73 replies to this topic

[Summon3r]

Stoneblade, on 02 June 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

CW is "Hardcore" mode. Spawncamping and Light Rushes are viable tactics. But they are just that: TACTICS. If your Tactic isn't as effective to counter, then please scream at PGI that it is OP because you lost. They apparently listen to whiners, not people who play CW.

about the only thing your supposed "cw hardcore mode" has done is bore people to the point of not playing

[xengk]

Quote

All drop ships will now hover over the drop area 4 times longer than they use to providing cover to the 'mechs they drop off. Also all drop ships now carry the same 12 ERLL load out and have weapon quirks to shorten cooldown and laser duration. Oh and they will aim for the Center Torso only.

The dropship will stay 4 times longer than currently.
I believe currently the dropship only lingers for 2 seconds to drop off mech before leaving.
So this will increase linger time to 8 seconds, +2 for entering and leaving dropzone, for total of 10 seconds.

What worries me are the 12 CT only quirked ERLL that never miss.

[Yokaiko]

xengk, on 02 June 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

The dropship will stay 4 times longer than currently.
I believe currently the dropship only lingers for 2 seconds to drop off mech before leaving.
So this will increase linger time to 8 seconds, +2 for entering and leaving dropzone, for total of 10 seconds.

What worries me are the 12 CT only quirked ERLL that never miss.

Its going to make it near impossible to attack, specially with lighter mechs....specially for pugs.

[Mystere]

From other threads:

Mystere, on 01 June 2015 - 03:42 PM, said:

****ing whiners! Bloody ****ing whiners!

Now lights have been made more useless and we will also now have, for all practical purposes, invincibility, even if only temporary.

****ing whiners! I blame all of these bloody ****ing whiners!

<And that's coming from someone who only drops solo! >

I think I should no longer delay playing The WItcher 3.

Mystere, on 01 June 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

I suspect they're going to be almost inaccessible. And if players insist on going there anyway, they will find the place godly invulnerable and even godly more deadly.

Whiners! ****ing whiners!

And specifically with regard to counterattack mode:

Mystere, on 01 June 2015 - 03:59 PM, said:

I bet you nobody at PGI thought of that. <smh>

[Xiphias]

Widowmaker1981, on 02 June 2015 - 06:59 AM, said:

Im sorry, but that wont happen.

When im playing, we always kill all 48 mechs, we want the C-Bills etc.

And the spawn camping issue that needed solving was the defenders getting camped by teams that have just pushed into the base, on certain maps (sulphur, emerald being the main culprits) and the only fix that was needed was to move the spawns somewhere sensible, like on Hellebore. If you get spawn camped as a defender on Hellbore you had already lost, not so on Sulphur or Emerald.

I definitely agree that the spawn locations are a problem on some maps and I have no problem with some dropship defences. Hellbore is a good example of a drop zone done correctly. Yes, you can push it, but it's going to be costly to do so and at least give the defenders a chance to pick up some kills. Maps like Sulfur and Taga are terrible and put the spawns in easily camped locations, in the case of Sulfur putting them between the attackers and the objective.

If there are other objectives (and they are rewarded properly) teams won't be as inclined to camp the dropzones. It won't completely eliminate it, but with decent spawn locations it shouldn't be a problem. If the drop zones are properly designed there is much less need for ridiculously powerful dropships.

The problem with buffing the dropships without adding some other way to end the map is that it is going to result in too many players camping. It's already an issue with the new map where you are practically forced to take jump jet capable mechs to flush out the last few defenders who are either discos or refuse to leave the spawn. Honestly, if someone is still in the spawn after a couple minutes the dropships should probably just shoot them too.

sdsnowbum, on 02 June 2015 - 07:01 AM, said:

The thing is spawn camping is occurring to defenders in normal Invasion matches as well. Teams ignore the objectives and wait to kill each and every one of the 48 defenders. Sometimes they have to wait several minutes.

Given that when this happens the defender is almost always a team of mostly solos getting camped made it that much worse.

If nothing else I think we will see more people willing to defend after this, which is sorely needed in CW.

There are two issues with spawn camping, bad spawn design and lack of ways to end a match. The first I agree needs to be addressed, Sulfur being the worst offender. This "should" be addressed if the roadmap is correct. With good locations the dropships don't need to be as powerful.

The second issue needs to be addressed by objectives to force both teams to actually fight. If you'd don't have this component buffing the dropships/spawns will only result in more teams camping in the drop zone.

[Revis Volek]

PunisherMark, on 02 June 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

I call bull#@$ on never been spawncamped. Unless you are from -MS-.

I have never once been spawn camped either...they may get there and kill a guy or two but then we push them out.

