ended).
I say being "Master" in one chassis must actually MEAN something that not all players can get easily but only the really dedicated ones.

Id be for that one lol.

Where each skill tree is almost as big and indepth as Path of Exile....lol....thousands of stones to click there lol.

[shadoxhunter]

I agree the grind is a pain. It made sense when we had only a few mechs and pgi wanted a system that would keep us busy. But now its getting in the way of playing the mechs I really want to play. I would gladly trade the three mech requirements for increased xp costs for the upgrades.
As for the comments about cbill grind and mech bays being mc only. I feel that PGI has gotten better about this with the events. Now some of the events have had their issues but generally it feels like getting moneys is a bit easier.
This is just my opinion as a weekend warrior.

[Leiska]

cdlord, on 01 June 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

Mechwarrior IS a niche market.... And I haven't seen PGI's earnings reports so I cannot say for a fact how well they are doing. I know they do not want to fail and since this is 100% their show now, if there was a problem, they'd fix it. Do you have a link that backs your "not doing so hot" claim? You made the claim, it's on you to prove it.

Are you honestly suggesting that PGI might have similar player numbers, revenue and growth as Riot? I don't need to know the exact numbers to tell you that MWO is insignificant in comparison.

[Revis Volek]

Leiska, on 01 June 2015 - 06:26 AM, said:

I could do better F2P design, yes. That's why I'm complaining. If I couldn't, I wouldn't have anything to complain about.

I mean, think about it. How many people skew their spending behaviour (I'm talking about real world currency, not c-bills) because they run out of goals in MWO? I'd bet my nuts that group is vanishingly small compared to the masses of potential customers who simply give up with the game altogether because it takes so much grinding to get any variation into their gameplay.

Mechs are way, way more expensive than anything you can buy in the most successful F2P game of all time, League of Legends. Not only that, PGI wants you to buy what are essentially duplicates of them and everything you put into them.

Then we have the consumables. I don't know if you play LoL, but I can't even imagine the outrage that would ensue if Riot added a power up that you can buy for 30 IP/game (IP is the c-bill equivalent in LoL). People don't want to exchange grind speed for in-game effectiveness. That is a tradeoff that nobody makes with a happy face, yet PGI forced it through. At first they even had the gall to suggest they'd be an MC only thing, which would have cemented MWO firmly into the P2W category.

Riot also is a much larger company, has a bigger player base for their game, created a game with a large player base in general (Mechwarrior is a very niche franchise and game as a whole). Not to mention its a new game not one an IP someone is digging up from the dirt like and artifact.

You should go take a look at WoT....Very similar pricing(mwo is cheaper actually) League of Legends is also not even in the same realm as this game in many ways. Player population, Game type, etc. etc. You are comparing apples to oranges, yea they are both fruit but the comparison pretty much stops there.

I love when people try to make this connection...this is NOT the same model. Just because they are F2P doesn't mean they are the same World of Tanks is a FAR closer comparison and this game is in fact cheaper like i said

I also have YET to see your way better F2P design....

Leiska, on 01 June 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

Are you honestly suggesting that PGI might have similar player numbers, revenue and growth as Riot? I don't need to know the exact numbers to tell you that MWO is insignificant in comparison.

That is not what he said at all...maybe stop being so defensive?

He said (First few words) MWO is a NICHE MARKET (go see definition if that escapes you) and they DONT WANT TO FAIL. So you price it to the point where you make money and keep the lights and servers on but are not bleeding you customer dry. Might be higher then other but their over head is i bet rather expensive vs the money they make. Small company problems which no one expects everyone to understand. But if you are halfway impressed with the product its softens the blow to your wallet some am i wrong?

But it seems you answered you own question, Riot is much bigger and more successful THUS allowing them to drop pricing on itmes that they KNOW will make them money. Proven products that sell themselves...

IN a relative manner though, yes PGI makes, RELATIVE TO THEIR SIZE, as much as riot i bet or it would not be a successful business model.

Edited by DarthRevis, 01 June 2015 - 10:56 AM.