Since when did MS become some GOD at MWO? They are not that great they are just huge.

Edited by DarthRevis, 02 June 2015 - 08:52 AM.

[Shredhead]

[Davers]

Stoneblade, on 02 June 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

CW is "Hardcore" mode. Spawncamping and Light Rushes are viable tactics. But they are just that: TACTICS. If your Tactic isn't as effective to counter, then please scream at PGI that it is OP because you lost. They apparently listen to whiners, not people who play CW.

It's only Hardcore Mode for pugs.

[YaKillinMeSmalls]

Figures that NKVA would be mad about anti-spawncamping changes. RIP 'good duel'.

[Harvey Batchall Kerensky at Law]

YaKillinMeSmalls, on 02 June 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

Figures that NKVA would be mad about anti-spawncamping changes. RIP 'good duel'.

Lol if that's what you get out of this

[Lyoto Machida]

Stoneblade, on 02 June 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

CW is &quot;Hardcore&quot; mode. Spawncamping and Light Rushes are viable tactics. But they are just that: TACTICS. If your Tactic isn't as effective to counter, then please scream at PGI that it is OP because you lost. They apparently listen to whiners, not people who play CW.

Well, the low CW population is a plus in that regard. PGI has the time to actually listen to each and every opinion of the 106 people who play CW or whatever.

[Chef Kerensky]

YaKillinMeSmalls, on 02 June 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

Figures that NKVA would be mad about anti-spawncamping changes. RIP 'good duel'.

It's another in a long list of recent changes that have continued to make CW less and less fun to play. If you think anti-spawncamping measures are going to help you beat a 12-man keep dreaming. If your hope is to drive all the 12-man teams out of the game then mission accomplished I guess, as evidenced by the current CW population.

Edited by Chef Kerensky, 03 June 2015 - 03:44 AM.

[YCSLiesmith]

Widowmaker1981, on 02 June 2015 - 05:18 AM, said:

I do forsee spiteful bad losers hiding in their spawn to deny the enemy team c-bills, but spawn camping does need to go, so maybe this is the way. depends how its implemented.

And that is coming from someone who has literally never been spawncamped in this game, i know how to avoid it and really, it only happens to outmatched teams. It still needs to go, terrible mechanic.

spawn camping didn't need to go, it was the natural outcome when you match a good team against a terrible team. The solution was to get good. I never saw a good team get spawn camped.

The only problem was on one map where you can attack the enemy's spawn almost immediately, allowing a momentary advantage to turn into overwhelming supremacy. If you put some distance between two spawn points so that the attacking team must advance across a killing zone before camping then it's totally fine. A team that can't kill more than 2 of a 12 man wave with the advantage of a kill corridor isn't going to win a fight no matter what you do.

PunisherMark, on 02 June 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

I call bull#@$ on never been spawncamped. Unless you are from -MS-.

[redacted]

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 03 June 2015 - 04:17 PM.
Unconstructive/insults

[KodiakGW]

Chef Kerensky, on 03 June 2015 - 03:43 AM, said:

It's another in a long list of recent changes that have continued to make CW less and less fun to play. If you think anti-spawncamping measures are going to help you beat a 12-man keep dreaming. If your hope is to drive all the 12-man teams out of the game then mission accomplished I guess, as evidenced by the current CW population.

Sniff, sniff. We'll all miss you boys in CW.

BTW - I think PGI should have had the ships focus on shooting legs instead of center torsos.

[Widowmaker1981]

YCSLiesmith, on 03 June 2015 - 04:42 AM, said:

spawn camping didn't need to go, it was the natural outcome when you match a good team against a terrible team. The solution was to get good. I never saw a good team get spawn camped.

The only problem was on one map where you can attack the enemy's spawn almost immediately, allowing a momentary advantage to turn into overwhelming supremacy. If you put some distance between two spawn points so that the attacking team must advance across a killing zone before camping then it's totally fine. A team that can't kill more than 2 of a 12 man wave with the advantage of a kill corridor isn't going to win a fight no matter what you do.

Well, there are edge case situations.. like for example a 4 man of very good players + 8 random badpugs vs a 12 man of ok players. Without spawncamping the elites can often carry the pugs to a win against the 12 man, but if its sulphur or Tiaga for example and the 4 man get stuck in alpha lance with no company command (like i said, edge cases), then spawncamping can totally turn it around.

If you ask me, no changes to dropships at all were needed, BUT all maps should be looking to Hellbore for inspiration on where to place the defender spawns. Every other map (barring Vitric Forge) has issues with attackers in the correct place to kill the objectives having defenders drop right on top of them, obviously leading to them getting spawnraped, and that is bad game mechanics.

Plus its too common a tactic now, it would be nice to be able to attack or defend a gate OTHER than alpha on Sulphur, and i shouldnt be seeing teams making a beeline for the enemy spawn on every map i play (however foolish that idea is for them sometimes).

What i dont see is a problem with stopping it happening. I want fun games, not shoot the pinata as it drops from the sky games anyway.

[IlKhan Prepaid Kerensky]

The whole dropping off in a ship thing just from a gameplay perspective is awful. Why even have such distance from the teams if the 2 minute walk to the gate is EXACTLY the same experience every time. Why not just drop everyone right in front of the gates if these dropships can melt **** so badly? The approach to the objective might matter if there were options and choices available but all gates play basically the same. It's been awful the whole time but PGI is only capable of fixing their fixes so this is where we're going.

Fortunately there are a lot of mad and bad units that still have a lot of heart for us to break.

Edited by Prepaid Lenin, 03 June 2015 - 05:25 AM.

[sdsnowbum]

Chef Kerensky, on 03 June 2015 - 03:43 AM, said:

It's another in a long list of recent changes that have continued to make CW less and less fun to play. If you think anti-spawncamping measures are going to help you beat a 12-man keep dreaming. If your hope is to drive all the 12-man teams out of the game then mission accomplished I guess, as evidenced by the current CW population.

You really mean to say the ability to spawn camp is something that made CW more fun for you? Mind-boggling.

[Revis Volek]

So much butt hurt over a BS tactic being taken away.....

PGI has already stated this along with light rushes is not the intended way to play this mode. So back to the drawing board for the one trick pony units.

YCSLiesmith, on 01 June 2015 - 03:21 PM, said:

After ten thousand years I'm finally free!

Dropship! I summon you! time to eject-kill Earth

i honestly can't wait to get everyone clumped together and voluntarily eject, summoning a dropship that will destroy the entire opposing team with magnificent alpha strikes to the rear torso (obviously piloted by notorious NKVA cheaters.)

Why not just play the mode as intended instead of trying to find some exploit to give you a leg up? Might tone done that Cheater label you are getting as well.

Edited by DarthRevis, 03 June 2015 - 10:02 AM.

[Chef Kerensky]

sdsnowbum, on 03 June 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

You really mean to say the ability to spawn camp is something that made CW more fun for you? Mind-boggling.

Coordinating fire on specific mechs to bring them down before they become a threat? Cycling mechs forward based on their remaining health in order to let healthy mechs tank enemy fire and dropship lasers? Winning by a huge margin by virtue of working together and never easing up pressure on the opposing team? Yes, it was a lot of fun.

[DustySkunk]

YCSLiesmith, on 03 June 2015 - 04:42 AM, said:

spawn camping didn't need to go, it was the natural outcome when you match a good team against a terrible team. The solution was to get good. I never saw a good team get spawn camped.

The only problem was on one map where you can attack the enemy's spawn almost immediately, allowing a momentary advantage to turn into overwhelming supremacy. If you put some distance between two spawn points so that the attacking team must advance across a killing zone before camping then it's totally fine. A team that can't kill more than 2 of a 12 man wave with the advantage of a kill corridor isn't going to win a fight no matter what you do.



lol bad player spotted

YCSLiesmith is 100% right. This is the natural progression when one team totally outclasses another and is only to be expected in a game mode like CW where there is no matchmaking elements in place to ensure an even game. All is working as designed and I'm totally okay with it.

For anyone that hasn't experienced spawn camping, just PUG for long enough and you will. Eventually you'll land with a team of total randoms. No one will be on voice coms, your team will scatter like roaches in a spotlight, and more than likely some dude will be on chat saying "what does LRM stand for?" If you're really lucky there may even be a disco or two on your team. When you pull up the scoreboard the other team will be a well organized 12 man unit of some distinction. Then you know that you've made it, and spawn camping is only minutes away. It doesn't matter how good you are, you can't carry 11 other guys. When it does happen, know that you are fulfilling the natural order of things.

If you've never experienced spawn camping, it sucks... there's no question about it. When I first started playing in CW it happened to me on my second game ever. I was heated. Dying as you hit the ground with no way to fight back isn't fun for anyone. However I've come to realize that it only happens when the game is essentially lost already and if I'm PUGing, I resign myself to the possibility that any given game could end that way.

CW can and should remain the arena of organized teams. Not necessarily units, but teams... That is, people on coms that are trying to work together. It is not the place for PUGs. Yes, PUGs get left out of the fun, but I think that another game mode can replace CW for them: PvE. PUGs just aren't generally going to do well against teams. We saw that back when groups could drop in the solo queue and they dominated. It was true then and it is true now.

Edited by DustySkunk, 03 June 2015 - 10:17 AM.