[Burktross]

SnagaDance, on 01 June 2015 - 01:50 AM, said:

It's a FTP game. FTP games almost require some kind of 'grind'. You can avoid/lessen such a grind by spending actual money. You now help to fund and develop the game instead of it dying.

Thank you for reading this public service announcement on the nature of FTP games.

Have a nice day.

Heh, I have a mere couple of chassis mastered in my 70 something mechs-- still quite the grind.

[Suko]

Titannium, on 01 June 2015 - 02:00 AM, said:

well, i like grind. i know FTP. no problem with that.

What im saying, that its forcing me 3 variants, which i sold immediately, cause i want to play just 1 variant.
Could be managed better.

I remember mentioning this 2.5 years back (my God, I can't believe it's been that long). I understand WHY they do it, but I think I'd prefer a method of leveling a mech that would let you do it without all 3 mechs. Perhaps you could grind up to master level with only the single mech, but it would take 500% longer than if you did it the regular way.

[CDLord HHGD]

Leiska, on 01 June 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

Are you honestly suggesting that PGI might have similar player numbers, revenue and growth as Riot? I don't need to know the exact numbers to tell you that MWO is insignificant in comparison.

Just like Tesla is insignificant compared to GM right! Just because you are smaller doesn't mean you're insignificant. Bigger =/= better every time. If you stick to relative comparisons, PGI is no better or worse off than Riot for the market segment each is targeting.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Once you have driven three you can see what fits your playstyle best rather than chase meta. Couple of variants that are not popular are my favorites. I would not have known if not for the grind.

Being said I have three urbies sitting on the shelf I have to go through but they are all so bad. I dropped in the one I am basicing this weekend and got a few laughs. One match I dropped with another urbie and the dude freaked. Said he hadn't seen another one all day.

[Pjwned]

Leveling 3 variants of a mech for the mech tree is a major reason why I don't play as much because I hate grinding stupid, crappy mechs that I don't want.

This has been complained about for a long time though and PGI hasn't done anything about it, so it's obviously not a very high priority issue for them and it probably never will be.

Edited by Pjwned, 01 June 2015 - 12:22 PM.

[stalima]

think of it this way, if you never used the older model of a vehicle, then you would never know the advantage/disadvantages of the newer model of the same vehicle and therefore it is physically impossible to truely "master" piloting your favorite until youve used several models in order to know why it is you like the one that you do.

Does it go faster? handle better? is its firepower more efficient? these things you will never understand without piloting more than one and thus can not call yourself a master or even an elite.

[Jabilo]

For those of you who have been here since the beginning you know the glacial pace of change in MWO...

Russ probably agrees with you that the 3 x mastery system needs to go and that both mech and pilot progression needs a complete overhaul.

Don't worry, it is on a to do list somewhere at PGI and will be looked at right after ECM - in 2018.

[Pjwned]

stalima, on 01 June 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

think of it this way, if you never used the older model of a vehicle, then you would never know the advantage/disadvantages of the newer model of the same vehicle and therefore it is physically impossible to truely "master" piloting your favorite until youve used several models in order to know why it is you like the one that you do.

Does it go faster? handle better? is its firepower more efficient? these things you will never understand without piloting more than one and thus can not call yourself a master or even an elite.

I don't know if you're addressing people in general or mostly just me (because sometimes people address the previous post without quotes) but personally I could not possibly care less about rationalizing the mech tree.

For anybody who has or is or will ask me in particular, I do not care at all about any possible reason whatsoever for needing to "master" 3 variants, because in the end it's a worthless, tedious, crappy grindfest, and that's the only thing it accomplishes. If nobody cares then it doesn't matter much, but that's my opinion if anybody cares about my opinion.

Edited by Pjwned, 01 June 2015 - 12:40 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

For anybody who has or is or will ask me in particular, I do not care at all about any possible reason whatsoever for needing to "master" 3 variants, because in the end it's a worthless, tedious, crappy grindfest, and that's the only thing it accomplishes.

It somewhat diversifies the mechs used in games. Otherwise everyone would always use the same variants. And the underdog variants would never get used.

That is really the only positive though... and I dont think its enough of a positive to justify forcing people to level up three variants to master a mech.

Edited by Khobai, 01 June 2015 - 12:39 PM.